464 rwhp with a 224 cam and tsp 5.3 heads (Track update)
11-17-2014, 09:03 AM
#81
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I know on a more aggressive combo the gains from the 102 would be better but I feel there are still gains from the 102 over the 90. It is just a better design plus I'm tired of buying parts twice so why not get the best one out of the gate? I know a dyno is not a 100% accurate way to verify the numbers. I think my combo should be good for 440 rwhp bare minimum but more than likely at least 450 rwhp. I feel there is a mechanical issue with my car causing me to only trap 119 mph. Bolt-on C5 Z06s trap 120 making only 380-400 rwhp and I have way better heads a bigger cam and better intake than a bolt-on Z06. The ET is entirely my fault and I know I need way more practice with my car at the track to do better.
Let's assume your car would make an average of 420whp on several dyno jets.
An experience 1/4 miler may run 123 in decent air and you went 119. That's about what I would expect considering you have very little experience with the 6 speed.
Plus you can pickup mph by making some small changes that an inexperienced racer is not going to know or do ( track tune the car, powershift, remove some weight, run in great air, keep tires aired up, run lightweight rims/skinnies, raise shift points as mentioned above, etc.).
I'm betting the car is fine but not optimized and learning the nuances of the setup will shed a great amount of et and raise mph significantly despite what some may think. This is not a knock to the OP , we all have to start somewhere. These traction limited rwd cars are not easy to pilot down the 1/4 mile and are very technique sensitive. It can't hurt to have the car checked out mechanically but if it sounds right and it passes the basic tests then look no further and go racing. Take some video and I can help you chip away at it.
11-17-2014, 01:35 PM
#82
Since you are right I won't go into much detail as to why you are wrong since you know you are right.
If you hook and the car does not bog the mph will go up not down. Bogging is where you loose mph not hooking. There is a difference but it shouldn't need to be explained.
His 60' in the video was horrible with bog, wheel hop and more bog, watch his video to see. You aren't the only one with drag strip experiences and I bet Rob has made more passes than all of us combined.
My Vette would lose a tenth and over 1 mph from a slight bog and I'm talking like .04 in the 60' causing this loss. His car is more than capable of 1.6 60's and if he drove it hard 1.5 60's and I guarantee based on what I saw in his video 3-4mph in the 1/8th mile with a lower 60'. There are a lot of variables to take into account than just hooking drops mph etc.
My first time out with my setup I only went 93mph. Next time out 97mph and next time out 101mph. Only 1/8th mile tracks were local so thats all I can compare. You know what also dropped substantially? My 60's and ET's. 7.4's, 7.20's, 7.0's all do to better driving and better launches. With your logic my mph should have went down since my ET's and 60's dropped. This was all within a 3 week span as well so the DA wasn't the culprit.
If you hook and the car does not bog the mph will go up not down. Bogging is where you loose mph not hooking. There is a difference but it shouldn't need to be explained.
His 60' in the video was horrible with bog, wheel hop and more bog, watch his video to see. You aren't the only one with drag strip experiences and I bet Rob has made more passes than all of us combined.
My Vette would lose a tenth and over 1 mph from a slight bog and I'm talking like .04 in the 60' causing this loss. His car is more than capable of 1.6 60's and if he drove it hard 1.5 60's and I guarantee based on what I saw in his video 3-4mph in the 1/8th mile with a lower 60'. There are a lot of variables to take into account than just hooking drops mph etc.
My first time out with my setup I only went 93mph. Next time out 97mph and next time out 101mph. Only 1/8th mile tracks were local so thats all I can compare. You know what also dropped substantially? My 60's and ET's. 7.4's, 7.20's, 7.0's all do to better driving and better launches. With your logic my mph should have went down since my ET's and 60's dropped. This was all within a 3 week span as well so the DA wasn't the culprit.
