Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

This GTO belongs to a customer of ours that wanted to add some power to his ride. He originally wanted to send his heads to Advanced Induction for their 226cc port program along with the Tick Performance "Street Heat" Stage 2 camshaft for LS1 engines. When he dropped it off we decided to wait on the port work for the heads and see how much we could make "cam-only" first as his vehicle is truly cam only and very simple in modifications.

His modifications include:
-Stock GTO LS2 shortblock
-Stock LS2 heads at factory compression
-Ported LS2 intake
-Stock throttle body
-Stock MAF
-SLP 1x3/4" headers
-Spintech Exhaust
-Tick Performance "Street Heat" Stage 2 camshaft (231/238 .617"/.585" 113+3)

I've included the graph of the baseline run and the way it will leave the shop today. The numbers it made before the cam swap were very strong which surprised us at first. After we thought about it though the numbers come at no surprise as the factory cam is 204/211 .525"/.525" 116LSA out the door from GM. Most of the gains I've seen so far with this cam have been 40-55rwhp and this one only gaining 36rwhp points to the already decent sized factory cam.

Anyways, here is the graph:



Power peaked right at 6300rpm and carried very nicely out to 6800rpm. Again it lost no power to the stock cam which is always a plus. I would say if this cam was to be put on a 112 or 111lsa even that the gains in the low-end and mid-range would be even greater, but with sacrificed idle quality.

Here is an idle video, excuse the poor video quality:



The other thing we noticed is that the valve-train makes NO noise what-so-ever. A lot of people seem to complain about valve-train noise with some of the lobes out there, but with the new lobe technology available it only makes sense to utilize it and have your cake and eat it too.

Here is a video of the valve-train, excuse the poor video quality:


I think it is safe to say that with AI's 226cc port program that this GTO will be solidly in the 450-460rwhp 400-410rwtq range. The main thing we were trying to do with this cam in the heavier GTO was not lose any power to the stock cam. Being a heavy vehicle this is paramount and made the owner and I very pleased with the results even with the 36rwhp gain being less than we first expected. If you look at some of the areas on the graph the new cam versus the stock cam picked up as much as 50rwhp and 45-50rwtq which will be a nice felt addition to the power curve of this car.

Anyways, any questions or comments are welcome!

Martin

1nasty86

iTrader: (63)

Those are the exact numbers my friends 01 ta made with basically the exact same camshaft but on a 112 verses a 113 lsa..... cam works great

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

Did it make more torque than this one? I would think it would be similar or slightly more with the 112lsa, but it would depend on the amount of advance the camshaft was ground with.

This cam at about 5500rpm just begins to freight train like it never did before. The owner commented that at 5000-5500rpm before the cam the car basically nosed over and was done, he has another 1500rpm to play with now and another 50rwhp to boot!

1nasty86

iTrader: (63)

Yeah it made 396 on torque

redtan

iTrader: (5)

At what point in the curve did this cam pick up 50rwtq? I don't see any considerable torque gain untill well past 4500rpm and even then at the biggest point it's only about 30.

bozzhawg

I don't see it either.

What we also see here is a camshaft profile that is bleeding off tons of low end torque for a few ponies up top where the driver will spend less than 1% of drive time.

My question is what is the purpose of the extended exhaust duration and opening the EVO so early if lowend torque to move the heavy GTO is the number one objective?

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

In between 6000-6500rpm there is a 40rwtq gain, but correct there isn't much gain until past 4500rpm.
This was a customer that did not want a custom cam where I would of had a much different profile drawn up for. He wanted a cam from our Elite Series of cams that would idle well like it had a cam in it, but not shake his fillings out. He also wanted a cam that would not lose any power over the stock cam while extending the rpm range the car made power considerably.

He also did not want it to be a bear to drive and being able to drive it in 5th and 6th gear at 40-50mph was a priority.

Honestly if I had full reign to do what I wanted "cam-only", it would of gotten my 'SNS' Torque Cam.

You really like to bust my chops don't you?

