Lingenfelter Launch Control (2-step)
How does the concept of dumping raw fuel into exhaust effect the tune/0xygen sensors? Seems to me that you would be leaning out the motor while sitting on the line or using as a shift controller.
How does the controller effect consistency (from a bracket racer's standpoint), other than more consistent launches/shifts?? Seems like the computer would be going haywire while the controller was activated.
How does the controller effect consistency (from a bracket racer's standpoint), other than more consistent launches/shifts?? Seems like the computer would be going haywire while the controller was activated.
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 20
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I have been beating my head against the wall trying to get the 2-step to work properly in HP Tuners and it looks like a no-go. It works off the line and when I lift-shift but goes nuts when I try to power-shift. I think I will buy the LPE unit but can anybody tell me if my STS Twin Turbo 402 is going to sound like a ricer popping and back-firing when this thing is activated prior to launch? Also, is there information somewhere on the effect of the timing retard feature? Thanks!
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 603
Likes: 1
From: Decatur, IN
Tune related questions Cutting the ignition doesn't impact the calibration because you are at WOT at the line when you are on the 2-step so you aren't in closed loop/fuel trim enable.
As a shift controller if you stay at WOT during the shifts you would also not be in closed loop/fuel trim control.
You aren't leaning out the engine with an RPM limiter (spark or fuel based) because you are turning off combustion to that cylinder completely. You aren't running it lean, you are aren't running it at all (BIG DIFFERENCE).
A 2-step improves consistency by allowing you to hold a specific rpm and leave the line at the same RPM each time. In a boosted application it also makes the boost more consistent.
Again, the PCM or ECM won't be responding to the 2-step because it isn't looking at the O2 sensor feedback on these conditions.
As a shift controller if you stay at WOT during the shifts you would also not be in closed loop/fuel trim control.
You aren't leaning out the engine with an RPM limiter (spark or fuel based) because you are turning off combustion to that cylinder completely. You aren't running it lean, you are aren't running it at all (BIG DIFFERENCE).
A 2-step improves consistency by allowing you to hold a specific rpm and leave the line at the same RPM each time. In a boosted application it also makes the boost more consistent.
Again, the PCM or ECM won't be responding to the 2-step because it isn't looking at the O2 sensor feedback on these conditions.
How does the concept of dumping raw fuel into exhaust effect the tune/0xygen sensors? Seems to me that you would be leaning out the motor while sitting on the line or using as a shift controller.
How does the controller effect consistency (from a bracket racer's standpoint), other than more consistent launches/shifts?? Seems like the computer would be going haywire while the controller was activated.
How does the controller effect consistency (from a bracket racer's standpoint), other than more consistent launches/shifts?? Seems like the computer would be going haywire while the controller was activated.
I want to add to this post...
Jason got me out my 2 step controller just a few days after I sent it back to him.
My guys at the shop got the controller a few days later and it works flawlessly now.
Hope it really helps my car's 60ft short time!!!
Just wanted to say thanks for keeping your word with me Jason.
Jason got me out my 2 step controller just a few days after I sent it back to him.
My guys at the shop got the controller a few days later and it works flawlessly now.
Hope it really helps my car's 60ft short time!!!
Just wanted to say thanks for keeping your word with me Jason.
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
I am looking to run this in my MN12 turbo car in order to help build boost off the line. I am planning on swapping to an auto over the winter and was wondering why you would need a 2 step with a trans brake since I would think the trans brake would allow you to build boost.
Also, does anyone have a picture of a button or something installed? I want to use this only for building boost on the launch with my MN12 but I do lift when I am shifting. I was under the impression that I could have a button on the steering wheel that I would hold at the line, floor the gas which would be limited to the set rpm, then release the clutch and the button to lauch. Is this correct? Thanks in advance.
Also, does anyone have a picture of a button or something installed? I want to use this only for building boost on the launch with my MN12 but I do lift when I am shifting. I was under the impression that I could have a button on the steering wheel that I would hold at the line, floor the gas which would be limited to the set rpm, then release the clutch and the button to lauch. Is this correct? Thanks in advance.
Cutting the ignition doesn't impact the calibration because you are at WOT at the line when you are on the 2-step so you aren't in closed loop/fuel trim enable.
As a shift controller if you stay at WOT during the shifts you would also not be in closed loop/fuel trim control.
You aren't leaning out the engine with an RPM limiter (spark or fuel based) because you are turning off combustion to that cylinder completely. You aren't running it lean, you are aren't running it at all (BIG DIFFERENCE).
