Joe Kizzire

Looking for opinions and I know everybody's got one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> I'm talking about the 4th gen F-bodys.
I would especially like to hear from the faster cars George, Stephan, Colonel etc.....

For your preferance please explain....

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

I know which ones are quicker with unmodified stock transmissions.

T56.

Mod for mod, and raceweight for raceweight, I'd gladly run in a 6-speed car that is properly set up for the track against a 4L60e equipped car.

-Tony

TApimp

iTrader: (1)

auto's are more consistant. just stall da bitch up and hammer it, dont have to worry about misshifting. now if you go a3 or a2 manual valve body, then you got a little more to worry about. but the plus's of a standard is unlimited stall, as long as the back bumper doesnt drag. also less drivetrain loss <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

All the quickest LS1's (minus one, which has a race trans anyway), are autos. I'll take the auto any day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Nice4thgenZ

iTrader: (10)

the only thing ill drive is an auto

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">auto's are more consistent.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Depends on the driver in a 6-speed car. I've won tons of bracket racing events with a 6-speed. It can be done. Scared of a challenge?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">also less drivetrain loss</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Automatics have more drivetrain loss.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All the quickest LS1's (minus one, which has a race trans anyway), are autos</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All of the quickest stock tranny LS1s are 6-speeds. A modified internal 4L60e becomes a "race" tranny after blowing $1800-2000 on *upgrades*. Who has the quickest internally stock 4L60e? And is it still alive? HAHA

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">the only thing ill drive is an auto</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Drive? Don't you mean ride? No driving required. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

PontiacFireTA

manuels are usually faster stock, true. But a beasted up auto would win ANY day.

RUQWIKR

iTrader: (11)

Other than the converter change, the original fluid still is in it (pan never opened), yet. Around 120-140 runs plus limited street time (I'll have to count my timeslips).

I love M6's (had one) and autos. I am sure the faster M6's are not doing it on the stock clutch, if so, not for long. That said, when, not if, but when I nuke my 4L60E, I'll go into it once, then, a lightened 200C trans will be going in.

BTW, as stated before, I went to an A4 to worry less on drivetrain breakage since I was not going to a transbrake (at least for now). You can go quick and fast either way, and to me, that's what matters as long as the drivers are enjoying themselves.

Take care and happy holidays.

Utsu

That's what I've said all along! Same reason your car can run with M6 LS1s, with quite a bit less power. 3.35 1st gear and stock 3.27 gears in a stock Cobra is BETTER than an M6 LS1 with 4.10 gears! I'm talking about overall 1st gear (what your 60ft would be dependant upon).

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">your above challenge to TApimp didn't say anything about n/a. HAHA.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mod for mod, and raceweight for raceweight, I'd gladly run in a 6-speed car that is properly set up for the track against a 4L60e equipped car.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Show me an all-motor LS1 running 10.67 or better with a stock 4L60e and 3600 lbs</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Doesn't get any more specific than that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Be honest...how many times have you missed a gear? at least once...no one is perfect..guess what thats one more than I have</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've counted far too many times that a quick A4 can't properly shift, rides on the limiter, and causes the driver to lift the throttle in order for it to shift. I also see a ton of A4 guys that complain or use the ever-popular excuse of "my shift points weren't set right". Sure, all 6-speed owners have missed gears, but I guarantee we are having more fun racing and driving our cars. When your stock A4 slips and hangs a gear, remember that 4L60Es are big POS trannys for me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Drag raing is the least forgiving sport. One mistake and you are out. I'll take an auto</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL! I placed second at the Thunder Shootout, it was the largest class of cars. I had the quickest car in the entire class. I missed a gear twice in that event but still got second. Both cars that lost to me when I missed a gear were A4 LS1 Z28s. Hmmmm... pretty forgiving <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

In the finals, I ran a 10.70 on a 10.69 dial in, with a .571 light. I lost by .03 seconds to a bracket racing pro in a Stock Eliminator car. Not bad for a inconsistent 6-speed huh? PS, my daily-driver was faster than the S/E car. Video HERE