11-17-2014, 01:45 PM
#83
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I know on a more aggressive combo the gains from the 102 would be better but I feel there are still gains from the 102 over the 90. It is just a better design plus I'm tired of buying parts twice so why not get the best one out of the gate? I know a dyno is not a 100% accurate way to verify the numbers. I think my combo should be good for 440 rwhp bare minimum but more than likely at least 450 rwhp. I feel there is a mechanical issue with my car causing me to only trap 119 mph. Bolt-on C5 Z06s trap 120 making only 380-400 rwhp and I have way better heads a bigger cam and better intake than a bolt-on Z06. The ET is entirely my fault and I know I need way more practice with my car at the track to do better.
swapped my ls6 intake to FAST 102/ NW 102 TB and i lost power everywhere across the board except after 5900 rpm where fast outshines ls6 intake mani
here's the thread with the comparison dyno graph
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomete...-result-2.html
my car didn't even run lean after the intake swap, AFR stayed the same on dyno run right after the FAST installed.
im stumped and pissed off, im open to opinion and suggestions.
is it in the combo? i still have stock lid and stock size MAF i dont know if those gonna be a restriction.
That being said, regardless of the Dyno numbers, with a similar heads / cam / intake combo seems like trap speed can be anywhere from 118 - 124 based on the general similar weights of the Fbody and Vette. At the track we have seen guys with the A4 have slightly better 60 foot times generally, but if someone can master their launch with an M6 they can run just as well.
11-17-2014, 06:59 PM
#86
Hey man i just looked at you time slip again and it made me think about one of the guys in the car scene around here. He has a bone stock c6 zo6 and on the last night of the season at the strip he was running almost identical times as you... He was on street tires, blew the tires of in 1st pedaled 2nd a bit(he says) had a 2.1 60 like you and ran a 12.2-3 or so at 119 as well... Da that night was 175... was soooo cold... So that's kind of an interesting comparison
11-17-2014, 07:27 PM
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Hey man i just looked at you time slip again and it made me think about one of the guys in the car scene around here. He has a bone stock c6 zo6 and on the last night of the season at the strip he was running almost identical times as you... He was on street tires, blew the tires of in 1st pedaled 2nd a bit(he says) had a 2.1 60 like you and ran a 12.2-3 or so at 119 as well... Da that night was 175... was soooo cold... So that's kind of an interesting comparison
11-17-2014, 11:22 PM
#88
His car is sound also, no running problems as well. I know another guy besides him that has a stock c6 zo6 also, i've raced both cars and they are even speed wise, they have raced each other too and they were even there also
11-18-2014, 11:02 PM
#89
I just read through your other thread: https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...215-heads.html
And I don't think the heads are the problem. The PRC 2.5 5.3L heads are plenty good for what you're trying to do. Taking out fuel starvation, spark fouling, other odd dynamic at-speed issues...you're dealing with too small a cam with too narrow a LSA on a very happy dyno. I'd say your best bet is a different cam and a more honest dyno. 3400lbs at 119mph is ~400ish rwhp. Don't be afraid of a 'donkey dick' cam and end up going too small. Run something like a 232/238 on a 114 and you'll be happier. The dyno shows you've got a really strong mid-range, but it peaks early and doesn't carry out to 7,000rpm like you'd want. And did I miss what gear you're running?
And I don't think the heads are the problem. The PRC 2.5 5.3L heads are plenty good for what you're trying to do. Taking out fuel starvation, spark fouling, other odd dynamic at-speed issues...you're dealing with too small a cam with too narrow a LSA on a very happy dyno. I'd say your best bet is a different cam and a more honest dyno. 3400lbs at 119mph is ~400ish rwhp. Don't be afraid of a 'donkey dick' cam and end up going too small. Run something like a 232/238 on a 114 and you'll be happier. The dyno shows you've got a really strong mid-range, but it peaks early and doesn't carry out to 7,000rpm like you'd want. And did I miss what gear you're running?
