2011 5.0 Mustang Dyno
#141
your saying the stock bottom end of the LSA is weak?
allow me....
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...lbs-today.html
albeit aftermarket rods and pistons, stock crank and block.....
the stock bottom end of these engines can handle well over 800 hp.
allow me....
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...lbs-today.html
albeit aftermarket rods and pistons, stock crank and block.....
the stock bottom end of these engines can handle well over 800 hp.
#143
displacement is only a part of the equation. I see a lot of guys here making good power despite the lack of displacement (compared to my 533) thats because The most important part is the cylinder heads and the 5.0 heads might be efficient enough that the lack of displacement might not hurt it so much. We will see.
#144
12 Second Club
iTrader: (49)
displacement is only a part of the equation. I see a lot of guys here making good power despite the lack of displacement (compared to my 533) thats because The most important part is the cylinder heads and the 5.0 heads might be efficient enough that the lack of displacement might not hurt it so much. We will see.
#146
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
I find it interesting that the mustang weighs so little despite the new federal mandate
for all new cars to build stronger cars to handle side impacts. Well adding strength means adding more metal which adds weight. The mustang's dimensions are about the same as the new camaro yet it weighs about 400lbs less??? I doubt if the mustang is built as strong as the camaro. The new camaro feels rock solid on the road. I'm impressed with it.
I drove an '03 cobra and wasn't impressed at all. The shifter in the stock cobra feels retarded and you smack your knuckles into the lower dash/radio area. That car wouldn't be **** if it wasn't for the aftermarket fixing its issues. And its well known that Ford lies about their power numbers. People are getting smarter, thats why the new camaro out sold the mustang since the new camaro was released. And Chevy ain't gonna let Ford out run them. Unless Roush or Shelby has to make the mustang a real car..lol. And look what those mustangs cost over a stock SS. I can't to see what the 2015 camaro will be like, since chevy is going to use a smaller chassis. I'm sure that ford will still need a blower to run with an NA camaro...as usual.
for all new cars to build stronger cars to handle side impacts. Well adding strength means adding more metal which adds weight. The mustang's dimensions are about the same as the new camaro yet it weighs about 400lbs less??? I doubt if the mustang is built as strong as the camaro. The new camaro feels rock solid on the road. I'm impressed with it.
I drove an '03 cobra and wasn't impressed at all. The shifter in the stock cobra feels retarded and you smack your knuckles into the lower dash/radio area. That car wouldn't be **** if it wasn't for the aftermarket fixing its issues. And its well known that Ford lies about their power numbers. People are getting smarter, thats why the new camaro out sold the mustang since the new camaro was released. And Chevy ain't gonna let Ford out run them. Unless Roush or Shelby has to make the mustang a real car..lol. And look what those mustangs cost over a stock SS. I can't to see what the 2015 camaro will be like, since chevy is going to use a smaller chassis. I'm sure that ford will still need a blower to run with an NA camaro...as usual.
#147
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
displacement is only a part of the equation. I see a lot of guys here making good power despite the lack of displacement (compared to my 533) thats because The most important part is the cylinder heads and the 5.0 heads might be efficient enough that the lack of displacement might not hurt it so much. We will see.
the motor. You cant run big high flowing heads if the motor isn't big enough to take advantage of the heads. The displacement is what draws the air thru the heads, so you still need displacement to make big power and more importantly torque.
Small motors don't make the same torque curve as a smaller motor. Small motors need to rev alot higher and use big cams or a power adder.
#148
a Ford V8 has been in the Wards Top 10 Best Engines list 8 times since 2000-2009.
Dodges V8 (Hemi) has been in there 6 times from 2003-2009
Chevy V8's?? 1 time (6.0 Vortec in 2008) since 2000
#149
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
The SOHC 4.6 was enough to satisfy the average joe that wanted OK power. But Ford already had the supercharged 5.4 for the ones that wanted to whoop up on whatevers out there. Fords actually been unchallenged in the pony car segment since 2003 with the cobra. Even the new Camaro with its big 6.2 is having a hard time keeping up with a lil 4.6 Cobra thats 7+years old now!
the popularity of the Mustang is what brought the Camaro back and thats a fact! look at the sales!!
the popularity of the Mustang is what brought the Camaro back and thats a fact! look at the sales!!
