Keeping up with a Coyote
03-29-2017, 05:53 PM
#81
that is normal.
Expect to drop pressures pretty low for best results at the track. I bring a pressure guage with a bleed off valve so after a pass when you put some heat in the tires you can check them and just hold the bleed button to drop the pressures back down after a pass. You will end up somewhere between 13-18 psi and check between rounds to make sure your pressures aren't climbing into the 20's after heat cycles.
Expect to drop pressures pretty low for best results at the track. I bring a pressure guage with a bleed off valve so after a pass when you put some heat in the tires you can check them and just hold the bleed button to drop the pressures back down after a pass. You will end up somewhere between 13-18 psi and check between rounds to make sure your pressures aren't climbing into the 20's after heat cycles.
04-09-2017, 01:41 PM
#82
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Went to the track last night. I ran a 12.9@104 1.7 60ft. 3919 DA. Stalled to 2500 eased into it and hooked great. Wanted to try stalling higher in my last pass but light went green before I was Stalled up and had a 1.8 60 ft.
Brother went 12.4@112 1.7 60ft. So he is getting faster but the gap is getting a tad smaller.
But now my transmission isn't shifting right so I don't know what to do there. My goal after the stall and tires was 12.9 so I was happy there and if I had clean shifts on that pass I would have been at least 12.8 most likely. Damn trans not working right sucks big time tho. Oh well, back to making it better.
Brother went 12.4@112 1.7 60ft. So he is getting faster but the gap is getting a tad smaller.
But now my transmission isn't shifting right so I don't know what to do there. My goal after the stall and tires was 12.9 so I was happy there and if I had clean shifts on that pass I would have been at least 12.8 most likely. Damn trans not working right sucks big time tho. Oh well, back to making it better.
04-23-2017, 10:15 PM
#83
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Sold my motorcycle so I have some extra cash to play with. Looking at heads and/or cam. Bad part is I have no clue on the subject. So first question is, if I only did one, do I get a better bang for my buck with heads or a cam? I plan to get both but might get one at a time so it's not as big of a bill at once. A recommendation on the vendor to get in touch with so I don't have to bother you guys with all my ignorance would be helpful.
04-23-2017, 11:41 PM
#84
If it were mine and heads and cam were a given, I'd do it all at once. Otherwise you will double pay for tune, some of the gaskets, fluids, time. Also, while there is some middle ground, the best cam for stock heads is almost never the best cam for ported or aftermarket heads. Are you still planning stock 243s or something more exotic? If the former, we're only looking at about 10% extra flow(a nice gain still) so you do have some cams that would work well with either head. If aftermarket or ported, I think the gap widens.
You can't go wrong calling Cam Motion. They will steer you right.
Sounds like things are about to get real fast. Congrats.
You can't go wrong calling Cam Motion. They will steer you right.
Sounds like things are about to get real fast. Congrats.
Last edited by Mercier; 04-24-2017 at 10:19 AM.
04-24-2017, 07:25 AM
#85
Theres al ot of very quick cam only cars , high 10's low 11's
I have never heard of a heads only car lol I think if your ripping the heads off your doing a cam while your there so to your question of which if only doing one go cam.
Without going back through your whole thread I don't recall what size stall you have but 3600-4000 or better is going to be needed once you add an aftermarket cam.
I think your brother is going to be the one playing catch up very soon....
I have never heard of a heads only car lol I think if your ripping the heads off your doing a cam while your there so to your question of which if only doing one go cam.
Without going back through your whole thread I don't recall what size stall you have but 3600-4000 or better is going to be needed once you add an aftermarket cam.
I think your brother is going to be the one playing catch up very soon....
04-24-2017, 07:41 AM
#86
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Theres al ot of very quick cam only cars , high 10's low 11's
I have never heard of a heads only car lol I think if your ripping the heads off your doing a cam while your there so to your question of which if only doing one go cam.
Without going back through your whole thread I don't recall what size stall you have but 3600-4000 or better is going to be needed once you add an aftermarket cam.
I think your brother is going to be the one playing catch up very soon....
I have never heard of a heads only car lol I think if your ripping the heads off your doing a cam while your there so to your question of which if only doing one go cam.
Without going back through your whole thread I don't recall what size stall you have but 3600-4000 or better is going to be needed once you add an aftermarket cam.
