stock internal bullshit!
06-10-2005, 11:11 AM
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stock internal bullshit! how can a guy with arp rodbolts not be stock internal... someone said "does it have all the parts it came from gm with?.... "no its not stock internal then"...
well, then nor is magnus or anyone else running a aftermarket ls6 or lsx intake imo.... the lt1 guys that change rockers, ect... i mean what the intake is on the outside of the motor so it doesn't count right? adds maybe 10-15rwhp and thats prolly why no one wants to count it.. but its on the motor, hwen u order a ls1crate motor it comes with an intake FROM GM.
how can u say its not stock internal, becuase of some fuggin rod bolts guys? i feel sorry for this guy, its not like even if he could rev it any higher he woudl with the stock valve springs.. it would be one thing if he had both , but he doesn't........ i hope he tears apart the motor and puts some stock rod bolts in and gets the record.. tho he want
ill tell you what tho, silent but violent is running what now 11.30's? he lives near me and post on a local board with us from time to time.... let me explain the tru definition of stock internal... hes got a lil more weight to drop, but hes runnin those times on the 843 casting heads springs ect, STOCK RODBOLTS, and a LS1 intake.... iddn't even upgrade to the ls6, and guess hwat if he did it wouldn't have come with his car... just saw in the other threads some of you were wanting to get technical, but leaving out some key things that would affect yourselves.
thanks and good day!
well, then nor is magnus or anyone else running a aftermarket ls6 or lsx intake imo.... the lt1 guys that change rockers, ect... i mean what the intake is on the outside of the motor so it doesn't count right? adds maybe 10-15rwhp and thats prolly why no one wants to count it.. but its on the motor, hwen u order a ls1crate motor it comes with an intake FROM GM.
how can u say its not stock internal, becuase of some fuggin rod bolts guys? i feel sorry for this guy, its not like even if he could rev it any higher he woudl with the stock valve springs.. it would be one thing if he had both , but he doesn't........ i hope he tears apart the motor and puts some stock rod bolts in and gets the record.. tho he want
ill tell you what tho, silent but violent is running what now 11.30's? he lives near me and post on a local board with us from time to time.... let me explain the tru definition of stock internal... hes got a lil more weight to drop, but hes runnin those times on the 843 casting heads springs ect, STOCK RODBOLTS, and a LS1 intake.... iddn't even upgrade to the ls6, and guess hwat if he did it wouldn't have come with his car... just saw in the other threads some of you were wanting to get technical, but leaving out some key things that would affect yourselves.
thanks and good day!
06-10-2005, 11:41 AM
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Maybe it's me, but when I hear stock internals, that means everything inside the motor is what it rolled off the assembly line with. Call me crazy, but GM didn't install ARP rod bolts in their engines. Does it affect performance? Maybe not. But if it didn't effect performance or longevity, why do it? 
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06-10-2005, 11:47 AM
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b/c like he siad hes planning on installing a cam later on..., besides the point tho.. anything that touches oil.. i swear if you take ur intake off you can touch oil
06-10-2005, 11:53 AM
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Is SBV running stock valve springs? I know he shifts that car pretty high. That might be considered diverging from stock internal. And valve springs will affect performance unlike rod bolts. If you have to pull the valvecovers to change it, is that stock internals?
06-10-2005, 11:58 AM
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I'll give ya anoter reason why he can't be stock internal. '98 cam and 241 head castings. His engine is rebuilt to "stock specs" but uses some aftermarket parts. You can't mix and match parts from different stock years, throw in some ARP rod bolts, and call yourself stock internal. It's not like he's gonna win a prize for taking the SI record (if he can even do it). The rod bolts aren't stock, they are inside the engine, it's not stock internals.
06-10-2005, 12:00 PM
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If you read his original post about being the new fastest SI car in the country he states that he doesn't even know what rigns and bearings are used in the engine. He's not SI, you can all deal with it.
06-10-2005, 12:08 PM
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to me si is stock untouched crank rods and pistons.all other like bearings oil pump,rings gaskets can be changed and still say it is si. jason from thunder thru a si motor together and ran it, but nobody gave him any ****. and i am sure he changed bearings and rings.
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06-10-2005, 12:09 PM
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silent but violent has the stock valve springs.. he made sure of that so u guys wouldn't get ur panties in a wad i can promise... hes prolly the most honest guy on here no need to question him! hes got a stock 98 or 99 motor whatever year his car is.. and i mean stock from the ls1 intake to the oil pan......... all i can say is if our local board can convince him to run hes gonna be close to the record again with the stock intake!
06-10-2005, 12:11 PM
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I thought that the stock rebuild motor that Jason built was the one he tested the T-Rex in. I was pretty sure the only times he claimed for that car were cam only. Then again maybe you are talking about another stock rebuild he did before he started testing the T-Rex.