#150
I find it interesting that the mustang weighs so little despite the new federal mandate
for all new cars to build stronger cars to handle side impacts. Well adding strength means adding more metal which adds weight. The mustang's dimensions are about the same as the new camaro yet it weighs about 400lbs less??? I doubt if the mustang is built as strong as the camaro. The new camaro feels rock solid on the road. I'm impressed with it.
I drove an '03 cobra and wasn't impressed at all. The shifter in the stock cobra feels retarded and you smack your knuckles into the lower dash/radio area. That car wouldn't be **** if it wasn't for the aftermarket fixing its issues. And its well known that Ford lies about their power numbers. People are getting smarter, thats why the new camaro out sold the mustang since the new camaro was released. And Chevy ain't gonna let Ford out run them. Unless Roush or Shelby has to make the mustang a real car..lol. And look what those mustangs cost over a stock SS. I can't to see what the 2015 camaro will be like, since chevy is going to use a smaller chassis. I'm sure that ford will still need a blower to run with an NA camaro...as usual.
for all new cars to build stronger cars to handle side impacts. Well adding strength means adding more metal which adds weight. The mustang's dimensions are about the same as the new camaro yet it weighs about 400lbs less??? I doubt if the mustang is built as strong as the camaro. The new camaro feels rock solid on the road. I'm impressed with it.
I drove an '03 cobra and wasn't impressed at all. The shifter in the stock cobra feels retarded and you smack your knuckles into the lower dash/radio area. That car wouldn't be **** if it wasn't for the aftermarket fixing its issues. And its well known that Ford lies about their power numbers. People are getting smarter, thats why the new camaro out sold the mustang since the new camaro was released. And Chevy ain't gonna let Ford out run them. Unless Roush or Shelby has to make the mustang a real car..lol. And look what those mustangs cost over a stock SS. I can't to see what the 2015 camaro will be like, since chevy is going to use a smaller chassis. I'm sure that ford will still need a blower to run with an NA camaro...as usual.
The new mustang weighs about 250-300lbs less, NOT 400lbs. The new Camaro weighs so much because its built on a platform meant for premium SEDANS.
Also, Ford cant lie about their numbers when their engines are now SAE Certified. But if you want to go there with that, ive seen SOME dyno numbers (and et/mph's) of the automatic 2010 camaros and a lot of them seem to be down for some reason or another.
The Camaro outsold the Mustang because of pent up demand but i have a strong feeling that now that the hype is dying down and theyre becoming common, sales will come down as well. Im starting to see a bunch at the dealerships.And this new GT engine is creating quite a stir, theres already more than 11,000 preorders for the 2011 mustang.
As for "Ford needing a blower" people always have excuses no matter what, when it aint one thing its another. Ive beaten 4 LS1 F-Bodies in my 533 Galaxie and one of the dudes i beat started saying it was only because i had a bigger engine and went off about how much better mileage he gets WTF?!?!
anyways, like i said, GM will probably respond with more power and Ford might not, which is ok. The Mustang is a well balanced car that handles VERY well, is relatively nimble, very attractive and anyway you look at it 111mph+ traps and mid 12's aint bad and is plenty quick.
#151
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
inferior engines?do we really have to go there? the modular engine family for Ford has been a very reliable engine.Incredible power?not really unless you count the 4.6 DOHC, 4.6 supercharged dohc, 5.4 SOhc, 5.4sohc supercharger, and their 5.4supercharged dohc. anyways lets see how they compare with the gm engines....
a Ford V8 has been in the Wards Top 10 Best Engines list 8 times since 2000-2009.
Dodges V8 (Hemi) has been in there 6 times from 2003-2009
Chevy V8's?? 1 time (6.0 Vortec in 2008) since 2000
a Ford V8 has been in the Wards Top 10 Best Engines list 8 times since 2000-2009.
Dodges V8 (Hemi) has been in there 6 times from 2003-2009
Chevy V8's?? 1 time (6.0 Vortec in 2008) since 2000
started using a 2 piece spark plug that breaks off inside the head!!!
