417 CID with new "V2" AFR 230 heads (now UPDATED w/chassis dyno #'s)
11-07-2010, 01:41 AM
#46
Pat G just bolted them on a stock 6.0 block and made huge power in his mild mannered G-8
Same price as our 225's....about $2500
However this build had a little extra hand work I performed and also the addition of lightweight intake valves....about $3500 to duplicate these exact heads. Difference from out of the box likely in the vicinity of 10 - 15 HP.....not huge but when your looking for all the money every little bit helps. An out of the box set would still provide a huge grin and a sizable boost in torque and power output. They are notably better than our proven solid performing 225 heads.
Thanks,
Tony
11-09-2010, 05:21 PM
#49
The new 210 info has been updated but your right....the web page still has the older 225 info....we will be updating it shortly.
My advice is to PM me your mailing address and I will mail you a new 2011 AFR catalog.....it has all the current facts and figures.
Thanks,
Tony
My advice is to PM me your mailing address and I will mail you a new 2011 AFR catalog.....it has all the current facts and figures.
Thanks,
Tony
11-10-2010, 02:35 PM
#51
Hey Guys,
Sorry for the delay....
I was waiting to post the graphs with mufflers and without but Jeremy simply decided not to bother with the single 3" system and is going to have Brian @ Walls fabricate a true dual system for the car in stainless. Knowing that's going to take some time I decided to share one of the runs made a week or two back after all the final tweaking on the tune (kudos to Brian for doing an excellent job pulling all he could from this combination!)
This run was made thru two 3" pipes with high flow cats entering into a merge style Y-pipe with a 3.5 exit that dumped under the car....no over the axle pipes or muffler(s) attached.
A few things to note....this Mustang dyno seems to read a little soft on peak torque output. The original 346 we pulled out a few months ago (which was a clone of my former optimized 346 in my Vette) made 470 RWHP and about 408 TQ thu the stock 10 bolt rear. I've never seen an AFR headed 346 that strong on HP not make at least 420 RWTQ and went over some other examples on the phone with Brian that showed the same low peak torque trend (we were looking at stock applications that we know normally make "X" amount of torque). Anyway.....no excuses need to be made here....it's just a point of interest regarding this particular Mustang dyno and the only changes made to the car since the 470 run with the 346 OEM short a couple of months ago was the installation of the 417, a swap to larger ARH 1.875 headers, and the addition of a 12 bolt rear which obviously cost us a little in the final results as well (ideally I would have liked to seen the runs with the same 10 bolt rear for a better apples to apples comparison!).
We are obviously thrilled with the numbers and the power curve in the car nicely mimics what we saw on the engine dyno back in August. It will be interesting to see how much the exhaust hurts us when the smoke clears....hopefully not alot moving into a true dual 3" system. This car should be a handful on the street to say the least!
Here is the dyno data....
Sorry for the delay....
I was waiting to post the graphs with mufflers and without but Jeremy simply decided not to bother with the single 3" system and is going to have Brian @ Walls fabricate a true dual system for the car in stainless. Knowing that's going to take some time I decided to share one of the runs made a week or two back after all the final tweaking on the tune (kudos to Brian for doing an excellent job pulling all he could from this combination!)
This run was made thru two 3" pipes with high flow cats entering into a merge style Y-pipe with a 3.5 exit that dumped under the car....no over the axle pipes or muffler(s) attached.
A few things to note....this Mustang dyno seems to read a little soft on peak torque output. The original 346 we pulled out a few months ago (which was a clone of my former optimized 346 in my Vette) made 470 RWHP and about 408 TQ thu the stock 10 bolt rear. I've never seen an AFR headed 346 that strong on HP not make at least 420 RWTQ and went over some other examples on the phone with Brian that showed the same low peak torque trend (we were looking at stock applications that we know normally make "X" amount of torque). Anyway.....no excuses need to be made here....it's just a point of interest regarding this particular Mustang dyno and the only changes made to the car since the 470 run with the 346 OEM short a couple of months ago was the installation of the 417, a swap to larger ARH 1.875 headers, and the addition of a 12 bolt rear which obviously cost us a little in the final results as well (ideally I would have liked to seen the runs with the same 10 bolt rear for a better apples to apples comparison!).
We are obviously thrilled with the numbers and the power curve in the car nicely mimics what we saw on the engine dyno back in August. It will be interesting to see how much the exhaust hurts us when the smoke clears....hopefully not alot moving into a true dual 3" system. This car should be a handful on the street to say the least!