06-10-2005, 12:18 PM
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hmm im working on my cam only setup.. but im saving all the stock cam ect springs ect.. one day when i get the car really light ect.. i will have to swap stalls/cams one nite when im bored and take a shot at that list...
06-10-2005, 12:27 PM
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okay awnser me this.. i still have all my stock cam springs ect... im currently on the stock ls1 timing chain.. but i have a ls2 chain i believe waiting to be swapped in.. heres the thing, you can no longer find a ls1 chain.. since the ls2 chain is a direct replacement, much like the ls6 oil pump is, Gm no longer carries anything but the ls2 timing chain... its a lil beefier but otherwise the same.. its now what you get when u ask for a stock chain from the dealer! so .... if i swap all my stock cam/springs ect ect back in in the future, will that void me from the list? yes i know its blah blah blah the car iddn't come witht hat particular one, but ****, its not like i have a choice of chains ya know... and its not like its an aftermarkt double roller.. if gm built a ls1 right now it would have a ls2 chain
06-10-2005, 12:52 PM
#12
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Magnus could have put in beefier springs and rod bolts when he put the motor in his car. He didn't. He ran his car within the spirit of what we have been calling stock internal for the last five years.
We have allowed different intakes, different tbs. We have not allowed springs, rod bolts, refreshed longblocks.
Argue as much as you want, you are arguing with five years of SI racing on here.
Most folks with cobbled together motors tend to be cavalier with what has been changed, and you can kind of tell based on what they say.
We have allowed different intakes, different tbs. We have not allowed springs, rod bolts, refreshed longblocks.
Argue as much as you want, you are arguing with five years of SI racing on here.
Most folks with cobbled together motors tend to be cavalier with what has been changed, and you can kind of tell based on what they say.
06-10-2005, 01:45 PM
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I see both sides of this. It's kinda like defining bolt-ons. Most people consider bolt-ons to be exhaust, lid, headers, etc. The street racer in me considers bolt-ons to be anything that can be bolted on. That being said, I have a bolt-on car with a cam. Last time I checked, I had 8 bolts holding my turbos on. 
It's interesting to see this debated. FWIW, nobody's right on this subject, it's just popular opinion that gets followed.
It's interesting to see this debated. FWIW, nobody's right on this subject, it's just popular opinion that gets followed.
06-10-2005, 02:15 PM
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Ummm...
Cuz people with upgraded rod bolts take their motors higher.
I can build a stock replacement longblock with a few changes that will make power to 6500.
We're not changing the simple rules we have around SI. If you have to ask, then don't.
Cuz people with upgraded rod bolts take their motors higher.
I can build a stock replacement longblock with a few changes that will make power to 6500.
We're not changing the simple rules we have around SI. If you have to ask, then don't.
06-10-2005, 02:24 PM
#16
SI means the long block can not be touched at all! It must be as factory assembled.
By your logic 1998 cams can be replaced into 2001-2002 LS1 engines and it will be SI. You can mix and match the best components from the 1998-2002 F-body years to create a power house LS1 that is still "stock", yet it is not the same year engine components for the given year engine. So if the engine is balanced and blueprinted it is still SI?
His advantage with the rod bolts is durability. He is not the fastest SI car, especially since he has yet to run down a 1/4 mile track. You can't just say because my 60' was this and it equates to that I am the fastest. a 7.05 (or what ever he ran) can be anywhere from 11.15 to an 11.05. The top end power and weather conditions will decide if his car can run the number. Until he has proof of that claim, he can not claim it, only BS it.
By your logic 1998 cams can be replaced into 2001-2002 LS1 engines and it will be SI. You can mix and match the best components from the 1998-2002 F-body years to create a power house LS1 that is still "stock", yet it is not the same year engine components for the given year engine. So if the engine is balanced and blueprinted it is still SI?
His advantage with the rod bolts is durability. He is not the fastest SI car, especially since he has yet to run down a 1/4 mile track. You can't just say because my 60' was this and it equates to that I am the fastest. a 7.05 (or what ever he ran) can be anywhere from 11.15 to an 11.05. The top end power and weather conditions will decide if his car can run the number. Until he has proof of that claim, he can not claim it, only BS it.
06-10-2005, 08:20 PM
#17
Originally Posted by mongse
Maybe it's me, but when I hear stock internals, that means everything inside the motor is what it rolled off the assembly line with.:
06-10-2005, 09:02 PM
#18
what will happen in another 3 or so years when all the ls1 motors start getting "tired" and you can't find one that makes over 270hp? same goes for cam only cars. i think they should be able to shove new rings, bearings, and seals in it without being penalized or our SI/cam only times will never be able to be touched again.
06-10-2005, 09:24 PM
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like my point about hte timing chains! the only timing chains u can get if urs happens to break is a ls2 chain from the dealer! there a direct boltin and just as cheap for them to make.. i ordered a 98-02 chain and got a 05 ls2 chain! its beefier.. what are u supposed to do tho?