We did not race on that TV show Pinks
08-16-2007, 03:46 PM
#461
14 Second Truck Club
iTrader: (36)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago, Il
Posts: 2,633
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I love how there are so many people who WERE NOT involved throwing in comments like they know everything. I was not there, but based off of what the LS1tech guys said, I wouldnt have raced either. There is no way I am giving odds(based off of the difference in value) to a **** box sight unseen. Also throw in the fact that they could sand bag their way through 3 races with a 1.5 second gap in ET and they were sand bagging before they even started. Its not that hard to drive a car just good enough to win. Through in the fact that the race wasnt in the spirit of what was originally intended and wouldnt havent gotten the sponsors the same type of exposure, and it is a no-brainer to me.
Again, just my opinion based off what was said by the guys here, but I agree with their decision. (Not that it matters much anyway)
Again, just my opinion based off what was said by the guys here, but I agree with their decision. (Not that it matters much anyway)
08-16-2007, 03:52 PM
#463
Originally Posted by Dan Stewart
Good point. That didn't even cross my mind. Yes, you would still have to pay any federal and state taxes on winnings. But, that doesn't legalize the gambling. Drug dealers are still required to pay taxes on their income also.
Maybe, maybe not. Thousands of lawyers are wrong everyday. That's why there is always a loser in a lawsuit.
It could easily be argued that racing for titles or cash is illegal gambling, even though the show thinks they are getting around the law by having you sign over the title to them first. Their take on it is more than likely "Well, technically you aren't gambling because you signed the car over to us and were just awarding what is now our car to the contest winner". That would mean that the show is running a contest with an entry fee (your car is the entry fee). Although it sounds legal, it is really nothing more than paramutual betting and is illegal in a lot of states (that's why you hear about all those contests on the tv and radio that state "No purchase necessary").
Now before everyone comes in and starts trying to argue "Well I have to pay an entry fee at the gate of the drag strip for a race that pays out cash, etc.", you need to remember this: You are not paying a fee to enter the contest, you are paying a fee to use the track. The track keeps that money, the contest promoters get zilp from those proceeds.
I'm sure it could be put to the test by contacting your state's Attorney General's office, but that could result in the AG deciding to press charges against the shows producers, etc. And before someone starts to quip "Well if that was so, why hasn't the AG done anything about it yet?" Simple. The odds are really good that the state AG has never even heard about Pinks. Can't prosecute a crime you don't know is going on.
Maybe, maybe not. Thousands of lawyers are wrong everyday. That's why there is always a loser in a lawsuit.
It could easily be argued that racing for titles or cash is illegal gambling, even though the show thinks they are getting around the law by having you sign over the title to them first. Their take on it is more than likely "Well, technically you aren't gambling because you signed the car over to us and were just awarding what is now our car to the contest winner". That would mean that the show is running a contest with an entry fee (your car is the entry fee). Although it sounds legal, it is really nothing more than paramutual betting and is illegal in a lot of states (that's why you hear about all those contests on the tv and radio that state "No purchase necessary").
Now before everyone comes in and starts trying to argue "Well I have to pay an entry fee at the gate of the drag strip for a race that pays out cash, etc.", you need to remember this: You are not paying a fee to enter the contest, you are paying a fee to use the track. The track keeps that money, the contest promoters get zilp from those proceeds.
I'm sure it could be put to the test by contacting your state's Attorney General's office, but that could result in the AG deciding to press charges against the shows producers, etc. And before someone starts to quip "Well if that was so, why hasn't the AG done anything about it yet?" Simple. The odds are really good that the state AG has never even heard about Pinks. Can't prosecute a crime you don't know is going on.
Track keeps every penny of entry as far as I know, thats what they get for 'rental.'
If the state has a lottery or gambling casinos then it cant be against the law I dont think.
Either way its silly to be vindictive over a TV show unless you are involved with it. Just like the ricer kid who sued a local dragstrip (he was under 18 and they werent supposed to let him race) that broke his trans in an EVO. His mom sued, got a new clutch and they closed the track on weekdays for T&T. Worked out great for ONE person and the lawyers..
Personally I like the all-out stuff, not very clear on the selection process at times but when you can attract 350+ cars and 30K spectators at a moments notice that goes to show you some people are watching. Plus its a great atmoshere at those things, every racer is on an even playing field until they announce the final 16 so you see a lot of partying and just having fun, chevy, ford, import, olds, buick, old, new its all there.
I'd hate to lose events like that because someone found out it was illegal in some way shape or form.
08-16-2007, 04:17 PM
#464
LS1Tech Co-Founder
Thread Starter
iTrader: (34)
All-Out works well, look at the participation. They get as many folks as Super Chevy, and Super Chevy has been around for like 15 years. How many drag racing events get 400 cars and fill the stands.... hardly any. I told Kail that I think their approach keeps it interesting, since it's not an automatic bracket race.