11-18-2014, 11:25 PM
#90
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I just read through your other thread: https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...215-heads.html
And I don't think the heads are the problem. The PRC 2.5 5.3L heads are plenty good for what you're trying to do. Taking out fuel starvation, spark fouling, other odd dynamic at-speed issues...you're dealing with too small a cam with too narrow a LSA on a very happy dyno. I'd say your best bet is a different cam and a more honest dyno. 3400lbs at 119mph is ~400ish rwhp. Don't be afraid of a 'donkey dick' cam and end up going too small. Run something like a 232/238 on a 114 and you'll be happier. The dyno shows you've got a really strong mid-range, but it peaks early and doesn't carry out to 7,000rpm like you'd want. And did I miss what gear you're running?
And I don't think the heads are the problem. The PRC 2.5 5.3L heads are plenty good for what you're trying to do. Taking out fuel starvation, spark fouling, other odd dynamic at-speed issues...you're dealing with too small a cam with too narrow a LSA on a very happy dyno. I'd say your best bet is a different cam and a more honest dyno. 3400lbs at 119mph is ~400ish rwhp. Don't be afraid of a 'donkey dick' cam and end up going too small. Run something like a 232/238 on a 114 and you'll be happier. The dyno shows you've got a really strong mid-range, but it peaks early and doesn't carry out to 7,000rpm like you'd want. And did I miss what gear you're running?
11-19-2014, 05:29 AM
#91
Good luck in your next runs.
Last edited by Johnnystock; 11-19-2014 at 05:42 AM.
11-19-2014, 07:17 AM
#92
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I don't really have a problem with the heads. I was just wondering if the prc 215 heads would gain enough power to be worth the swap. I don't want a cam that carries out to 7000 rpm with a stock 2000 bottom end since the rod bolts are weaker than the 01+ bottom ends so an early peak is fine with me. I have a C6 Z06 rear end in my car and the only option as of right now is 3.42.
IMO based off watching your video while it may be a happy dyno, with a clean launch with no bogging and wheel hopping the car would do 123-124 in the same conditions. The gear is definitely hurting you from being in peak power crossing the line in 4th. Get back out there and get that car to launch without the bogging and bucking. I'd recommend a 4500-5000 quick slip if you are on a tire.
11-19-2014, 08:11 AM
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If you are going to spend the money go for the TFC CNC 215's. Since you have the C6Z diff with C5 axles you should be able to give it hell off the line if you have the right tire setup. The next thing to go will be the main shaft on the trans.
IMO based off watching your video while it may be a happy dyno, with a clean launch with no bogging and wheel hopping the car would do 123-124 in the same conditions. The gear is definitely hurting you from being in peak power crossing the line in 4th. Get back out there and get that car to launch without the bogging and bucking. I'd recommend a 4500-5000 quick slip if you are on a tire.
IMO based off watching your video while it may be a happy dyno, with a clean launch with no bogging and wheel hopping the car would do 123-124 in the same conditions. The gear is definitely hurting you from being in peak power crossing the line in 4th. Get back out there and get that car to launch without the bogging and bucking. I'd recommend a 4500-5000 quick slip if you are on a tire.
11-19-2014, 08:12 AM
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If you are going to spend the money go for the TFC CNC 215's. Since you have the C6Z diff with C5 axles you should be able to give it hell off the line if you have the right tire setup. The next thing to go will be the main shaft on the trans.
IMO based off watching your video while it may be a happy dyno, with a clean launch with no bogging and wheel hopping the car would do 123-124 in the same conditions. The gear is definitely hurting you from being in peak power crossing the line in 4th. Get back out there and get that car to launch without the bogging and bucking. I'd recommend a 4500-5000 quick slip if you are on a tire.
IMO based off watching your video while it may be a happy dyno, with a clean launch with no bogging and wheel hopping the car would do 123-124 in the same conditions. The gear is definitely hurting you from being in peak power crossing the line in 4th. Get back out there and get that car to launch without the bogging and bucking. I'd recommend a 4500-5000 quick slip if you are on a tire.
You are going thru traps in 4th way too low and I bet your shift recovery is too low and therefore you are out of the power band a good portion of the run. Add in the bog for the launch which probably pulled the motor down below 2500 rpms and that all will kill et and trap speed.
You need to do a full burnout. I'd run the shortest drag radial you can find and don't go too wide either.
