goona need you help, numbers are low (update Aug 1)
#41
TECH Senior Member
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the entire air going into this thing side is a little undersized and not optimal, but shouldn't be providing enough restriction to cause the lower numbers....but who knows.
SSRA
Fast toys 98 lid, sealed pretty good
AEM dry flow filter (i kinda wish i thought about removing this during the dyno session just to see how it affected things)
85mm gm maf
nick williams 90 throttle body
stock ls7 intake
SSRA
Fast toys 98 lid, sealed pretty good
AEM dry flow filter (i kinda wish i thought about removing this during the dyno session just to see how it affected things)
85mm gm maf
nick williams 90 throttle body
stock ls7 intake
For better dyno numbers, I think the Fast Toys 104mm Lid, Green Filter Part #2021, speed density tune no MAF would help. I think those parts & SD tune is likely where most of that missing 15 hp is at.
The NW 90 TB and LS7 intake are decent but Mamo's ported intakes are well proven. The new headers & ported MSD should be a nice gain. The bigger 102 TB, ported MSD plus 2 inch Kook's headers could gain quite bit by optimizing the set up.
To finish sorting the car I'd stick with the same shop. It may be less convenient but it sounds like they are a good professional shop.
#42
11 Second Club
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Right on. Going to get one of those green filters soon.
Doing so a couple of times it was cool to see the real difference a filter made. With my car, not a 427, a paper filter held back about 18hp And the K&N held back around 3-4hp. From no filter. As others stated you have more power once you get more air in there. Also, as comparing dyno numbers is not the smartest thing, but most of us do it, try not to get too hung up. Also as comparing to another car, with different drivetrain, c6z, probably isn't too good. Understand your concern on temp/power thing. Hope you get it figured.
So how does the car feel? Have you done any pulls on it? Also what is your choice on exhaust header back?
Doing so a couple of times it was cool to see the real difference a filter made. With my car, not a 427, a paper filter held back about 18hp And the K&N held back around 3-4hp. From no filter. As others stated you have more power once you get more air in there. Also, as comparing dyno numbers is not the smartest thing, but most of us do it, try not to get too hung up. Also as comparing to another car, with different drivetrain, c6z, probably isn't too good. Understand your concern on temp/power thing. Hope you get it figured.
So how does the car feel? Have you done any pulls on it? Also what is your choice on exhaust header back?
#43
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Right on. Going to get one of those green filters soon.
Doing so a couple of times it was cool to see the real difference a filter made. With my car, not a 427, a paper filter held back about 18hp And the K&N held back around 3-4hp. From no filter. As others stated you have more power once you get more air in there. Also, as comparing dyno numbers is not the smartest thing, but most of us do it, try not to get too hung up. Also as comparing to another car, with different drivetrain, c6z, probably isn't too good. Understand your concern on temp/power thing. Hope you get it figured.
So how does the car feel? Have you done any pulls on it? Also what is your choice on exhaust header back?
Doing so a couple of times it was cool to see the real difference a filter made. With my car, not a 427, a paper filter held back about 18hp And the K&N held back around 3-4hp. From no filter. As others stated you have more power once you get more air in there. Also, as comparing dyno numbers is not the smartest thing, but most of us do it, try not to get too hung up. Also as comparing to another car, with different drivetrain, c6z, probably isn't too good. Understand your concern on temp/power thing. Hope you get it figured.
So how does the car feel? Have you done any pulls on it? Also what is your choice on exhaust header back?
yes i know about the dyno number thing, but i extremely rarely go to the drag strip so i cant really tell how well it runs without a number, and in comparison to the c6z, there arent enough ls7 f bodies to compare this too so i have to go the route. if i was within 15-20 hp of what those average i wouldnt be whining because you are right, its not a good comparison, but we do know a motor in c6z, swapped into an fbody, isn't goona swing more than a 15 hp gain in either direction. im not really hung up on the numbers.
i haven't driven it since the dyno. im waiting until i get my header back exhaust put on. it vibrates like hell, and pops like hell, and all the obnoxious exhaust notes are overpowering the ones i want to here. i have a sneaky feeling the 18" extensions are not far enough from the o2s and its pulling fresh air back in through the exhaust just a lil, possibly causing the numbers to be a little leaner than what they are, which is richening up my mixture and having ill effects on performance. also didn't do any real pulls on the way home, i still need to dial in pinion and what not as well as it still had the first batch of break in oil.
my exhaust isn't goona be the best but in my opinion its my only option. the 1 7/8 headers will stay on there for awhile, i will do the 2 inch and msd at same time, and will be running my ls1 exhaust which was 3 inch y pipe into 4 inch flow master merge, 1 dynomax bullet muffler dumped before axle. im a little lower and the 9 inch basically makes anything but a single 4 inch over the axle impossible, and i also grew to not like exhaust tips on camaros since im so used to not seeing them on mine. this setup also allows me to easily pass my inspection, i just slide off the 4 inch muffler after the y pipe and and i put on a 4 to 2.5" reduced pipe that has a muffler on it and goes out the back over the axle.
