SFI 25.2 Mustang/LSx build "The Renegade"
06-07-2011, 06:05 PM
#4022
I thought you said those were freeze plug holes in the heads... looks like you have a water line hooked up to them to me.... did you by any chance set the motor up so the cooling for the heads is seperate from the block?
Just curious if you are up to what I'm suspecting... with the amount of fill that the block water jackets had, I'm wondering about what you're doing there.
Just curious if you are up to what I'm suspecting... with the amount of fill that the block water jackets had, I'm wondering about what you're doing there.
06-07-2011, 06:10 PM
#4023
I thought you said those were freeze plug holes in the heads... looks like you have a water line hooked up to them to me.... did you by any chance set the motor up so the cooling for the heads is seperate from the block?
Just curious if you are up to what I'm suspecting... with the amount of fill that the block water jackets had, I'm wondering about what you're doing there.
Just curious if you are up to what I'm suspecting... with the amount of fill that the block water jackets had, I'm wondering about what you're doing there.
Oh those holes....We are "testing some new stuff" is all I am at liberty to say. We definitely got a bunch of **** going on, its already given me a headache with all the lines I needed to get. 
06-07-2011, 06:36 PM
#4025
No I've seen something done like what you may be trying... take the top of the deck of the block, fill/weld a filler plate into it, same with the deck surface of the head so now there is no way to push any water at all, since no water touches the actual gasket. gasket gets made with no water jacket holes in it as well. Pump the water into the front and back of the heads, and then it runs out thru the vent ports at the corners.... pump the water into the front of the block as usual, and out the back of the block, or whatever you're doing there.
It makes sense if that's what you're doing.
Now ya probably understand why I was like "threaded freeze plug holds huh"
I knew that was 
It makes sense if that's what you're doing.
Now ya probably understand why I was like "threaded freeze plug holds huh"
I knew that was
06-07-2011, 06:40 PM
#4026
No I've seen something done like what you may be trying... take the top of the deck of the block, fill/weld a filler plate into it, same with the deck surface of the head so now there is no way to push any water at all, since no water touches the actual gasket. gasket gets made with no water jacket holes in it as well. Pump the water into the front and back of the heads, and then it runs out thru the vent ports at the corners.... pump the water into the front of the block as usual, and out the back of the block, or whatever you're doing there.
It makes sense if that's what you're doing.
Now ya probably understand why I was like "threaded freeze plug holds huh" I knew that was
It makes sense if that's what you're doing.
Now ya probably understand why I was like "threaded freeze plug holds huh"
I knew that was
06-07-2011, 06:50 PM
#4027
You will accomplish that if you pump water into the front and back of the head. I didn't see any pictures of the back of the motor, but if you are doing that same thing in the back then it will accomplish that. Even on non mozez heads, if you drill the vent hole out and put a -4 line fitting in there, you can pump enough water into the front and back of the head to cool the ends of the motor adequately, problem is then the center cyl's want to run hot. Pumping water in one end of the head and out the other, the end side tends to run hot...
Really, the only way to do it right, is to have water entry points at the ends which it looks like you have, and one in the center of the head too... not sure if you have found a way to do that, or anyone has at that point. If you're relying on the block water to do it, then it may work.
Making the deck 100% dry like I explained eliminates the issues of pushing water completely... you have to drill a hole in the water jacket at the back of the engine, and return the water out there, after pumping it in at the front... that works well enough to cool the block without any problems, just a bitch getting all the air out of it... but once it's out and the block is full it does work. The return hole, just has to be up pretty high in the back. And, then you have to deal with the clearance issues with the fittings and the firewall, that's always a pita too.
All this stuff is a pita... I leave it to you guys that want to push the envelope.
Really, the only way to do it right, is to have water entry points at the ends which it looks like you have, and one in the center of the head too... not sure if you have found a way to do that, or anyone has at that point. If you're relying on the block water to do it, then it may work.
Making the deck 100% dry like I explained eliminates the issues of pushing water completely... you have to drill a hole in the water jacket at the back of the engine, and return the water out there, after pumping it in at the front... that works well enough to cool the block without any problems, just a bitch getting all the air out of it... but once it's out and the block is full it does work. The return hole, just has to be up pretty high in the back. And, then you have to deal with the clearance issues with the fittings and the firewall, that's always a pita too.
All this stuff is a pita... I leave it to you guys that want to push the envelope.
06-07-2011, 06:56 PM
#4028
You will accomplish that if you pump water into the front and back of the head. I didn't see any pictures of the back of the motor, but if you are doing that same thing in the back then it will accomplish that. Even on non mozez heads, if you drill the vent hole out and put a -4 line fitting in there, you can pump enough water into the front and back of the head to cool the ends of the motor adequately, problem is then the center cyl's want to run hot. Pumping water in one end of the head and out the other, the end side tends to run hot...
Really, the only way to do it right, is to have water entry points at the ends which it looks like you have, and one in the center of the head too... not sure if you have found a way to do that, or anyone has at that point. If you're relying on the block water to do it, then it may work.
Making the deck 100% dry like I explained eliminates the issues of pushing water completely... you have to drill a hole in the water jacket at the back of the engine, and return the water out there, after pumping it in at the front... that works well enough to cool the block without any problems, just a bitch getting all the air out of it... but once it's out and the block is full it does work. The return hole, just has to be up pretty high in the back. And, then you have to deal with the clearance issues with the fittings and the firewall, that's always a pita too.
All this stuff is a pita... I leave it to you guys that want to push the envelope.
