WHOOO.....HOOOOOO!!!!!!! First thread in 'drag racing' forum to bust 100 replies. Awesome guys!!

 

[quote]Originally posted by Trevor D:
<strong>
If the other guy breaks, it IS a win, so long as you can make a pass down the track. If you don't see it as a "legitimate win", then fine. You can't call it a "draw" because you don't get to race your opponent.
As for bracket racing being **** to race and watch, that's your opinion. I personally love it because the quicker car does not dominate; the better driver does. I've NEVER let off or braked when I ran my Chevy II in super pro. WHY? It's because all of the racers were so good that there was NO ROOM to play on the big end. Running .02 over your dial could very easily put you on the trailer. I can't tell you the number of races that I've lost and won by .005 or less. Besides, have you ever tried to back-pedal when a 7-second dragster is chasing you down? <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">
If you can break out, then it's a bracket race. You can call it cheating in an index class or just a disqualification in a bracket class. Either way, you break out and lose.

[ November 16, 2001: Message edited by: Trevor D ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hear, hear! Bracket racing is MORE fun for the spectators, because nearly all races are close races. And David can kill Goliath.

About lifting, braking, etc, in brackets, sometimes you have to if you're an amateur. I used to drag race motorcycles against Automatic cars. You CAN'T beat them on consistency. So you dial-in about 0.2 slower than you run, and pace them through the lights, staying 1 foot ahead. If you beat them on RT you will win, but it's the only chance you've got.

Before I started doing that, I'd breakout as my bike got quicker with evening air. Bikes are more sensitive to temp. To change your dialin, you've got to go into the tower, because their isn't room to write your dial-in on the bike.

 

I guess the crossover delay box racers had to hope you were an honest guy, McRat!

 

ok im confused. some one SIMPLY walk me through a bracket v. an index v. whatever else you guys are talking about. Im going to the next event, and im racing damnit.

Ryan

 

[quote]Originally posted by RyanJackson:
<strong>ok im confused. some one SIMPLY walk me through a bracket v. an index v. whatever else you guys are talking about. Im going to the next event, and im racing damnit.

Ryan</strong><hr></blockquote>

Bracket Racing - Two unequal cars are handicapped against each other to equalize times at the finish line. The "tree" is set up with a delay that allows the slower car to go first. The delay is equal to the difference in "Dial-in" times. Each car must have a dial-in time written clearly on the window, that's how the tower sets the tree. If you go quicker than your dial-in, you lose. If both go quicker than their dial-in, the car that "breaks out" by least amount of time wins.

 

The very, very simple explanation is that in a bracket race, you select your own dial-in (the ET you predict you will run) based on a number of time trials and you can change your dial-in from round to round. You are allowed to spray, hit the brakes, lift off the gas, or do anything short of cross the center line to run as close as possible to your dial-in without running quicker than your dial-in. Running quicker is called "breaking out" and results in disqualification. When you line up, the slower car in the pair is given a head start advantage based on the difference in the dial-ins so that you are more or less dead-even at the finish line and driver skill (your reaction time vs. your ability to judge the stripe) determines the winner.
Index racing is where you race a class with an index (dial-in) that is pre-set and does not change for the duration of eliminations. Both cars leave at the same time and whoever gets to the finish line first without going under the index wins. Again, the driver's skill in reaction time plays a big role. In most index races (at least the 4 or 5 different sanctions of indexed racing I've done), you are still allowed to do whatever necessary to run as close to the index without going under. If there was a rule against it, I was neither made aware of it or enforced for breaking it.
John is proposing a class where cars run indexes set at half second increments. If your car is capable of say, 12.20's, you'd run the 12.00 to 12.50 index, meaning that you would be allowed to run as fast as you can, but no faster than 12.000 and you would not be allowed to hit the brakes or lift off the gas to insure an over the index run.

I hope I made that as clear as mud for you and explained it as objectively as possible.

[ November 16, 2001: Message edited by: Kristi ]</p>

 

Indexed Racing - It is a form of bracket racing where the tree is set equal for both racers.
The classes are broken into time segments:

Example:
A - 9.00-9.99
B - 10.00-10.99
C - 11.00-11.99
D - 12.00-12.99
E - 13.00-13.99
F - All Honda Cars <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">

You pick an index class to run in. Your goal is to run as quick as you can without "breaking-out" into the next class up. Then you lose.

 

ok cool, thats what i though on all accounts. i see what everyones saying now. thanks. Ill be honest, i dont care. it all seems pretty similar to me, at least at my level. ok gotta start a new thread.

 

Class racing - "Heads Up" drag racing. You've seen this type on TV. Cars are broken up in different classes, with different rules. Specific rules are written down before the event, usually in a rulebook. They govern what modification can be done to the car, and what safety equipment is required.