#44
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i kinda just realized it is possible the tuners dyno could be a hair low, that dyno said i made 460 with my m6 HCI ls1, i ran nitto 555 extremes, averaged a 2.3 60 foot, and was running anywhere from 12.2 to 12.5, however my mph was always 121-122. with a 1.8 60 foot i probably would have averaged 122-124, which is in the strong ls1 range. 460 isn't necessarily a strong ls1
#45
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im doing some more research and darth was right, my numbers are not that bad for the intake setup. i think my next step is exhaust as mentioned, then i think we address this possible heat soak IAT issue that im being told is common. what ill do is continue to run the truck maf, but i will go to auto zone and get an fbody IAT and put it in my lid. then ill run that one instead of using the one on the maf. then ill have a local buddy check up on the tune after the exhaust is added.....after a few more hundred miles ill leak down and compression, giving it more time to make sure the rings are goona be how they are goona be, just to check and see where things are at and ill save those numbers in case in the future i have issues and then i can use them for diagnostics then......does that sound like a decent plan?
#50
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any chance you guys know of any air filter videos/comparisons showing this green filter compared to others? i believe you guys but i like learning along the way.
Take it with a grain of salt. Yes... the video shows it flows where the others do not (less restrictive) but for all we know, the difference could still be absolutely minimal. Let me explain:
If the threshold is at the very tipping edge of something,. it still is, or it isn't. 1, or 0. I believe this is how they've set this up. I could be wrong. But they may provided *JUST ENOUGH* flow to where the others don't push the ball up, but the green filter does. For all we know, the difference could be minimal.
With that being said though, I'm currently running the green filter myself. I don't notice any difference in my 427, before or after in terms of butt-dyno. I don't have any before/after dyno numbers either. Does it flow much better than I realize? Possibly.
Just to be CLEAR, I am NOT hating on the green filter. In fact, the test/demonstration is absolutely fair, and well done - and once again, I too am running the green filter, because "why not".
I'm sure there have been dyno tests done on this with before/after results. Someone will probably chime in with a video or two of such.
#52
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Get a tune for this engine and then see what it makes.
#53
TECH Senior Member
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To help here, remember a chain (of airflow components) is only as strong as it's weakest (smallest diameter) link.
#54
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Your air flow is only as good as the smaller inside diameter on the induction side. If your cai has an ID of 2" And everything behind it is 5" Well guess what what ever that 2" ID can flow is all you'll get. Also if your CAI, tube is 5" ID and your maf is 3" Then back to 5" For tb and intake manifold then you'll only flow the 3" But the velocity of the air will be higher past the maf. Hope this make sense to you.
Get a tune for this engine and then see what it makes.
Get a tune for this engine and then see what it makes.
#55
#56
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Oh ok gotcha, when you said same tune I assumed ( like an idiot) you ment from your old build lol. My bad so yea Id look at your induction side of things and make sure it's at least 102 mm or more throughout. It'll be expensive but you have an expensive set up. Can't make good power with out enough air to feed the beast!
#57
TECH Enthusiast
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What timing did this thing end up coming in at since the compression/fuel was sort of an issue in the prior post? Second the delta of 30 points between HP and TQ is really low given the cam size, heads, etc. I think normal deltas for stick cars are like 70-80 points. I do not know much about the build/car is there enough fuel pump in there for this engine I guess the AFR would show something?
Last edited by Double06; 05-16-2019 at 08:28 AM. Reason: adding stuff
#59
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i got the exhaust on there, which isn't the best but due to space constraints and needing to pass inspection, my best bet for now is a 3 inch into 4 inch flowmaster merge dumped before axle. feels a little better in the driveability area, but this thing still needs some work on the street side........cruising at 68 mph, 1800 rpms it still wants to surge a little. its got more surge than my 346 did with a 236/238.
one thing im noticing is my coolant is fluctuating. and its easily noticeable by my oil pressure. it wants to stay at 194 according to my scanner, but then i looked down during a WOT pull and notice my oil pressure is just a steady 40 when my rpms climb. im on my second batch of BR30, ported melting 10296. i hooked the scanner and now it says im at 212. i continue driving and temp doesnt really drop. i have seen it at 3 different operating temps. at 194 my cruising oil pressure is about 43 according to gauge, at 204 or so my oil psi cruising is 40, at 212 cruising is about 37. this is an aluminum block with stock ls1 radiator.
so could this be my heat issue? i know the ls likes to operate a little warmer than other motors, but i think we can agree it shouldn't be at 212........will it make less power at 212 rather than 194 assuming the IAT isn't heat soaking? while sitting and idling in traffic for 30 minutes my IAT didn't go above 110 from what i saw but after cruising at 30 mph for 1 minute they dropped to the mid 90s and cruising was right around 75 which was pretty close to outside temp.
so i will investigate into that. will first probably start by TAKING ADVICE and drilling a hole or 2 in the thermostat and see how that helps. its a black car and temps were about 70 outside so not too hot but warm.
Last edited by Floorman279; 05-17-2019 at 09:56 AM. Reason: ......
#60
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What timing did this thing end up coming in at since the compression/fuel was sort of an issue in the prior post? Second the delta of 30 points between HP and TQ is really low given the cam size, heads, etc. I think normal deltas for stick cars are like 70-80 points. I do not know much about the build/car is there enough fuel pump in there for this engine I guess the AFR would show something?
i believe he said he got 26 degrees, under WOT my scanner does say 26 degrees.
fueling is a lonnies doubles, im pretty certain he used twin walbro 340s. only one pump was running.