I just wanted to show people how much power this cam would make cam-only since there were a lot of guys asking about it lately. Although it probably wasn't the best candidate with the power robbing drive-train of a GTO.

If anyone is concerned about low-end torque check out this dyno graph of another Street Heat Stage 2 cam in a 10.4:1 compression LQ4 with 243's:

This full weight car with 10.4:1 compression, mildly hand ported 243's, a LS6 and ported TB went 11.73@116mph on his second outing to the track and 11.76@115 witn a 7.45@91 half track time on the first outing. For a 3600 stalled auto I'd say that's pretty damn good and shows that dyno's are nothing more than a tuning tool. Sometimes average power wins out over peak power. Our Dyno Jet also reads lower than other dyno's in the area, it's usually 2-3% lower on any given day.

When this particular customer brought us his GTO he had booked enough time and we had him down for an Advanced Induction 226cc port job along with milling to bring the compression up to 11.4:1. When he arrived we had a change of plans and decided to wait on the heads to see what the Street Heat Stage 2 would do cam-only. With the awesome low lift and mid lift flow the AI heads have along with added compression the Street Heat Stage 2 was the all-around best choice for his build. It still will be when in a few months he returns to have the heads ported and the compression brought up.

The full "behind the scenes" story is sometimes not always spoken because it isn't relevant to the study at hand. Now that you know it may make more sense to you.

wildcamaro

iTrader: (15)

Makes perfect sense...you can only do what the customer wants no matter what...have you cam doctored that ls2 cam? It is pretty meaty considering its a stock cam, would be a good budget cam for a 4.8/5.3 stock build...

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

That's all I'm here to do is do what the customer asks. If anyone reading this has ever seen some of the 480-500rwhp builds Tony Mamo has done, my camshaft selection is pretty much dead on with everything he's ever used for those builds. Mid 230's duration, split some bias to the exhaust side and stick it on a 113lsa with some advance. Combine that with high port velocity and a great CNC program and it's a recipe that's been proven for 10 years now to make big numbers which is what this customer wanted while still being drivable.

I have not cam doctored the LS2 cam, but it is pretty damn meaty for a cathedral port cam meant for a 364 cubic inch OEM motor. That camshaft profile itself makes great torque stock, and a cam-only vehicle making 393rwtq is pretty decent considering this cam doesn't particularly lend itself to high torque numbers "cam-only". The one thing it does do is average power. I'd much rather have more average power in an under stalled or under geared street car that has proven itself to be faster at the track nearly every time when compared to a car that makes a little more peak numbers.

Race cars that are geared to take advantage of big peak numbers with low rear gears and loose stalls will always be faster that way, but when you've got a 3600 stall and 3.23-3.42 gears, slightly less peak power and more average power will always be faster.

weldermike27408

419/393 with untouched stock LS2 heads is pretty good i think...

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

Almost every other truly" cam-only LS2" I've seen dyno whether it be a CTS-V, Corvette or GTO with a cam this size or similar is between 410-430rwhp. There are some higher numbers of course, but they come with larger duration cams.

Mike was your GTO at one point in time ever "cam-only"? The modification list on this car is pretty dang slim, and for that I think the numbers are pretty decent. I'm going to try and find a way to get average power numbers out of our software if WinPep will do it. I know other chassis dyno software have the capability.

weldermike27408

nope...with my small CNC'd 243's(2.02/1.575)and an Ed Curtis 230*/236* .629"/.629" 112
stock LS2 intake manifold ,stock LS2 TB,LPE CAI and the exhaust I have now on my stock bottom end LS2 I didnt even break 420 rwhp... Now how much of that is due to 4 spun rod bearings thanks to C.A.M. i couldnt tell you...After Nick fixed the tune on it it still only did 411/386...not long after that the motor blew and all the 6800rpm-7000rpm stock bottom end spun bearings were found

Bottom line 419/393 with cam and exhaust only is pretty damn good...

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

It's always good to hear how the combinations I've put together stack up against other very similar combinations.

