ETP 225 small bore results. Need opinions.
03-10-2007, 01:40 PM
#1
ETP 225 small bore results. Need opinions. Previous curve was stock heads, G5X4 cam, Unported Fast 90
(Stock rockers, 921 springs, hardened pushrods, single roller timing chain)
New curve is ETP 225 heads, Streetsweeper cam, Ported Fast 90
(Still stock rockers, 3 piece pushrods, double springs, double roller timing chain)
Other mods that have stayed the same are ATI 8" converter, TH350, FLP long tubes, 3" true duals w/ x-pipe, ASP pulley, stock MAF with screen, NW 90 TB, Lid, no air filter, 12 bolt w/ 4.10's.
Same dyno.
Heads are 58cc combustion chambers, 0.040 cometic gasket, 11.8:1 compression
Cam only was 403 rwhp. I was hoping the porting of the Fast 90 would be worth 7 rwhp and the heads would be worth 40 to 50 rwhp. So I was hoping for 450 to 460 rwhp. I figured with these aftermarket castings plus the high compression that would be no problem.
We fell a little short. The converter used to flash at 4900, now it flashes at 5250. The gains from 5250 to 6000 are impressive, then there is a fairly pronounced dip and it falls flat. So peak gains were a little disappointing. We are not sure if the heads are just too big or maybe the intake just doesn't flow enough. We are going to see how it performs at the drag strip. Then we have two other cams we are going to try. Finally, we could always try some 215 heads. Opinions wanted.
(Stock rockers, 921 springs, hardened pushrods, single roller timing chain)
New curve is ETP 225 heads, Streetsweeper cam, Ported Fast 90
(Still stock rockers, 3 piece pushrods, double springs, double roller timing chain)
Other mods that have stayed the same are ATI 8" converter, TH350, FLP long tubes, 3" true duals w/ x-pipe, ASP pulley, stock MAF with screen, NW 90 TB, Lid, no air filter, 12 bolt w/ 4.10's.
Same dyno.
Heads are 58cc combustion chambers, 0.040 cometic gasket, 11.8:1 compression
Cam only was 403 rwhp. I was hoping the porting of the Fast 90 would be worth 7 rwhp and the heads would be worth 40 to 50 rwhp. So I was hoping for 450 to 460 rwhp. I figured with these aftermarket castings plus the high compression that would be no problem.
We fell a little short. The converter used to flash at 4900, now it flashes at 5250. The gains from 5250 to 6000 are impressive, then there is a fairly pronounced dip and it falls flat. So peak gains were a little disappointing. We are not sure if the heads are just too big or maybe the intake just doesn't flow enough. We are going to see how it performs at the drag strip. Then we have two other cams we are going to try. Finally, we could always try some 215 heads. Opinions wanted.
03-10-2007, 06:07 PM
#4
Well, you did go to a smaller cam. Plus, it's a big stalled A3. Also, what springs on the ETP heads? Many ET head graphs I've seen noses over at 6300ish due to improper springs. I know ET has remedied this recently with new springs, but do you have the Patriot Extreme on these heads?
Also, who ported the FAST? Many times porting it kills power if it's not done right.
Also, who ported the FAST? Many times porting it kills power if it's not done right.
03-10-2007, 09:14 PM
#6
I agree with the above posters. That big stall is zapping some dyno horsepower. The horsepower under the curve is very impressive. I also agree the the springs could be causing the dip do to harmonics.
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03-11-2007, 09:02 AM
#11
Only thing I am dissappointed in is the dip at 6100 and how it falls flat after that. The gains at 5700 are really nice (around 50) but I was hoping it would carry that all the way to red line. Instead the gains at 6500 are slightly less than 40. I was just hoping for bigger peak gains from these expensive heads since I've seen gains like this from budget heads and less compession. Maybe I would have been better off with the 215 heads? Or maybe I just need a bigger cam that will carry the gains a lot further?
The springs and pushrods were supposed to be plenty stout enough. I'm not sure about which ones they are. I'll try to find out.
The springs and pushrods were supposed to be plenty stout enough. I'm not sure about which ones they are. I'll try to find out.