I think your brother is going to be the one playing catch up very soon....
04-24-2017, 10:28 AM
#87
If cruising a lot is a definite need, I'd say the extra $400 for the 243s is worth it. Will increase compression and flow. Here is how I see it; let's say mid-11 street car(and I mean real streetable(cruiser as you said)). Do that cam-only, you are looking at a pretty big cam. You do heads at the same time, you could do big cam still and get into the low 11s or even high 10s but then you still have a big, stinky cam. Do the heads, and you can have the same mid-11 car with a smaller cam since everything is working more efficiently. I don't mean stock cam; it can still have a nice lope and sound to it, but just something more reasonable for a lot of cruising.
*For the record, I am a huge fan of big, obnoxious, stinky cams.
But I also know that in the vehicles I truly enjoy driving all day on a Saturday(and actually having ladies and friends ride with me), it's just a bit much. Since 11.5 is your goal, I think a well-optimized setup with a cam that doesn't sound like much would add sleeper effect and be a ride you can enjoy for long periods. Your valve train will thank you also. Remember; you aren't really supposed to put 50K miles on a set of donkey-dick cam valve springs. Those become maintenance($$) items too. I'd aim for something you can run some PSI 1511s with.
I'll stop rambling now as I'm sure my point is made somewhere in there a couple of times.
*For the record, I am a huge fan of big, obnoxious, stinky cams.
But I also know that in the vehicles I truly enjoy driving all day on a Saturday(and actually having ladies and friends ride with me), it's just a bit much. Since 11.5 is your goal, I think a well-optimized setup with a cam that doesn't sound like much would add sleeper effect and be a ride you can enjoy for long periods. Your valve train will thank you also. Remember; you aren't really supposed to put 50K miles on a set of donkey-dick cam valve springs. Those become maintenance($$) items too. I'd aim for something you can run some PSI 1511s with.
I'll stop rambling now as I'm sure my point is made somewhere in there a couple of times.
04-24-2017, 10:52 AM
#88
On The Tree
Thread Starter
If cruising a lot is a definite need, I'd say the extra $400 for the 243s is worth it. Will increase compression and flow. Here is how I see it; let's say mid-11 street car(and I mean real streetable(cruiser as you said)). Do that cam-only, you are looking at a pretty big cam. You do heads at the same time, you could do big cam still and get into the low 11s or even high 10s but then you still have a big, stinky cam. Do the heads, and you can have the same mid-11 car with a smaller cam since everything is working more efficiently. I don't mean stock cam; it can still have a nice lope and sound to it, but just something more reasonable for a lot of cruising.
*For the record, I am a huge fan of big, obnoxious, stinky cams.
But I also know that in the vehicles I truly enjoy driving all day on a Saturday(and actually having ladies and friends ride with me), it's just a bit much. Since 11.5 is your goal, I think a well-optimized setup with a cam that doesn't sound like much would add sleeper effect and be a ride you can enjoy for long periods. Your valve train will thank you also. Remember; you aren't really supposed to put 50K miles on a set of donkey-dick cam valve springs. Those become maintenance($$) items too. I'd aim for something you can run some PSI 1511s with.
I'll stop rambling now as I'm sure my point is made somewhere in there a couple of times.
*For the record, I am a huge fan of big, obnoxious, stinky cams.
But I also know that in the vehicles I truly enjoy driving all day on a Saturday(and actually having ladies and friends ride with me), it's just a bit much. Since 11.5 is your goal, I think a well-optimized setup with a cam that doesn't sound like much would add sleeper effect and be a ride you can enjoy for long periods. Your valve train will thank you also. Remember; you aren't really supposed to put 50K miles on a set of donkey-dick cam valve springs. Those become maintenance($$) items too. I'd aim for something you can run some PSI 1511s with.
I'll stop rambling now as I'm sure my point is made somewhere in there a couple of times.
So is there a magic heads and cam package kit someone is selling online that that meets my needs? Probably can be that easy lol
04-24-2017, 12:08 PM
#89
there are plenty of cars that make 11's and even mid 11's stock internals (stock heads and cam) , it wont take a big stinky cam to hit 11.5's.