Really, the only way to do it right, is to have water entry points at the ends which it looks like you have, and one in the center of the head too... not sure if you have found a way to do that, or anyone has at that point. If you're relying on the block water to do it, then it may work.
Making the deck 100% dry like I explained eliminates the issues of pushing water completely... you have to drill a hole in the water jacket at the back of the engine, and return the water out there, after pumping it in at the front... that works well enough to cool the block without any problems, just a bitch getting all the air out of it... but once it's out and the block is full it does work. The return hole, just has to be up pretty high in the back. And, then you have to deal with the clearance issues with the fittings and the firewall, that's always a pita too.
All this stuff is a pita... I leave it to you guys that want to push the envelope.
06-07-2011, 08:17 PM
#4029
How many runs did it see at 45 lbs and over 10 to 1 compression though, was this with the last build on the old block that only lasted a trip, or was it prior to that... and how many hits are we talking, 5, 10, 50?
I'm thinking in terms of longevity... like a season at a time without pulling the heads being acceptable gasket life, fwiw. Not sure if that's even a realistic goal to have though at the level you're playing at. You guys are on that double oring deal though and that probably stops all the issues anyway, providing the deck of the block doesn't fail.
I'm thinking in terms of longevity... like a season at a time without pulling the heads being acceptable gasket life, fwiw. Not sure if that's even a realistic goal to have though at the level you're playing at. You guys are on that double oring deal though and that probably stops all the issues anyway, providing the deck of the block doesn't fail.
06-07-2011, 10:58 PM
#4030
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How many runs did it see at 45 lbs and over 10 to 1 compression though, was this with the last build on the old block that only lasted a trip, or was it prior to that... and how many hits are we talking, 5, 10, 50?
I'm thinking in terms of longevity... like a season at a time without pulling the heads being acceptable gasket life, fwiw. Not sure if that's even a realistic goal to have though at the level you're playing at. You guys are on that double oring deal though and that probably stops all the issues anyway, providing the deck of the block doesn't fail.
I'm thinking in terms of longevity... like a season at a time without pulling the heads being acceptable gasket life, fwiw. Not sure if that's even a realistic goal to have though at the level you're playing at. You guys are on that double oring deal though and that probably stops all the issues anyway, providing the deck of the block doesn't fail.
ie: machining a step in the the bore to a predetermined depth then weld/machine that missing piece onto the head. using a nickosil coating to help wear after being honed to the proper dimensions. then set gasket/o-ring and head as usual...
06-08-2011, 07:54 AM
#4031
How many runs did it see at 45 lbs and over 10 to 1 compression though, was this with the last build on the old block that only lasted a trip, or was it prior to that... and how many hits are we talking, 5, 10, 50?
I'm thinking in terms of longevity... like a season at a time without pulling the heads being acceptable gasket life, fwiw. Not sure if that's even a realistic goal to have though at the level you're playing at. You guys are on that double oring deal though and that probably stops all the issues anyway, providing the deck of the block doesn't fail.
I'm thinking in terms of longevity... like a season at a time without pulling the heads being acceptable gasket life, fwiw. Not sure if that's even a realistic goal to have though at the level you're playing at. You guys are on that double oring deal though and that probably stops all the issues anyway, providing the deck of the block doesn't fail.
As far as goal, if we get the 60' where it needs to be which we will in time, we will not need to run that kind of power. And the car is 3xx# lighter so that will also reduce the amount of power needed to run with the top guys. My local series you need to go 4.50-4.59 to be at the top of the heap.
06-08-2011, 08:14 AM
#4032
My head is hurting after reading through the last page, lol!
Phil, Great work and to all your sponsors as well! I cannot wait to see this thing back at the track!
Stupid question time: What line is that black line you have running to your wategates and bovs? Where to buy as well.
Phil, Great work and to all your sponsors as well! I cannot wait to see this thing back at the track!
Stupid question time: What line is that black line you have running to your wategates and bovs? Where to buy as well.
06-08-2011, 08:33 AM
#4033
My head is hurting after reading through the last page, lol!
Phil, Great work and to all your sponsors as well! I cannot wait to see this thing back at the track!
Stupid question time: What line is that black line you have running to your wategates and bovs? Where to buy as well.
Phil, Great work and to all your sponsors as well! I cannot wait to see this thing back at the track!
Stupid question time: What line is that black line you have running to your wategates and bovs? Where to buy as well.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/117/108/=cnp5ut
at the bottom
06-09-2011, 09:19 AM
#4037
Makes sense. The smaller bore should give alot more strength to the liners as well.
The bores wee offset in the old motor? Who did that... just in case I hear of anyoen heading there I can try to steer them clear. I do remember you saying something a while back about the original engine builder doing something screwy I just didn't recall the bores not being centered.... that's pretty bogus.
The bores wee offset in the old motor? Who did that... just in case I hear of anyoen heading there I can try to steer them clear. I do remember you saying something a while back about the original engine builder doing something screwy I just didn't recall the bores not being centered.... that's pretty bogus.
06-09-2011, 10:03 AM
#4038
Went out to work this morning and get some welding done, decided to finally look at why my Miller Dynasty 200Dx welder has been a hard starter, turns out the high frequency ferrite core is broke so I am done for the day. I had to order one but a new one will be here tomorrow.
06-09-2011, 11:21 AM
#4039
It's too damn hot outside to want to be in the garage doing anything at this point. I have a/c in my garage... and even after havign it on for an hour this morning before I even went out there I looked aorund and said screw it.
It's supposed to be cooler tomorrow anyway
It's supposed to be cooler tomorrow anyway