Here is the dyno data....
Last edited by Tony Mamo @ AFR; 11-10-2010 at 06:36 PM.
11-11-2010, 10:35 AM
#53
Sure is...
Jeremy also reminded me in an email last night that the recent installation of this engine also included an RPS Street Twin Lite (he already had a fairly light SPEC clutch set-up with the former combo however), and he also upgraded to a 100 mm MAF from an 85 as well as a 102 mm airlid so we maximized every area we could in an effort to let this engine breathe.
He could provide slightly better details on which lid etc.
Keep in mind guys that on the same engine dyno my 383 was tested on this 417 produced 50 more horsepower. My 83' laid 540 to the tire in my Vette on a few different dyno's and propelled that car to a 130 trap speed.
I was hoping it would make in the 570 range in Jeremy's F-body knowing they typically dyno a little less and also knowing we would be dealing with the parasitic losses of the 12 bolt rear.
Truthfully both Jeremy and I would have been pleased with anything over 550 but in the back of my mind the "math" indicated it could be better knowing how well it faired on an engine dyno I have tested dozens of combinations on.
-Tony
Jeremy also reminded me in an email last night that the recent installation of this engine also included an RPS Street Twin Lite (he already had a fairly light SPEC clutch set-up with the former combo however), and he also upgraded to a 100 mm MAF from an 85 as well as a 102 mm airlid so we maximized every area we could in an effort to let this engine breathe.
He could provide slightly better details on which lid etc.
Keep in mind guys that on the same engine dyno my 383 was tested on this 417 produced 50 more horsepower. My 83' laid 540 to the tire in my Vette on a few different dyno's and propelled that car to a 130 trap speed.
I was hoping it would make in the 570 range in Jeremy's F-body knowing they typically dyno a little less and also knowing we would be dealing with the parasitic losses of the 12 bolt rear.
Truthfully both Jeremy and I would have been pleased with anything over 550 but in the back of my mind the "math" indicated it could be better knowing how well it faired on an engine dyno I have tested dozens of combinations on.
-Tony
11-11-2010, 02:59 PM
#54
Excellent results Tony. It's just amazing on how much power these motors can put down. IMHO if done right the 3" x 3" onto a single 3.5" catback is not a bad exhaust system. However at the power level this motor is putting down the 3.5" portion is could be a restriction. We shall find out soon. 
11-15-2010, 11:02 PM
#55
Teching In
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi guys.
As Tony mentioned, in order to allow the 417 to breath we did go with a 100mm Lingenfelter MAF and we also stepped up to a Fast Toys 104mm lid. As an interesting side note, when Fast Toys was developing their 104mm lid, they had Brian Wall (my tuner as Tony has mentioned) doing the dyno testing of the new lid for them.
With the engine breathing great, we are now making sure that it can exhale properly through full exhaust. Hopefully the exhaust will be completed soon and I can then provide updated numbers through muffler(s).
I still haven't driven the car or even heard the engine running in the car yet. The worst part is that there is about a 95% chance that I won't get to drive the car until next April/May, as our friend old man winter has paid a visit here already with snow and freezing temps.
What I can pass along is comments from Brian when he was tuning on the dyno - he said that the throttle response is incredible and that as the rpm's approach 4,000 it feels and sounds like the engine has a power adder. Brian routinely tunes boosted applications approaching 4 digits and he said that the broad torque curve of this engine simply amazes him.
I'll be sure to share updates as they happen.
Jeremy
As Tony mentioned, in order to allow the 417 to breath we did go with a 100mm Lingenfelter MAF and we also stepped up to a Fast Toys 104mm lid. As an interesting side note, when Fast Toys was developing their 104mm lid, they had Brian Wall (my tuner as Tony has mentioned) doing the dyno testing of the new lid for them.
With the engine breathing great, we are now making sure that it can exhale properly through full exhaust. Hopefully the exhaust will be completed soon and I can then provide updated numbers through muffler(s).
I still haven't driven the car or even heard the engine running in the car yet. The worst part is that there is about a 95% chance that I won't get to drive the car until next April/May, as our friend old man winter has paid a visit here already with snow and freezing temps.
What I can pass along is comments from Brian when he was tuning on the dyno - he said that the throttle response is incredible and that as the rpm's approach 4,000 it feels and sounds like the engine has a power adder. Brian routinely tunes boosted applications approaching 4 digits and he said that the broad torque curve of this engine simply amazes him.
I'll be sure to share updates as they happen.
Jeremy