A 2-step improves consistency by allowing you to hold a specific rpm and leave the line at the same RPM each time. In a boosted application it also makes the boost more consistent.
Again, the PCM or ECM won't be responding to the 2-step because it isn't looking at the O2 sensor feedback on these conditions.
As a shift controller if you stay at WOT during the shifts you would also not be in closed loop/fuel trim control.
You aren't leaning out the engine with an RPM limiter (spark or fuel based) because you are turning off combustion to that cylinder completely. You aren't running it lean, you are aren't running it at all (BIG DIFFERENCE).
A 2-step improves consistency by allowing you to hold a specific rpm and leave the line at the same RPM each time. In a boosted application it also makes the boost more consistent.
Again, the PCM or ECM won't be responding to the 2-step because it isn't looking at the O2 sensor feedback on these conditions.
Last edited by tee-boy; Aug 19, 2008 at 03:20 PM. Reason: re-read post
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Teching In
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Oz
Just so I get this straight - using one switch/input enables the launch control rev limit & a totally independant switch/input can enable the timing retard?
You can use either on its own or both together but using seperate triggers?
Does it have an upper rev limit where it stops working (ie-7K like others I have seen) for the timing retard?
& finally will logging software (HPT/EFI) see the retard?
You can use either on its own or both together but using seperate triggers?
Does it have an upper rev limit where it stops working (ie-7K like others I have seen) for the timing retard?
& finally will logging software (HPT/EFI) see the retard?
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 603
Likes: 1
From: Decatur, IN
RPM and retard triggers Yes, one input wire enables the launch control rpm limit and a separate wire enables the timing retard.
On the original launch controller/timing controller (the LNC-001), you had to put the unit into timing retard mode and then the green ground activation wire became the timing retard activation wire.
On the LNC-002 a dedicated timing retard activation input wire exists so you can still activate the launch control/rpm limit with either the +12 volt or the ground activation inputs. The LNC-002 also has dedicated switches for the timing retard settings so you no longer have to put the unit into a timing retard programming mode to adjust the settings.
Yes, you can use either the RPM limit or the timing retard function or you can use them both at the same time (for example to hold a set RPM at the line and then retard the timing to build more boost).
No, the LNC-001 and the LNC-002 both only have one RPM limit setting so if you have them set for 4000 rpm launch rpm you need to have the factory ECM/PCM be the maximum RPM limiter (6500, 7000 rpm etc.). The timing retard is active when ever you have it enabled and are above 1000 rpm (no maximum RPM setting).
We have an RPM window switch you could use to create a window of RPM where you want the timing retard (and the nitrous) to be active.
We are considering producing a version of the LNC-002 that would have a high and low RPM setting (a true 2-step) but then it wouldn't have the timing retard features (we don't have enough inputs in the current circuit board design to do all three in one device).
On the original launch controller/timing controller (the LNC-001), you had to put the unit into timing retard mode and then the green ground activation wire became the timing retard activation wire.
On the LNC-002 a dedicated timing retard activation input wire exists so you can still activate the launch control/rpm limit with either the +12 volt or the ground activation inputs. The LNC-002 also has dedicated switches for the timing retard settings so you no longer have to put the unit into a timing retard programming mode to adjust the settings.
Yes, you can use either the RPM limit or the timing retard function or you can use them both at the same time (for example to hold a set RPM at the line and then retard the timing to build more boost).
No, the LNC-001 and the LNC-002 both only have one RPM limit setting so if you have them set for 4000 rpm launch rpm you need to have the factory ECM/PCM be the maximum RPM limiter (6500, 7000 rpm etc.). The timing retard is active when ever you have it enabled and are above 1000 rpm (no maximum RPM setting).
We have an RPM window switch you could use to create a window of RPM where you want the timing retard (and the nitrous) to be active.
We are considering producing a version of the LNC-002 that would have a high and low RPM setting (a true 2-step) but then it wouldn't have the timing retard features (we don't have enough inputs in the current circuit board design to do all three in one device).
Just so I get this straight - using one switch/input enables the launch control rev limit & a totally independant switch/input can enable the timing retard?
You can use either on its own or both together but using seperate triggers?
Does it have an upper rev limit where it stops working (ie-7K like others I have seen) for the timing retard?
& finally will logging software (HPT/EFI) see the retard?
You can use either on its own or both together but using seperate triggers?
Does it have an upper rev limit where it stops working (ie-7K like others I have seen) for the timing retard?