You must only reading Ford magazines. or Motor-Trend. The LS motor has been hailed as one of the most reliable, efficient and powerful engine ever made. it was also awarded for the fact it makes more power then over head cam motors at equal displacement.
#152
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
I seem to remember ford having a massive recall in 2000 cause ford "claimed" the DOHC cobra was rated at 300 hp. And it wasn't until buyers complained that ford finally recalled the car to change the cams and the intake. So if it wasn't for Ford loyal customers wondering why their car felt down on power i wonder if ford would have done anything.
I remember reading about it, but since i knew a manager that worked at Northeast Lincoln/Mercury in Philly, Pa he was telling people he knew to not buy the mustang since the motor was down on power. Ford did fix it, but i never heard of GM selling any under rated LS1. Actually they dynoed over 300rwhp most of the time on six speed cars. Thats about 350hp at the crank. My '99 SS M6 ran 12.7 at 110+ mph with an air lid and filter and drag radials.
I remember reading about it, but since i knew a manager that worked at Northeast Lincoln/Mercury in Philly, Pa he was telling people he knew to not buy the mustang since the motor was down on power. Ford did fix it, but i never heard of GM selling any under rated LS1. Actually they dynoed over 300rwhp most of the time on six speed cars. Thats about 350hp at the crank. My '99 SS M6 ran 12.7 at 110+ mph with an air lid and filter and drag radials.
#153
I seem to remember ford having a massive recall in 2000 cause ford "claimed" the DOHC cobra was rated at 300 hp. And it wasn't until buyers complained that ford finally recalled the car to change the cams and the intake. So if it wasn't for Ford loyal customers wondering why their car felt down on power i wonder if ford would have done anything.
I remember reading about it, but since i knew a manager that worked at Northeast Lincoln/Mercury in Philly, Pa he was telling people he knew to not buy the mustang since the motor was down on power. Ford did fix it, but i never heard of GM selling any under rated LS1. Actually they dynoed over 300rwhp most of the time on six speed cars. Thats about 350hp at the crank. My '99 SS M6 ran 12.7 at 110+ mph with an air lid and filter and drag radials.
I remember reading about it, but since i knew a manager that worked at Northeast Lincoln/Mercury in Philly, Pa he was telling people he knew to not buy the mustang since the motor was down on power. Ford did fix it, but i never heard of GM selling any under rated LS1. Actually they dynoed over 300rwhp most of the time on six speed cars. Thats about 350hp at the crank. My '99 SS M6 ran 12.7 at 110+ mph with an air lid and filter and drag radials.
Geeze whoever rated the Ford motors forgot to mention that since 2005 Ford
started using a 2 piece spark plug that breaks off inside the head!!!
You must only reading Ford magazines. or Motor-Trend. The LS motor has been hailed as one of the most reliable, efficient and powerful engine ever made. it was also awarded for the fact it makes more power then over head cam motors at equal displacement.
started using a 2 piece spark plug that breaks off inside the head!!!
You must only reading Ford magazines. or Motor-Trend. The LS motor has been hailed as one of the most reliable, efficient and powerful engine ever made. it was also awarded for the fact it makes more power then over head cam motors at equal displacement.
Last edited by MauriSSio; 04-14-2010 at 12:16 AM.
#154
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (26)
I seem to remember ford having a massive recall in 2000 cause ford "claimed" the DOHC cobra was rated at 300 hp. And it wasn't until buyers complained that ford finally recalled the car to change the cams and the intake. So if it wasn't for Ford loyal customers wondering why their car felt down on power i wonder if ford would have done anything.
I remember reading about it, but since i knew a manager that worked at Northeast Lincoln/Mercury in Philly, Pa he was telling people he knew to not buy the mustang since the motor was down on power. Ford did fix it, but i never heard of GM selling any under rated LS1. Actually they dynoed over 300rwhp most of the time on six speed cars. Thats about 350hp at the crank. My '99 SS M6 ran 12.7 at 110+ mph with an air lid and filter and drag radials.
