TR220, two dynos, two tunes
TR220, two dynos, two tunes Well I had this done last summer but I thought this would be good for conversation.
Last spring after I added an ls6 intake, headers, catted y and a tr220 cam. I had the car tuned at DRM. Everything seemed fine but the car would surge and not idle for squat. Long story short after 4 months, 6 return trips, a new iac, and o/2 sims (which I did not need!) he still could not get the idle set.
I gave up and went to Hitech. They spent an hour tweaking the tune and fixed the idle. I went back for a complete tune on the dyno later as I did not trust the work done at DRM.
As the dyno sheets show I picked up 6 rwhp and 3 rwtq from the second tune. The baseline he did before adjusting was the same as on the prior dyno.
The most interesting thing though is that I picked up quite a bit of torque in the low rpm's. I have 350 rwtq at 3000 rpm on the second tune. I only had 325 rwtq at 3600 rpm on the first tune.
I did the cam intake and headers at the same time so it is hard for me to say what I picked up from the cam itself. I had the car tuned at DRM the spring before and had 293 rwhp and 314 rwtq. So I picked up 66 rwhp and 40 rwtq from the mods.
I personally think this is a great street cam, a huge flat torque curve and peak hp right before the red line.
Anyways I thought you guys would find this interesting. The lesson I learned is that the tune has a lot to do with the results on the dyno and that not all tuners are created equal.
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Last spring after I added an ls6 intake, headers, catted y and a tr220 cam. I had the car tuned at DRM. Everything seemed fine but the car would surge and not idle for squat. Long story short after 4 months, 6 return trips, a new iac, and o/2 sims (which I did not need!) he still could not get the idle set.
I gave up and went to Hitech. They spent an hour tweaking the tune and fixed the idle. I went back for a complete tune on the dyno later as I did not trust the work done at DRM.
As the dyno sheets show I picked up 6 rwhp and 3 rwtq from the second tune. The baseline he did before adjusting was the same as on the prior dyno.
The most interesting thing though is that I picked up quite a bit of torque in the low rpm's. I have 350 rwtq at 3000 rpm on the second tune. I only had 325 rwtq at 3600 rpm on the first tune.
I did the cam intake and headers at the same time so it is hard for me to say what I picked up from the cam itself. I had the car tuned at DRM the spring before and had 293 rwhp and 314 rwtq. So I picked up 66 rwhp and 40 rwtq from the mods.
I personally think this is a great street cam, a huge flat torque curve and peak hp right before the red line.
Anyways I thought you guys would find this interesting. The lesson I learned is that the tune has a lot to do with the results on the dyno and that not all tuners are created equal.
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Originally Posted by jrp
your reading the DMR graph wrong, the scales are different. at 3600rpm you've got 340rwtq, not 325.
You are correct, my mistake.
The torque curve on the second graph is still considerable improved though.
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 9
From: Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted by fasteddyss
You are correct, my mistake.
The torque curve on the second graph is still considerable improved though.
The torque curve on the second graph is still considerable improved though.
The scales may be different but the torque curves are far from identical.
The horizontal reference lines don't really show up in the first scan.
The first dyno shows under 340 rwtq at 3600, the second one shows almost 350 at the same rpm.
The first tune does not break 350rwtq until 4700, the second one does at 3200, granted it does go up and down, but is never as low as340rwtq.
It is quite evident that the second tune produced more torque at a lower rpm.
It's too bad they were not printed out in the same way, they would be easier to compare.
The horizontal reference lines don't really show up in the first scan.
The first dyno shows under 340 rwtq at 3600, the second one shows almost 350 at the same rpm.
The first tune does not break 350rwtq until 4700, the second one does at 3200, granted it does go up and down, but is never as low as340rwtq.
It is quite evident that the second tune produced more torque at a lower rpm.
It's too bad they were not printed out in the same way, they would be easier to compare.
I forgot I had this. This is before and after tuning at the second shop.
I must add though this is after the second shop played with my tune to fix the idle and other things that were not right that they could see in the tune.
The car felt much stronger after that initial tweak from the second shop.
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I must add though this is after the second shop played with my tune to fix the idle and other things that were not right that they could see in the tune.
The car felt much stronger after that initial tweak from the second shop.
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I think its too lean. Especially since it is on a dynojet. It would be interesting to see the A/F ratio on the street with a wideband when you have wind resistance, hills, and an overall higher load on the motor.
Originally Posted by black_z
I think its too lean. Especially since it is on a dynojet. It would be interesting to see the A/F ratio on the street with a wideband when you have wind resistance, hills, and an overall higher load on the motor.
Will that cause any problems??
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Joined: Mar 2003
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Originally Posted by fasteddyss
How much too lean??
Will that cause any problems??
Will that cause any problems??
Looks like you are right at 13.2afr. Many have run leaner; you should not have any problems... Did your tuner scan for KR???
I have my own Wideband installed and my results never differ more than .2 from the dyno sensor...
whats the specs on the cam? I put down about 10 more hp and 14 f lbs of torque. My cam is 218 228 560 lift 113 lsa. Every on tells me that is really good for a mild cam. and they can't beleave its putting out that much on stock heads. Your running lean I would fix that even if there is no knock. I got more power with a 12.8 afr. You might gain a few hp by doing that and some torque.
Last edited by rktsled; Dec 24, 2006 at 05:33 PM.
Looks like you learned a lesson about tuner's. Showing that the "dyno" #'s are pretty much the same but you feel the difference in the tune. The first shop didn't know how to tune idle,midrange,throttle response and could only do WOT timing/A/f. The second shop did the tune correct which is why the car feels so much better. I'm expecting that the 220 Cam idle's/drives pretty much like a stock car except a big improvement in throttle response and power.
11 Second Club
Joined: May 2002
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From: Peoria, AZ
Originally Posted by rktsled
whats the specs on the cam? I put down about 10 more hp and 14 f lbs of torque. My cam is 218 228 560 lift 113 lsa. Every on tells me that is really good for a mild cam. and they can't beleave its putting out that much on stock heads. Your running lean I would fix that even if there is no knock. I got more power with a 12.8 afr. You might gain a few hp by doing that and some torque.
11 Second Club
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 710
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From: Peoria, AZ
Originally Posted by rktsled
not bad. did you have the ls6 intake? when you got that number? I'm still got my stock 98 intake. Looking for an ls6 one people tell me its good for about 15rwhp.