The Red Camaro that was for sale in the eastern section last year regular posting guy on here went 11.4's on the tiniest of cams ,the GM hotcam very conservative setup. I will see if I can find a link for you.
edit here is the link:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/eastern-c...amaro-z28.html
ran 11.41 description says small cheater type cam but I want to say in another thread he said it was the hot cam or a copy of the hot cam.
The Red Camaro that was for sale in the eastern section last year regular posting guy on here went 11.4's on the tiniest of cams ,the GM hotcam very conservative setup. I will see if I can find a link for you.
edit here is the link:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/eastern-c...amaro-z28.html
ran 11.41 description says small cheater type cam but I want to say in another thread he said it was the hot cam or a copy of the hot cam.
Last edited by murphinator; 04-24-2017 at 12:21 PM.
04-24-2017, 01:21 PM
#90
This ^^^
You've got a lot left in the car as a bolt ons car. Why open up the motor. There's quite a few threads where guys run 11's bolt ons. What's your current mod list? I read the beginning. Did you ever get a good exhaust setup? Maybe speedmaster's new true dual setup 1 7/8. People have been really liking the quality and a lot cheaper than their competitors.
Then maybe lighten the car up a little with a tubular k member. Makes it easier to work on to but drops some good weight right off the front of the car.
Then maybe an electric water pump and underdrive pulley, maybe higher ratio roller rockers.
If you got the money to do heads and cam you could do quite a bit more bolt ons and achieve your goals imo. And bolt ons is cheap labor. Then spend some money on a good tune or get HPTuners and a wideband and do some logging and tuning via email with a tuner.
Good luck man. Looks like you're making progress for sure
You've got a lot left in the car as a bolt ons car. Why open up the motor. There's quite a few threads where guys run 11's bolt ons. What's your current mod list? I read the beginning. Did you ever get a good exhaust setup? Maybe speedmaster's new true dual setup 1 7/8. People have been really liking the quality and a lot cheaper than their competitors.
Then maybe lighten the car up a little with a tubular k member. Makes it easier to work on to but drops some good weight right off the front of the car.
Then maybe an electric water pump and underdrive pulley, maybe higher ratio roller rockers.
If you got the money to do heads and cam you could do quite a bit more bolt ons and achieve your goals imo. And bolt ons is cheap labor. Then spend some money on a good tune or get HPTuners and a wideband and do some logging and tuning via email with a tuner.
Good luck man. Looks like you're making progress for sure
04-24-2017, 01:39 PM
#91
There's a hundred ways to get to there. I don't doubt that with a good drag setup mid 11s is no problem with even basic bolt-ons. I assumed by "cruising a lot" we were talking Z-rated radials and a suspension that handles and rides nicely. So kinda 11.5 on highway radials. True street car.
That car is impressive for what it is, but the 11.4 was listed as the BEST ET ever with skinnies. Says mid to high 11s so I assume 11.8-11.9 without a proper drag tire setup. Do we have budget for separate set of wheels/tires? Guess these are all assumptions I made and never asked.
I believe headers/exhaust is already either planned or done right?
From what I've seen, most electric water pumps cost more than a set of 243 heads. Am I missing something? Higher ratio rockers, unless you buy the Chinese models(please don't), are also up there.
Now you mentioned ported or aftermarket heads so maybe we need to establish what your budget really is. I was thinking 243s at $350-$500 and I think I am hearing more like $1000-$1200.
The GM Hot Cam isn't a /bad/ cam per se, but please before you spend the money on an eleventy billion year old grind, call Cam Motion and get something that will be smoother and make more power(and still sound pretty good).
Are we avoiding labor? That might change things significantly. Heads does mean more labor, but to me once you're changing the cam, heads isn't much more work. I do all my own work though so that is to be considered. I grew up on Mustangs with my brother 2.5 yrs behind me and if ever one of us beat the other but had the work done at a shop it wouldn't even be a conversation. Even my dad would join in the mocking. But that's just how we were brought up. Each his own but IMO you appreciate the result 5x more when you do the work yourself. Call it a rite of passage. At least do one and then you can decide to have the next car done at a shop. There is some value to leaving a working engine together, but don't be afraid to take it apart. They are simple machines and really easy to understand with a little patience.
Or maybe you plan to do it yourself and I'm rambling again.