I remember reading about it, but since i knew a manager that worked at Northeast Lincoln/Mercury in Philly, Pa he was telling people he knew to not buy the mustang since the motor was down on power. Ford did fix it, but i never heard of GM selling any under rated LS1. Actually they dynoed over 300rwhp most of the time on six speed cars. Thats about 350hp at the crank. My '99 SS M6 ran 12.7 at 110+ mph with an air lid and filter and drag radials.
#155
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The problem was with the DOHC 4.6 in the cobra's. They were supposed to have 320 hp and were making much less.
The PI heads and intake were on the 2 valve GT's. And they were made to make more power than the even bigger turd 96-98 2 valve Gt's.
The PI heads and intake were on the 2 valve GT's. And they were made to make more power than the even bigger turd 96-98 2 valve Gt's.
#156
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Everyone will have to admit that the new LSx series engine are damn good engines. Stock crank is good for 1000hp and the stock block too, which put em in the best designed engine IMO.
The only thing that rag-mags care about is the liter/hp equation, which is silly. A bunch of tech ignorant.
#157
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My setup is a stock crank and block and I'm close to mid 500rwhp. No problem yet my friend since 2 years.
#158
Banned
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I have to laugh when people say "with bolt-ons and a tune" when referring to the Mustang. The car already runs on the ragged edge, you can't get more aggressive with the tune. It's their new adaptive spark control technology:
The adaptive spark control system keeps the engine running right on the knock sensor all the time, continuously adjusting the spark advance to avoid detonation regardless of the fuel used.
And I honestly don't believe ARH is getting similar gains from long tubes that the LS1's got. The Mustang engine is too efficient to pick up a whole lot more power. The BMEP is too high. More efficient than the Ferrari Enzo. If they get another 50-60hp out of this car without raising peak power rpm,then they will have surpassed F1, Cup, and Pro-stock technology. Call me crazy but I don't see it happening with "bolt-ons and a tune" haha.
The adaptive spark control system keeps the engine running right on the knock sensor all the time, continuously adjusting the spark advance to avoid detonation regardless of the fuel used.
And I honestly don't believe ARH is getting similar gains from long tubes that the LS1's got. The Mustang engine is too efficient to pick up a whole lot more power. The BMEP is too high. More efficient than the Ferrari Enzo. If they get another 50-60hp out of this car without raising peak power rpm,then they will have surpassed F1, Cup, and Pro-stock technology. Call me crazy but I don't see it happening with "bolt-ons and a tune" haha.
#159
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+1
Yes this applies to engines using the same technology.... but since the 5.0 has two cams and more valves, it allows the smaller displacement of the 5.0 to flow like a 6.2. No way in hell that engine is maxed out... The only problem with it I see is it will cost a fortune to mod, but other than that its a solid piece. As pat g said, guys with laptops are going to have a field day with this new beast. I would still rather have have a pushrod 6.2, but in a lighter car than the 5th gen ss. Thats whats going to give ford an edge with the 11 gt, 3500lbs and a solid axel. The stang is going to be alot more forgiving on the drivetrain parts compared to the boat of a 5th gen comaro.
+1 Those were pretty much my thoughts.
.
Last edited by bearcatt; 04-14-2010 at 02:19 PM.
#160
^^this list of award doesnt make any sense. If you read rag mag, they will tell you than an LS7 is a piece of crap because its 7.0l and has an oudated pushrod engine. But they dont know those LS7 stock heads will outflow most of the heads outhere!!!
Everyone will have to admit that the new LSx series engine are damn good engines. Stock crank is good for 1000hp and the stock block too, which put em in the best designed engine IMO.
The only thing that rag-mags care about is the liter/hp equation, which is silly. A bunch of tech ignorant.
Everyone will have to admit that the new LSx series engine are damn good engines. Stock crank is good for 1000hp and the stock block too, which put em in the best designed engine IMO.
The only thing that rag-mags care about is the liter/hp equation, which is silly. A bunch of tech ignorant.
Wards Top 10 Engines is based on a global scale on the most reliable engines, it has nothing to do with HP/Liter
btw, i see a lot of people on this board going with the iron block for its extra strength characteristics, but why do that if the stock block is good for 1000hp??? kinda redundant aint it???
Last edited by MauriSSio; 04-14-2010 at 02:45 PM.