I run an 8.5 wide tire on my C5Z which is probably around 240mm wide.
11-19-2014, 08:12 AM
#95
Here is a quote from one of your fellow members talking about the 102 he put on his car with a similar setup.
swapped my ls6 intake to FAST 102/ NW 102 TB and i lost power everywhere across the board except after 5900 rpm where fast outshines ls6 intake mani
here's the thread with the comparison dyno graph
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomete...-result-2.html
my car didn't even run lean after the intake swap, AFR stayed the same on dyno run right after the FAST installed.
im stumped and pissed off, im open to opinion and suggestions.
is it in the combo? i still have stock lid and stock size MAF i dont know if those gonna be a restriction.
That being said, regardless of the Dyno numbers, with a similar heads / cam / intake combo seems like trap speed can be anywhere from 118 - 124 based on the general similar weights of the Fbody and Vette. At the track we have seen guys with the A4 have slightly better 60 foot times generally, but if someone can master their launch with an M6 they can run just as well.
swapped my ls6 intake to FAST 102/ NW 102 TB and i lost power everywhere across the board except after 5900 rpm where fast outshines ls6 intake mani
here's the thread with the comparison dyno graph
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomete...-result-2.html
my car didn't even run lean after the intake swap, AFR stayed the same on dyno run right after the FAST installed.
im stumped and pissed off, im open to opinion and suggestions.
is it in the combo? i still have stock lid and stock size MAF i dont know if those gonna be a restriction.
That being said, regardless of the Dyno numbers, with a similar heads / cam / intake combo seems like trap speed can be anywhere from 118 - 124 based on the general similar weights of the Fbody and Vette. At the track we have seen guys with the A4 have slightly better 60 foot times generally, but if someone can master their launch with an M6 they can run just as well.
FAST's make power over an ls6 period. Its physics and it doesnt change, the amount will vary with every combo though the only way it wont is if its a bolt on car which doesnt need the extra air. A Cammed car will outflow the ls6 intake and benefit from a fast
11-19-2014, 08:15 AM
#96
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My plan as of now is to go with stock 317 heads and an 02+ ls6 cam with an ECS blower kit so I'm not going bother with better heads. I have an RPM stage 3 or 4 MN12 T56 with a 30 spline shaft and a pfadt carbon fiber shaft. The drivetrain is solid so minus wheel hop I'm not worried about breaking. I'm on a 305/35/18 Mickey Thompson drag radial so with the 2.97 first the car is very capable of a good 60'. I just need to do my part.
Try and get video from the outside on the back-side of the car and we can help you with whatever setup you go with. Include the whole car in the launch.
11-19-2014, 08:16 AM
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My plan as of now is to go with stock 317 heads and an 02+ ls6 cam with an ECS blower kit so I'm not going bother with better heads. I have an RPM stage 3 or 4 MN12 T56 with a 30 spline shaft and a pfadt carbon fiber shaft. The drivetrain is solid so minus wheel hop I'm not worried about breaking. I'm on a 305/35/18 Mickey Thompson drag radial so with the 2.97 first the car is very capable of a good 60'. I just need to do my part.
The faster M6 runs run the short 255 50 16 Hoosiers but they also have hundreds of passes and clutches that help with the slipping.
11-19-2014, 08:25 AM
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You need to get a 26x10.5x17 ET street (non radial) on a stock 17" speedline wheel. That is the most cost effective way to pull consistent 60's. Drag Radials are just so hard to get right on the launch with an M6 unless you have the right clutch and tons of experience. An ET street would allow you to let it eat over 5k on a nicely prepped track. I was always in the 1.5's and that is TNT days without the track prepped on kill. Get it to hook and not nose over and watch your mph go up possibly 5mph, I know it sounds crazy but I wouldn't be surprised with a clean launch and a 1.5 60' that it happens.
The faster M6 runs run the short 255 50 16 Hoosiers but they also have hundreds of passes and clutches that help with the slipping.
The faster M6 runs run the short 255 50 16 Hoosiers but they also have hundreds of passes and clutches that help with the slipping.