That car is impressive for what it is, but the 11.4 was listed as the BEST ET ever with skinnies. Says mid to high 11s so I assume 11.8-11.9 without a proper drag tire setup. Do we have budget for separate set of wheels/tires? Guess these are all assumptions I made and never asked.
I believe headers/exhaust is already either planned or done right?
From what I've seen, most electric water pumps cost more than a set of 243 heads. Am I missing something? Higher ratio rockers, unless you buy the Chinese models(please don't), are also up there.
Now you mentioned ported or aftermarket heads so maybe we need to establish what your budget really is. I was thinking 243s at $350-$500 and I think I am hearing more like $1000-$1200.
The GM Hot Cam isn't a /bad/ cam per se, but please before you spend the money on an eleventy billion year old grind, call Cam Motion and get something that will be smoother and make more power(and still sound pretty good).
Are we avoiding labor? That might change things significantly. Heads does mean more labor, but to me once you're changing the cam, heads isn't much more work. I do all my own work though so that is to be considered. I grew up on Mustangs with my brother 2.5 yrs behind me and if ever one of us beat the other but had the work done at a shop it wouldn't even be a conversation. Even my dad would join in the mocking. But that's just how we were brought up. Each his own but IMO you appreciate the result 5x more when you do the work yourself. Call it a rite of passage. At least do one and then you can decide to have the next car done at a shop. There is some value to leaving a working engine together, but don't be afraid to take it apart. They are simple machines and really easy to understand with a little patience.
Or maybe you plan to do it yourself and I'm rambling again.
Last edited by Mercier; 04-24-2017 at 01:48 PM.
04-24-2017, 01:55 PM
#92
On The Tree
Thread Starter
There's a hundred ways to get to there. I don't doubt that with a good drag setup mid 11s is no problem with even basic bolt-ons. I assumed by "cruising a lot" we were talking Z-rated radials and a suspension that handles and rides nicely. So kinda 11.5 on highway radials. True street car.
That car is impressive for what it is, but the 11.4 was listed as the BEST ET ever with skinnies. Says mid to high 11s so I assum 11.8-11.9 without a proper drag tire setup. Do we have budget for separate set of wheels/tires? Guess these are all assumptions I made and never asked.
I believe headers/exhaust is already either planned or done right?
From what I've seen, most electric water pumps cost more than a set of 243 heads. Am I missing something? Higher ratio rockers, unless you buy the Chinese models(please don't), are also up there.
Now you mentioned ported or aftermarket heads so maybe we need to establish what your budget really is. I was thinking 243s at $350-$500 and I think I am hearing more like $1000-$1200.
Are we avoiding labor? That might change things significantly. Heads does mean more labor, but to me once you're changing the cam, heads isn't much more work. I do all my own work though so that is to be considered. I grew up on Mustangs with my brother 2.5 yrs behind me and if ever one of us beat the other but had the work done at a shop it wouldn't even be a conversation. Even my dad would join in the mocking. But that's just how we were brought up. Each his own but IMO you appreciate the result 5x more when you do the work yourself. Call it a rite of passage. At least do one and then you can decide to have the next car done at a shop. There is some value to leaving a working engine together, but don't be afraid to take it apart. They are simple machines and really easy to understand with a little patience.
Or maybe you plan to do it yourself and I'm rambling again.
That car is impressive for what it is, but the 11.4 was listed as the BEST ET ever with skinnies. Says mid to high 11s so I assum 11.8-11.9 without a proper drag tire setup. Do we have budget for separate set of wheels/tires? Guess these are all assumptions I made and never asked.
I believe headers/exhaust is already either planned or done right?
From what I've seen, most electric water pumps cost more than a set of 243 heads. Am I missing something? Higher ratio rockers, unless you buy the Chinese models(please don't), are also up there.
Now you mentioned ported or aftermarket heads so maybe we need to establish what your budget really is. I was thinking 243s at $350-$500 and I think I am hearing more like $1000-$1200.
Are we avoiding labor? That might change things significantly. Heads does mean more labor, but to me once you're changing the cam, heads isn't much more work. I do all my own work though so that is to be considered. I grew up on Mustangs with my brother 2.5 yrs behind me and if ever one of us beat the other but had the work done at a shop it wouldn't even be a conversation. Even my dad would join in the mocking. But that's just how we were brought up. Each his own but IMO you appreciate the result 5x more when you do the work yourself. Call it a rite of passage. At least do one and then you can decide to have the next car done at a shop. There is some value to leaving a working engine together, but don't be afraid to take it apart. They are simple machines and really easy to understand with a little patience.