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The T56 is hampered with the 2.66 1st gear. Again, everything else being equal, you'll never be able to get as good a 60 ft out of that T56 as you would a good A4 with a good converter.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmm.. some of the quicker cars actually "step down" from their bigger first gear ratios. TH400 to Powerglide swaps for example. When you have enough power, that lower first gear ratio actually helps. Talking stock motors, sure that first gear helps. But, nobody said you couldn't change the rear gears to boost the overall drive ratio. I am cutting 1.4s with one of the heaviest NA cars out here, and I only dump the clutch at 4500 rpm, on 28" tires. The gearing ratio isn't even taxed for me, if I dump at 5K or higher, I spin. That higher 1st ratio wouldn't help me. Just an example.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">An excellent driver can be deadly consistent with an M6. An average driver can be deadly consistent with an A4.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">An excellent driver can be deathly bored in an A4, and an average driver can have loads of fun in a manual <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am sure the faster M6's are not doing it on the stock clutch, if so, not for long.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Of course not. But, what does a clutch have to do with the tranny setup? A clutch doesn't make you quicker, it simply connects the engine and tranny. A converter does make you quicker, by its torque multiple.

Bob, Judson's SS is cutting mid 1.3X 60' times, at 3200 lbs. Only the transbrake A2/A3 cars are coming close to that. A properly setup manual can easily hang with or beat an Auto. Once the 60' advantage is removed or evened out, its all fair game.

-Tony

fastlif

iTrader: (1)

Its ok tony, no one is trying to convince you, its just a discussion. We all know you LOVE your M6. We all know you can drive a 6 speed, I can too, I choose an auto cause I want to. I have done the 6 speed thing and purposely chose this car as an auto.

tell ya what, I'll run you on street tires in my 6 speed supra. Just to show you I can drive a 6 speed too.

no offense intended.

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
All of the quickest stock tranny LS1s are 6-speeds. A modified internal 4L60e becomes a "race" tranny after blowing $1800-2000 on *upgrades*. Who has the quickest internally stock 4L60e? And is it still alive? HAHA
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I made tons of passes on my stock 4L60E (in the 2001 Z28), best of 10.87@127 on the stock 346. Probably 300 passes, 150 of which were in the low 11s or better. With my 1998 Z28 I ran 11.1 with the stock tranny/stall, many times!

This is just my take, but I think a lot of the guys who race M6's and brag about how cool they are for it really suffer from small ***** syndrome. I've owned/raced 4 6spd cars, and driving them on slicks is very easy. It's not harder to drive a 10 second M6 car vs. a 10 second A4 car (I've raced both many times). It's all a scam designed by the M6 guys to make them feel cooler than they are!

Once you drive and race an auto with a good torque converter, you'll wonder why you ever bothered with an M6 car. Clutches always going out, big money rear ends, big money suspension, bent shift forks, needing a spare transmission, weak or inconsistent 60' times, and all the other things that are synonymous with the M6 are eliminated with your A4. And you want to hear about excuses? If I had a dollar every time I heard the "with a slipping clutch" excuse I could afford to fill my garage with $850 clutches and $1600 spare M6 transmissions!

The A4 is more fun to race on the streets, just point and hang on!! All of you guys who think you're great drivers and want to take advantage of your lightning quick shifts should get an A4 with a manual valve body. All the mechanical advantage of an A4 and you can still shift yourself and feel super-cool!

fastlif

iTrader: (1)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nine Ball:
<strong>[QUOTE]LOL! I placed second at the Thunder Shootout, it was the largest class of cars. I had the quickest car in the entire class. I missed a gear twice in that event but still got second. Both cars that lost to me when I missed a gear were A4 LS1 Z28s. Hmmmm... pretty forgiving <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

In the finals, I ran a 10.70 on a 10.69 dial in, with a .571 light. I lost by .03 seconds to a bracket racing pro in a Stock Eliminator car. Not bad for a inconsistent 6-speed huh? PS, my daily-driver was faster than the S/E car. Video HERE
-Tony</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">thats called LUCK. bet the same group of cars try it again and it wouldn't end the same way.

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's not harder to drive a 10 second M6 car vs. a 10 second A4 car (I've raced both many times). It's all a scam designed by the M6 guys to make them feel cooler than they are! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">BWHAHAHAHA! Sure. Anybody with a 10-second A4 in Houston want to make a friendly wager? We run both of our cars, switch cars, and see who's ET suffers or improves the most after the car swap. You should see Raughammer suffer with his new TH350. He will be the first to tell you how its much more difficult than his point and shoot A4.