I was happy with the results being what limited modifications the car had, but sometimes you can't please everyone, and there will be some that nothing you do is good enough to please them. I just keep on moving on and doing what I do best!

therat1989

Im thrilled with this cam. I feel a good squeeze on my back and a very progressive pull all the way to redline. The car has 3.70 gears which is just enough gear to help pull me out of low rpms. I am looking forward to a Fast 92 and AI 243s. I also think my power level will be higher once that is done. For a cam this size to drive as easy as it does I am pleased. I also think the 18 lb flywheel has helped more than I originally realized as well. Thanks Martin and I will be seeing you guys soon. Lets set our goals at 460whp with a fast and ai heads.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

I will chime in a little here since my cam is decently similar and my car is around the same weight as a GTO but with worse aero. IMO the specs might look weird on paper but the extra exhaust split seems to work well even in a heavier car.

My cam is a 230/238 113+2 spec by Geoff at EPS and replaced a Comp 230/224 111+3 (never had a stock cam in this car for comparison) along with the addition of very mildly worked 799 heads (exhaust side got nothing but a clean up with sanding rolls, no porting) with only .010" taken off of them.

The difference in the low-mid is HUGE. It feels like a 50+ ft/lb gain down low (1800rpm-3500rpm) and pulls like a freight train from 4000rpm to redline (I've been shifting mine at 6700rpm even though it would probably keep working well past that).

My results also seem similar to what Martin posted with my new recent track bests:
7.50@93mph and 11.79@115mph on a 1.72 60ft in ~1200ft DA, the car has gone a 1.68 60ft before but the track wouldn't hold it that day so I was leaving lightly

The car drives better on the street with the bigger cam than the old one other than a cold start bug that is a fault in my tuning.

alans02z

iTrader: (9)

Going along with thunderstrucks post, Ive cammed a 01 z06 (100k plus miles) with the same eps 230 238 cam and made 430 400 on RPM's dyno with just a cam, Kooks, borlas and a off brand air box.

Sales@Tick

iTrader: (3)

Thank you for the kind words Matt! I'm glad you're enjoying the cam and that it is satisfactory for your needs. If we were just going to stay cam only and ultimate power production in that form was the goal, the cam would of course been completely different.

Since we had planned on getting your heads ported, and knowing how well the AI heads flow low end and mid range power were not my concern. I think with those heads and your set-up now that your goals are very reasonable.
I'm glad you are able to share your results with a very similar if not identical camshaft.

It's funny you mention the slightly extended exhaust duration helping and showing near identical results my other customer had with his Stage 2 Street Heat cam. Average power in a car that doesn't have a really loose stall or a lot of gear will 9/10 be faster than a car that makes a lot of peak power and just puts up a number on the dyno. So many people get caught up in peak numbers and don't look at the average numbers.

Looking at how flat the dyno graph I showed of the 10.4:1 LQ4 and the one of Matt's car that I started this thread for, both cars are making a boat load of average torque across the rpm range which transfers into a quicker E.T. at the track. If both of you guys had 5000-5500 stalls and 4.30 gears and compared a cam like the Polluter with that stall and gears versus your current set-ups of course the looser stall, 4.30 gear and Polluter would be faster. It's all about matching the combination to the parts being used.

alans02z

iTrader: (9)

91 in the 1/8th is good? for a cammed stalled 243 car? Your not easily disappointed are you? If that had been me I wouldve drove that thing right from the return road straight to the nearest exit all the way back to WNC to a nice little pond behind my barn where it wouldve learned how to swim.

No offense, but man your making it very easy for the people in our neck of the woods to stick with Ed Curtis, Eps, And RPM.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

DA and weight of the vehicle make a difference. GTOs are heavier and have more parasitic drivetrains than fbodies.

Around here it is common for a cam/stall/bolt on fbody to trap 88-89mph or worse due in part to the crappy air.

alans02z

iTrader: (9)

The times he posted were for a 370 in a Fbody. 3600 pounds in november in texas thru a 10 bolt. Never been to texas but i can imagine its not as good as our Nc mountain air.