03-11-2007, 07:12 PM
#15
Originally Posted by PewterZ28
Only thing I am dissappointed in is the dip at 6100 and how it falls flat after that. The gains at 5700 are really nice (around 50) but I was hoping it would carry that all the way to red line. Instead the gains at 6500 are slightly less than 40. I was just hoping for bigger peak gains from these expensive heads since I've seen gains like this from budget heads and less compession. Maybe I would have been better off with the 215 heads? Or maybe I just need a bigger cam that will carry the gains a lot further?
The springs and pushrods were supposed to be plenty stout enough. I'm not sure about which ones they are. I'll try to find out.
The springs and pushrods were supposed to be plenty stout enough. I'm not sure about which ones they are. I'll try to find out.
That dip at 6100 hurts your peak number . Without that dip your hp arch would look completely different and higher. Like others have said check out the springs etc... Very nice gains btw especially with your tranny setup and a smaller cam. cant wait to see some track times!
03-11-2007, 08:56 PM
#16
Previous compression was stock. So what is that, 10.2?
If you look at Miami99's horsepower curve it continues to climb to 6500 then falls off slowly. Also, if you measure the distances along the y axis from his previous rwhp curve to his new curve you will see the gains grow larger as rpm gets higher. Mine is the opposite and that is the only thing that is bugging me, along with the dip.
For example,
at 5500 rpm he gained approx 30 rwhp
at 6000 rpm he gained approx 40 rwhp
at 6500 rpm he gained approx 50 rwhp
Compared to mine,
at 5500 rpm approx 50 rwhp
at 6000 rpm approx 45 rwhp
at 6500 rpm approx 40 rwhp
I'm just trying to figure out what could cause that. Different cam? I thought the Streetsweeper had the same duration as the G5X4 but more lift. So if anything the Streetsweeper would be "bigger?" So shouldn't there be more gain up top than in the middle and not the other way around?
Sounds like I should try different springs. What about pushrods? What is the fattest pushrod I can throw in there?
If you look at Miami99's horsepower curve it continues to climb to 6500 then falls off slowly. Also, if you measure the distances along the y axis from his previous rwhp curve to his new curve you will see the gains grow larger as rpm gets higher. Mine is the opposite and that is the only thing that is bugging me, along with the dip.
For example,
at 5500 rpm he gained approx 30 rwhp
at 6000 rpm he gained approx 40 rwhp
at 6500 rpm he gained approx 50 rwhp
Compared to mine,
at 5500 rpm approx 50 rwhp
at 6000 rpm approx 45 rwhp
at 6500 rpm approx 40 rwhp
I'm just trying to figure out what could cause that. Different cam? I thought the Streetsweeper had the same duration as the G5X4 but more lift. So if anything the Streetsweeper would be "bigger?" So shouldn't there be more gain up top than in the middle and not the other way around?
Sounds like I should try different springs. What about pushrods? What is the fattest pushrod I can throw in there?
03-11-2007, 09:02 PM
#17
G5X4 is a 240/244 on a 108 ICL. The Streetsweeper is a 236/240 on a 109 ICL. They're going to be similar because the Streetsweeper is using an Isky lobe that's very similar to the XE-R just with slightly more valve lift - durations from .006 to .200 are very close.
It's the springs. The 225s are not too much for your car. Look into some Manton custom 3-piece pushrods... 5/16 to 3/8" tapered with .135" wall thickness.
It's the springs. The 225s are not too much for your car. Look into some Manton custom 3-piece pushrods... 5/16 to 3/8" tapered with .135" wall thickness.
03-11-2007, 09:20 PM
#18
Originally Posted by JakeFusion™
G5X4 is a 240/244 on a 108 ICL. The Streetsweeper is a 236/240 on a 109 ICL. They're going to be similar because the Streetsweeper is using an Isky lobe that's very similar to the XE-R just with slightly more valve lift - durations from .006 to .200 are very close.
It's the springs. The 225s are not too much for your car. Look into some Manton custom 3-piece pushrods... 5/16 to 3/8" tapered with .135" wall thickness.
It's the springs. The 225s are not too much for your car. Look into some Manton custom 3-piece pushrods... 5/16 to 3/8" tapered with .135" wall thickness.
You don't think my stock rockers could be causing any of this?