& finally will logging software (HPT/EFI) see the retard?
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 603
Likes: 1
From: Decatur, IN
Logging software and retard Oops - I forgot to answer the logging software question.
No, the logging software from EFILive, HPTuners, DashDAQ and the OE devices (Tech 2 etc.) would not see the timing retard since they are reporting the commanded timing and no feedback loop exists on the actual timing (so no actual vs desired can exist).
With the analog output on the LNC-002 you can send the timing retard value to EFILive, HPTuners, DashDAQ and other devices and then they would see the timing retard as a 0-3 volt analog signal. You could then create a calculated channel that takes the spark timing indicated by the ECM/PCM and subtract from that the spark retard value indicated by the analog output wire and that would indicate the actual ignition timing.
No, the logging software from EFILive, HPTuners, DashDAQ and the OE devices (Tech 2 etc.) would not see the timing retard since they are reporting the commanded timing and no feedback loop exists on the actual timing (so no actual vs desired can exist).
With the analog output on the LNC-002 you can send the timing retard value to EFILive, HPTuners, DashDAQ and other devices and then they would see the timing retard as a 0-3 volt analog signal. You could then create a calculated channel that takes the spark timing indicated by the ECM/PCM and subtract from that the spark retard value indicated by the analog output wire and that would indicate the actual ignition timing.
Just so I get this straight - using one switch/input enables the launch control rev limit & a totally independant switch/input can enable the timing retard?
You can use either on its own or both together but using seperate triggers?
Does it have an upper rev limit where it stops working (ie-7K like others I have seen) for the timing retard?
& finally will logging software (HPT/EFI) see the retard?
You can use either on its own or both together but using seperate triggers?
Does it have an upper rev limit where it stops working (ie-7K like others I have seen) for the timing retard?
& finally will logging software (HPT/EFI) see the retard?
Last edited by Jason Haines @ LPE; Aug 25, 2008 at 08:30 PM. Reason: typo
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 603
Likes: 1
From: Decatur, IN
Launch controller and transbrake A transbrake just keeps the car from moving - it doesn't control what rpm you leave the line. A 2-step works very well with a trans brake or line lock since you can now hold the car at the line and set your launch rpm.
Yes, your description of using a momentary switch is how it would work. We have a couple of customers that wired the launch controller like that.
I will see if we can add a diagram of a momentary switch trigger system - it would be fairly simple to connect compared to the other wiring options shown in our instructions (available on our web site).
Yes, your description of using a momentary switch is how it would work. We have a couple of customers that wired the launch controller like that.
I will see if we can add a diagram of a momentary switch trigger system - it would be fairly simple to connect compared to the other wiring options shown in our instructions (available on our web site).
I am looking to run this in my MN12 turbo car in order to help build boost off the line. I am planning on swapping to an auto over the winter and was wondering why you would need a 2 step with a trans brake since I would think the trans brake would allow you to build boost.
Also, does anyone have a picture of a button or something installed? I want to use this only for building boost on the launch with my MN12 but I do lift when I am shifting. I was under the impression that I could have a button on the steering wheel that I would hold at the line, floor the gas which would be limited to the set rpm, then release the clutch and the button to lauch. Is this correct? Thanks in advance.
Also, does anyone have a picture of a button or something installed? I want to use this only for building boost on the launch with my MN12 but I do lift when I am shifting. I was under the impression that I could have a button on the steering wheel that I would hold at the line, floor the gas which would be limited to the set rpm, then release the clutch and the button to lauch. Is this correct? Thanks in advance.
Before we had the 2step we would stall up the converter to about 1800, so we started out at 1700 until we get a pattern, then hopefully we can turn it up if we find were late on the lights. I haven't used it yet my wife has and so far she was way off, but we'll take some more time and see how it goes.
Kevin
Kevin
Ours seems to be working fine, It's just going to take us some time to get used to it. It does rock the car, thats because of the low rpm its set at. The higher the rpm the less rocking you'll get out of it. We only have a 2800 Vig so if I can stall it to 2000 we'll be lucky.
Kevin
Kevin
9 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,252
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From: Tampa, FL
Hmm, I think then what I want from it I am not going to get. Rocking takes the eye off the tree. Rocking also in essence means you are not at a consistent rpm as it would tap then go down. I will have to look at a recording on my tach to see what is happening.
This might end up being a costly experiment for me and and good deal for for someone looking for a slightly used one
This might end up being a costly experiment for me and and good deal for for someone looking for a slightly used one