Or maybe you plan to do it yourself and I'm rambling again.
Yank 3600ss
racestars and Hoosier DR2
Longtube headers (not sure what, was on when I bought it)
Cat delete, Y pipe 3" to magnaflow exhaust
Diablew mail in tune
SS SLP:
black hawk airbox
LS6 intake
I plan to do the work myself (with help from my brother) as long as it doesnt get too crazy. We usually are pretty successful following directions online. So with that said labor cost ,besides a tune, should not be considered at this time. We dont have access to an engine lift if that is required. Im probably looking at some where between $1000-2000 budget. I might end up waiting for winter so I dont have my car out of commission during nice weather...if I have patience that is.
04-24-2017, 03:12 PM
#94
On The Tree
Thread Starter
This was a recommendation, seems a bit more aggressive than what I was thinking but I have no idea. I was thinking something in the 224/228 was probably where I was going to get directed.
Cam
https://www.texas-speed.com/p-1150-t...-camshaft.aspx
Heads
https://www.texas-speed.com/p-3515-p...ral-heads.aspx
Cam
https://www.texas-speed.com/p-1150-t...-camshaft.aspx
Heads
https://www.texas-speed.com/p-3515-p...ral-heads.aspx
04-25-2017, 07:44 AM
#96
The TSP recommendation is to the moon. I think that's like if you bolt those on and can't run 11.5 you're racing on ice with a banana in the tailpipe. It'll run but that's more beast mode to me.
Have you called and talked to Cam Motion to get their version of it?
I see you already went drag radials. What kind of front tires? I think 400RWHP should get you what you want but the F-specific guys can confirm. I'm being low on my power estimates because auto and stall. Then of course dyno variances.
Yes, that's doable with 853 or 241 heads at 10:1 compression. But why not do it the easier(less cam required; bump power the entire RPM range with compression) with milled 243s? In my mind, you can likely do nice used 243s milled for about $500. You have to do valve springs either way. Sell your stock heads for $100. $400 + $120 for gaskets and bolts and then the money for the cam and related items(consider lifters, timing chain or set, oil pump while you are in there) you were already going to buy. Spend the rest of that budget on tune and I think you are under budget.
Anyway I don't mean to cram my opinion down your throat. Call the experts and get some more opinion and then make a decision. Everyone here is right I think; just different paths. Above is just the way I would do it.
Another option to consider is sending your heads off to Frankenstein, AI, or similar to have them ported. You get a lot of bang for buck for about $1200(last I looked into it) and usually that includes some kind of springs.
Have you called and talked to Cam Motion to get their version of it?
I see you already went drag radials. What kind of front tires? I think 400RWHP should get you what you want but the F-specific guys can confirm. I'm being low on my power estimates because auto and stall. Then of course dyno variances.
Yes, that's doable with 853 or 241 heads at 10:1 compression. But why not do it the easier(less cam required; bump power the entire RPM range with compression) with milled 243s? In my mind, you can likely do nice used 243s milled for about $500. You have to do valve springs either way. Sell your stock heads for $100. $400 + $120 for gaskets and bolts and then the money for the cam and related items(consider lifters, timing chain or set, oil pump while you are in there) you were already going to buy. Spend the rest of that budget on tune and I think you are under budget.
Anyway I don't mean to cram my opinion down your throat. Call the experts and get some more opinion and then make a decision. Everyone here is right I think; just different paths. Above is just the way I would do it.
Another option to consider is sending your heads off to Frankenstein, AI, or similar to have them ported. You get a lot of bang for buck for about $1200(last I looked into it) and usually that includes some kind of springs.
04-25-2017, 08:25 AM
#97
Mercier is giving you good advice in regards to a more modern grind , bumping compression a bit etc.. if you go the heads cam route.