As an aside, we've seen a huge increase in how long folks are on the site, looks like there are ton of new visitors reading this thread... I think our record number of views is 140,000 and it took five years for that thread to get there... This thread is a third way there in five days.
As an aside, we've seen a huge increase in how long folks are on the site, looks like there are ton of new visitors reading this thread... I think our record number of views is 140,000 and it took five years for that thread to get there... This thread is a third way there in five days.
08-16-2007, 04:19 PM
#465
Originally Posted by kp
Game shows.
If the state has a lottery or gambling casinos then it cant be against the law I dont think.
If the state has a lottery or gambling casinos then it cant be against the law I dont think.
As for being a game show, that doesn't exempt them from gambling laws. It is still illegal for a game show to require an entry fee, just as with any contest in which a prize is awarded.
I'm sure someone will try to argue "What about raffles and bingo halls?" Raffles (in states that they are legal in) must be operated by non-profit organizations. Last I checked, the show gets money from advertising the contest, which makes it ineligible to be a non-profit. Bingo halls also have to be permitted and be a non-profit. Lot's of bingo halls get shut down every year for violating the law.
Originally Posted by kp
Either way its silly to be vindictive over a TV show unless you are involved with it. Just like the ricer kid who sued a local dragstrip (he was under 18 and they werent supposed to let him race) that broke his trans in an EVO. His mom sued, got a new clutch and they closed the track on weekdays for T&T. Worked out great for ONE person and the lawyers..
Personally I like the all-out stuff, not very clear on the selection process at times but when you can attract 350+ cars and 30K spectators at a moments notice that goes to show you some people are watching. Plus its a great atmoshere at those things, every racer is on an even playing field until they announce the final 16 so you see a lot of partying and just having fun, chevy, ford, import, olds, buick, old, new its all there.
I'd hate to lose events like that because someone found out it was illegal in some way shape or form.
Personally I like the all-out stuff, not very clear on the selection process at times but when you can attract 350+ cars and 30K spectators at a moments notice that goes to show you some people are watching. Plus its a great atmoshere at those things, every racer is on an even playing field until they announce the final 16 so you see a lot of partying and just having fun, chevy, ford, import, olds, buick, old, new its all there.
I'd hate to lose events like that because someone found out it was illegal in some way shape or form.
I'm sure by now, there are quite a few people wondering "How the heck does this guy know so much about gambling laws?" To be honest, I was a volunteer with a lobbying group to bring paramutual horse racing to Texas.
08-16-2007, 04:33 PM
#466
Originally Posted by Dan Stewart
Good point! But, unfortunately state lotteries are legal by the sole fact that a state law was passed allowing the state (not individuals or organizations) to operate a lottery. And states with casinos require the casino to be licensed by typically a gaming commission. The show has been to Texas Motorplex in Ennis, casinos are illegal in Texas. Texas DOES have a state lottery, but the law only allows the state to operate a lottery.
As for being a game show, that doesn't exempt them from gambling laws. It is still illegal for a game show to require an entry fee, just as with any contest in which a prize is awarded.
I'm sure someone will try to argue "What about raffles and bingo halls?" Raffles (in states that they are legal in) must be operated by non-profit organizations. Last I checked, the show gets money from advertising the contest, which makes it ineligible to be a non-profit. Bingo halls also have to be permitted and be a non-profit. Lot's of bingo halls get shut down every year for violating the law.
I agree 100%! I love watching the show. But, it's only a matter of time before some peckerhead clues the authorities in on it and it gets shut down.
I'm sure by now, there are quite a few people wondering "How the heck does this guy know so much about gambling laws?" To be honest, I was a volunteer with a lobbying group to bring paramutual horse racing to Texas.
As for being a game show, that doesn't exempt them from gambling laws. It is still illegal for a game show to require an entry fee, just as with any contest in which a prize is awarded.
I'm sure someone will try to argue "What about raffles and bingo halls?" Raffles (in states that they are legal in) must be operated by non-profit organizations. Last I checked, the show gets money from advertising the contest, which makes it ineligible to be a non-profit. Bingo halls also have to be permitted and be a non-profit. Lot's of bingo halls get shut down every year for violating the law.
I agree 100%! I love watching the show. But, it's only a matter of time before some peckerhead clues the authorities in on it and it gets shut down.
I'm sure by now, there are quite a few people wondering "How the heck does this guy know so much about gambling laws?" To be honest, I was a volunteer with a lobbying group to bring paramutual horse racing to Texas.
My guess is since they charge a gate fee thats why they always have some kind of stunt show, jet car etc that has nothing to do with the pinks show really, so thats what the people are 'paying' for. If they want to hang around and watch the race afterwards its up to them, good way to circumvent that I suppose.