 

Call it irony or timing, but here's a little excerpt from the January 2002 issue of Popular Hot Rodding. The article is over the 2001 NFRA event in Bowling Green.

"EFI racers in this country that want to go at it heads-up have it tough. Sure, NSCA and NMCA offer EFI classes, but they run on an index system that boils down to glorified bracket racing." <img src="images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0">

 

<img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

 

Hehehehehe <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">

 

[quote]Originally posted by McRat:
<strong>Street Racing - Similiar to Class Racing, except with no class <img src="images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> . One car is given 2 lengths and a "go", and the other car must have cousin Vinnie in the passenger seat. A good friend of one of the racers (Unknown to the other driver), starts the race by winking at his friend and giving him the jump.

The winner is determined by flipping a coin at the end.

Rules are also determined at the end of the race with the traditional fist-fight.

[ November 16, 2001: Message edited by: McRat ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

ROTFLMAO! <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0"> Good one McRat!

 

[quote]Originally posted by Trevor D:
<strong>
"EFI racers in this country that want to go at it heads-up have it tough. Sure, NSCA and NMCA offer EFI classes, but they run on an index system that boils down to glorified bracket racing." <img src="images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0"> </strong><hr></blockquote>

OK, OK, I give up darn it! <img src="images/icons/grin.gif" border="0">

 

[quote]Originally posted by Kristi:
<strong>The very, very simple explanation is that in a bracket race, you select your own dial-in (the ET you predict you will run) based on a number of time trials and you can change your dial-in from round to round. You are allowed to spray, hit the brakes, lift off the gas, or do anything short of cross the center line to run as close as possible to your dial-in without running quicker than your dial-in. Running quicker is called "breaking out" and results in disqualification. When you line up, the slower car in the pair is given a head start advantage based on the difference in the dial-ins so that you are more or less dead-even at the finish line and driver skill (your reaction time vs. your ability to judge the stripe) determines the winner.
Index racing is where you race a class with an index (dial-in) that is pre-set and does not change for the duration of eliminations. Both cars leave at the same time and whoever gets to the finish line first without going under the index wins. Again, the driver's skill in reaction time plays a big role. In most index races (at least the 4 or 5 different sanctions of indexed racing I've done), you are still allowed to do whatever necessary to run as close to the index without going under. If there was a rule against it, I was neither made aware of it or enforced for breaking it.
John is proposing a class where cars run indexes set at half second increments. If your car is capable of say, 12.20's, you'd run the 12.00 to 12.50 index, meaning that you would be allowed to run as fast as you can, but no faster than 12.000 and you would not be allowed to hit the brakes or lift off the gas to insure an over the index run.

I hope I made that as clear as mud for you and explained it as objectively as possible.

[ November 16, 2001: Message edited by: Kristi ]</strong><hr></blockquote>


Nice explanation Kristi. <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">

 

So what is the decision?

I really do like the idea of indexing. Bracket racing or not. Racing is racing. I have never raced anything but bracket racing. Doubt many of the members of this board has really 'race heads-up' racing, other than street racing or test and tune.

On bracket racing: it is great to see an 11 second car dial 12.00. You dial 12.05. You nail your light and the other guy has to brake out to beat you. I could care less if you slam on the brakes or not. If I run my race, on my dial, on my reaction time, you are not going to beat me -- either indexing or bracket. Heads-up racing, I couldn't beat hardly anyone out there. But I do love to race.

Just m .02

David

 

Thanks to everyone who contributed for their input. This thread will be referred to often as things firm up!

 

Sounds great but have a min weight requirement.
The stripped cars can add weight to meet class specs without having to throw everything back in their car. Also it will be hard to detect say a 393 shortblock with stock valved ported heads and very mild cam <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">
Might have some cheaters in the class <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">
Cheers
Chris

 

[quote]Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong>Sounds great but have a min weight requirement.
The stripped cars can add weight to meet class specs without having to throw everything back in their car. Also it will be hard to detect say a 393 shortblock with stock valved ported heads and very mild cam <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">
Might have some cheaters in the class <img src="images/icons/smile.gif" border="0">
Cheers
Chris</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's the concern. However, a 393 w/ stock valves and a mild cam is still gonna run quicker than a bolt-on car should IMO. You couldn't hear the 221/221 cam in my 383 when it was first built, yet it was running 11.60's the first week out with a 3,700# raceweight and SY3500. I would expect that if the shop that built the engine is worth a crap, then it will be easy to see that it just doesn't add up. However, that doesn't mean that people won't try, or even pull it off for that matter!

 

It's pretty easy to check displacement and cam-size at the track.