If you go the bolt on route 98 ws6 m6 has some good suggestions also , underdrive pulley , electric water pump etc... free up horsepower your already making with no tuning implications/less chance of a mistake causing a second tear down , that is always my concern with opening one up , there will be time for that after you bust your **** down the road lol that's when if life serves lemons you make lemonade and already having optimized bolt ons dialed in suspension etc... when you do go heads/cam it will scream because all the supporting mods are there , you already have the experience getting the car down the track etc...another common bolt on that will drop et is a fast intake then you can sell off your ls6 intake for $300-350 and buy a nice ram air setup like a chris 1313 or FTRA that are proven to drop et's and increase traps. Another benefit of going bolt ons is no down time for a build , in your case your brother could be doing more mods while your down waiting to complete your build.
My 2 stock internals cars that have been to the track have been 11.9 and 12. both very far from full bolt ons just the common stuff no ram airs , no fast intakes , etc.., both only to the track once and my stalled auto car had fueling issues that kept it in the low 12's , it was missing after 1/2 track , fuel pump was junk.
If you go the bolt on route 98 ws6 m6 has some good suggestions also , underdrive pulley , electric water pump etc... free up horsepower your already making with no tuning implications/less chance of a mistake causing a second tear down , that is always my concern with opening one up , there will be time for that after you bust your **** down the road lol that's when if life serves lemons you make lemonade and already having optimized bolt ons dialed in suspension etc... when you do go heads/cam it will scream because all the supporting mods are there , you already have the experience getting the car down the track etc...another common bolt on that will drop et is a fast intake then you can sell off your ls6 intake for $300-350 and buy a nice ram air setup like a chris 1313 or FTRA that are proven to drop et's and increase traps. Another benefit of going bolt ons is no down time for a build , in your case your brother could be doing more mods while your down waiting to complete your build.
My 2 stock internals cars that have been to the track have been 11.9 and 12. both very far from full bolt ons just the common stuff no ram airs , no fast intakes , etc.., both only to the track once and my stalled auto car had fueling issues that kept it in the low 12's , it was missing after 1/2 track , fuel pump was junk.
05-16-2017, 06:15 PM
#98
On The Tree
Thread Starter
The TSP recommendation is to the moon. I think that's like if you bolt those on and can't run 11.5 you're racing on ice with a banana in the tailpipe. It'll run but that's more beast mode to me.
Have you called and talked to Cam Motion to get their version of it?
I see you already went drag radials. What kind of front tires? I think 400RWHP should get you what you want but the F-specific guys can confirm. I'm being low on my power estimates because auto and stall. Then of course dyno variances.
Yes, that's doable with 853 or 241 heads at 10:1 compression. But why not do it the easier(less cam required; bump power the entire RPM range with compression) with milled 243s? In my mind, you can likely do nice used 243s milled for about $500. You have to do valve springs either way. Sell your stock heads for $100. $400 + $120 for gaskets and bolts and then the money for the cam and related items(consider lifters, timing chain or set, oil pump while you are in there) you were already going to buy. Spend the rest of that budget on tune and I think you are under budget.
Anyway I don't mean to cram my opinion down your throat. Call the experts and get some more opinion and then make a decision. Everyone here is right I think; just different paths. Above is just the way I would do it.
Another option to consider is sending your heads off to Frankenstein, AI, or similar to have them ported. You get a lot of bang for buck for about $1200(last I looked into it) and usually that includes some kind of springs.
Have you called and talked to Cam Motion to get their version of it?
I see you already went drag radials. What kind of front tires? I think 400RWHP should get you what you want but the F-specific guys can confirm. I'm being low on my power estimates because auto and stall. Then of course dyno variances.
Yes, that's doable with 853 or 241 heads at 10:1 compression. But why not do it the easier(less cam required; bump power the entire RPM range with compression) with milled 243s? In my mind, you can likely do nice used 243s milled for about $500. You have to do valve springs either way. Sell your stock heads for $100. $400 + $120 for gaskets and bolts and then the money for the cam and related items(consider lifters, timing chain or set, oil pump while you are in there) you were already going to buy. Spend the rest of that budget on tune and I think you are under budget.
Anyway I don't mean to cram my opinion down your throat. Call the experts and get some more opinion and then make a decision. Everyone here is right I think; just different paths. Above is just the way I would do it.
Another option to consider is sending your heads off to Frankenstein, AI, or similar to have them ported. You get a lot of bang for buck for about $1200(last I looked into it) and usually that includes some kind of springs.