As for you Terry, no amount of pre-fabricated conspiracy stories could ever make you be seen as "cool". hehe.

Terry, how come you aren't using that same stock tranny any longer? *Only* 300 passes? Thats weak. My current T56 has been in the car for two years now, and started life behind Jeremy Newhouse's 700 rwhp twin-turbo SS. Its got well over 1000 passes on it and is barely starting to grind now.

-Tony

12secSS

iTrader: (30)

Driving implies taking turns/curves. Last I checked an A4 nor an M6 will turn by themsleves. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> So you manual drivers are not DRIVING you cars, you are SHIFTING them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

We should go back to carbs, when we used to be one with the car. Knowing our skills were responsible for the wins. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Just yanking your manual chains everyone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> Progress, people, progress. In the old days the autos were (alot) slower than the manuals. The gap is shortening. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

Oh, and if anyone wants to race my car (bolt-on for bolt-on, A4 vs M6) meet me at LACR. We'll see if you can run those 'net numbers here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jester]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" />

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">thats called LUCK. bet the same group of cars try it again and it wouldn't end the same way</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'd agree with you. I've also got a full shelf of those things called trophies that you can win by having alot of "luck".

Lets keep it simple. If you are happy with the level of challenge an A4 brings to racing, thats great. Some of us would rather add a little more excitement to the mix and drive the cars though.

As a side note, I don't really consider the transbraked, manual valve body TH350/400 trannys as "automatic". You still have to shift those things, and control the launch. That would still be a ton of fun for me. I just don't like having a computer shift for me. THATS <img border="0" alt="[boring]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_zzz.gif" />

-Tony

The Guy in MY 99TA

I'm gunna say the A4 is the best way to go. If you want to play around and have fun DO NOT buy an AUTOMATIC CAR. Auto's are mainly for people who are serious.

The M6 is the way to go to have fun IMO. But for racing and trying to get the best time you can the A4 is the only way to go.

Josh S.

Terry Burger

iTrader: (4)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
BWHAHAHAHA! Sure. Anybody with a 10-second A4 in Houston want to make a friendly wager? We run both of our cars, switch cars, and see who's ET suffers or improves the most after the car swap. You should see Raughammer suffer with his new TH350. He will be the first to tell you how its much more difficult than his point and shoot A4.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'll take that bet, just come to the spring shootout and race! Or better yet if you really want to settle this why not have an A4 vs. M6 class at the shootout? Similar weights and mods.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Terry, how come you aren't using that same stock tranny any longer? *Only* 300 passes? Thats weak. My current T56 has been in the car for two years now, and started life behind Jeremy Newhouse's 700 rwhp twin-turbo SS. Its got well over 1000 passes on it and is barely starting to grind now.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Say you get an average of 5 passes per week at the track, you'd have to go to the track once per week for 4 years to get to 1000 passes! We all know you race an average of once or twice per month, so that would mean you've had that tranny for 8 years (or more!). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

If you're counting street driving I've probably floored my 2001 over 1500 times driving around, of course I've only had the car a year.

..and always remember, those few of us who have raced 10 second M6 cars KNOW how easy it is!

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

You guys remember when you were kids and played with your Hot Wheels and Matchbox cars? Remember making those car sounds, acting out the races and such?

"Vroom Vroom!"

Did your Hot Wheel races go:

1. "WAHHH..WAHHHHHHHHHHHH..WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

-OR-

2. "WAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah"

I think everyone did it like #1. See, we were programmed to think the sound of a manual car at WOT was cool even at an early age <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

VTtransam

You guys might not care but... I raced a friend who has a 99 ss a4, headers, catback, lid in my 99 ws6 m6, headers, catback, lid and came out on top 3 out of 3 races. This was a couple years ago, both cars had about 15k miles and the EXACT same mods with stock rears with street tires. I know I have more gear than him stock but he was about 1/5 of a car ahead of me out of the whole but I consistently beat him by about 1/2-1 car length each time. I'm not sure if this will help your discussion but it is my only encounter I can remember with an equally modded car with stock tranny/rear/gears/tires. Later

Matt