The titles show I'm not sure how they get away with it. Either way it creates a crapload of revenue for whatever venue they go to so my guess any attemp to stop it would be kinda futile since its there and gone rather quickly. Interesting to mull over though, but its getting a little off topic
08-16-2007, 04:34 PM
#467
LS1Tech Co-Founder
Thread Starter
iTrader: (34)
Dan, it's like any show, if folks pay taxes it's a non-event. Plus they know the state laws, it's a very organized show.
I've had a headache on and off since Saturday, so if I stroke out I will ask my wife to post... I'm mostly kidding.
I've had a headache on and off since Saturday, so if I stroke out I will ask my wife to post... I'm mostly kidding.
08-16-2007, 05:32 PM
#468
Yeah, we're getting way off topic.
All the discussion on the legality of the gambling is a moot point anyway.
John, I'm just sorry that you put so much time and effort to try and make this whole thing happen and at all just fell apart. I was really looking forward to see that Camaro tear it up.
Oh well, look at the bright side: You still have the GMHTP article and the LSx shootout to look forward to. Do us proud man.
All the discussion on the legality of the gambling is a moot point anyway.
John, I'm just sorry that you put so much time and effort to try and make this whole thing happen and at all just fell apart. I was really looking forward to see that Camaro tear it up.
Oh well, look at the bright side: You still have the GMHTP article and the LSx shootout to look forward to. Do us proud man.
08-16-2007, 05:41 PM
#469
On The Tree
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bay Minette, AL
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have followed this since the buildup of the car was first announced and have been very impressed with the way the sponsors and the LS1TECH crew stepped up to the plate to pull it off with a quality build in the alotted time. Initially, I was unsure why PSJ wouldn't allow members to donate but with the way things have turned out with the situation, it was a VERY smart move. I can only imagine what kinda BS would have been talked in this thread if he would have. The sh@t talk was bad enough for awhile and seemed to be getting out of hand.
I understand the amount of frustration that was involved and would just like to say, "Thanks, PSJ!" for posting in a civil manner and trying to explain the situation as clearly as possible. Also thanks to the others involved that have tried to be informative of this whole situation to get those of us "out of the loop" up to speed with what actually happened and not bicker/bitch back and forth.
Finally, PSJ, I am duly impressed with the way you "manned up" and took financial responsibility for the way things worked out. It's people like you that make me proud to be a small part of such a great site. Good luck with the car in the future and keep us informed of the cars activities!!
I understand the amount of frustration that was involved and would just like to say, "Thanks, PSJ!" for posting in a civil manner and trying to explain the situation as clearly as possible. Also thanks to the others involved that have tried to be informative of this whole situation to get those of us "out of the loop" up to speed with what actually happened and not bicker/bitch back and forth.
Finally, PSJ, I am duly impressed with the way you "manned up" and took financial responsibility for the way things worked out. It's people like you that make me proud to be a small part of such a great site. Good luck with the car in the future and keep us informed of the cars activities!!
08-16-2007, 06:47 PM
#471
08-16-2007, 07:48 PM
#473
Here, in NC, gambling is 100% legal as long as it's a competition sport and the two gambling participants are the ones "playing" each other. If you're sitting on the side betting on a particular person, then that's illegal....silly.
08-16-2007, 08:10 PM
#475
On the gambling question, it's no different than a lot of the gameshows like Press your Luck, even the Price is Right, who wants to be a Millionaire, etc. You win money up to a certain point then decide to risk it and continue playing in hopes of winning more or stop and take what you've won. Same thing on Pinks All-out. You win a portion of money and can decide to risk some or none of the money you've won. You are risking a prize based on your performance, to which you have a vested interest in doing well. It would be a different story if you could take side bets and bet against yourself, but it's a simple risk what you've already one in hopes of winning more.
08-16-2007, 10:02 PM
#476
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pontiac, MI
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PSJ, it sounds like you bent over backwards to get a fair race. I am very surprized they didn't take you up on any of your offers. It is almost like they tell you to bring brackets, but really want you to run heads up. Hell, the crowd was chanting "HEADS UP" over and over again during our race.
As far as the gamgling thing, I heard that it is state specific. Only a handful of states allow you to legally gamble for titles like on Pinks. We wanted to do our race in Michigan at the Milan Pinks All Out event, but the Pinks guys told us that the laws in Michigan didn't allow them to do a Pinks episode here. Instead, one month later, we had to go to KC.
-Geoff
As far as the gamgling thing, I heard that it is state specific. Only a handful of states allow you to legally gamble for titles like on Pinks. We wanted to do our race in Michigan at the Milan Pinks All Out event, but the Pinks guys told us that the laws in Michigan didn't allow them to do a Pinks episode here. Instead, one month later, we had to go to KC.
-Geoff
08-16-2007, 10:51 PM
#478
Originally Posted by Nine Ball
The car will get more media coverage at the LSX shootout anyways, and it will be the NMCA finals and the perfect audience/target consumer that the donating vendors want to reach anyways.
:
:
Oh, and I wouldn't race my $25k car against some shitbox and anyone that says they would is either stupid or lying..
troll...