Is dyno tuning worth the money?
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On The Tree
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Is dyno tuning worth the money? I dont mean if you have a problem to solve. Im just talking average bolt on's ie exhaust lid cats or headers etc (no power adders-heads-cams etc). Diablo etc handhelds claim 20 to 30 RWHP not that I believe it but I guess Im silly enough to think that could be obtained with a good HPtuner dyno tune. Problem is Im hearing we also could be talking 5RWHP. So could I get some examples listing your bolt on's your starting RWHP at the dyno and the ending RWHP after the dyno tuning?
Yes it is IMO. If you're on a budget you could get a mail order tune and go to a local dyno and take a run and log AFR with a wideband to make sure. There are places around here that only charge 60 for 2 pulls with a wideband.
If you want to pay a little more now some tuning shops offer free updates after you pay ~400+ for your initial tune.
If you want to pay a little more now some tuning shops offer free updates after you pay ~400+ for your initial tune.
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On The Tree
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After the replies Im seeing on various boards Im wondering where I got the idea that dyno tuning was a good idea and worth the money. I feel like a real idiot now . Anyone have any high performance sparkplugs that add 30RWHP that they want to sell me???
I think it is. I would not bother with a mail order tune. a dyno tune is the only 100% way to tell that your making the most power possible. If you just want to be close in making the most power then get a mail order tune.
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I'd never give anybody a tune with out seeing some of the scans or data at WOT. I've just seen so many differences in stock calibrations, that I wouldnt trust anything that came out of a box. I've seen stock MAF's needing anywhere from +-15% corrections. Plus if it's a used vehicle, you maynot know everything that's been done to that car. That's a huge liability. I do give out tunes to some of our customers who did their own install of a cam or heads, and want to be able to start their car to check for leaks, but all I say is that it'll start, and it'll drive, but keep it under 3000rpm. Even some of the hand held stuff is scary. I saw one hand held programmer giving so much timing that there was 6* of KR.
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I would say dyno tuning is the way to go. Like the above statement mentioned. One car will react differently to a mail order tune then the next car. On the dyno you see all the parameters. Plus its cool to watch.
Originally Posted by Tuner@Straightline
I'd never give anybody a tune with out seeing some of the scans or data at WOT. I've just seen so many differences in stock calibrations, that I wouldnt trust anything that came out of a box. I've seen stock MAF's needing anywhere from +-15% corrections. Plus if it's a used vehicle, you maynot know everything that's been done to that car. That's a huge liability. I do give out tunes to some of our customers who did their own install of a cam or heads, and want to be able to start their car to check for leaks, but all I say is that it'll start, and it'll drive, but keep it under 3000rpm. Even some of the hand held stuff is scary. I saw one hand held programmer giving so much timing that there was 6* of KR.
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On The Tree
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As for the knock you mentioned one tuner told me I was lean and getting knock because of it. A different tuner said he richened it up and got rid of the knock but couldnt tell me my total timing at wot. He was using a Mustang and HPtuners??
they have to drill somewhere to fit wide band O2 sensors?
a dyno I saw only used a small pipe that he put on one tip of the exhaust I think he`s using the stock O2 sensors...is that wide band tuning or he has to put one or two wide band sensors there?
a dyno I saw only used a small pipe that he put on one tip of the exhaust I think he`s using the stock O2 sensors...is that wide band tuning or he has to put one or two wide band sensors there?
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Typically the only way for sure to know what your AFR is at WOT is through a Wideband O2. Ideally you'd want the wideband in it's own bung after the collector from the exhaust manifold/header. If this is not done, or unable to be done, you can mount a Wideband O2 in a pipe and put it at the tailpipe of the exhaust. Tail pipe pick up is really only accurate at WOT when there's alot of exhuast flowing past the sensor. This is usually done on "Dyno Days" when there's not enough time to weld in a bung in every single car.
Knock could be caused by a few different things. A lean AFR is one reason. Adding more fuel does take car of this. I use HPTuners and a Mustang dyno, so your tuner not able to tell you how much timing you're seeing at WOT bothers me. I scan, log, and save every pull, total timing advance is one of the things I"m always looking at during the pull, plus it's in the tuning file, he should have just been able to look it up under one of timing tables.
I wouldn't be messing around with a MAF translator if I didn't know what my AFR is. Once I know what it is, then you can start figuring that a 2% increase to the translator will add 2% fuel. Example 13.1:1 AFR plus 2% through the translator should result in a new AFR of 12.8:1, but if you don't know what your AFR is then how do you know how much fuel to add or take away?
Knock could be caused by a few different things. A lean AFR is one reason. Adding more fuel does take car of this. I use HPTuners and a Mustang dyno, so your tuner not able to tell you how much timing you're seeing at WOT bothers me. I scan, log, and save every pull, total timing advance is one of the things I"m always looking at during the pull, plus it's in the tuning file, he should have just been able to look it up under one of timing tables.
I wouldn't be messing around with a MAF translator if I didn't know what my AFR is. Once I know what it is, then you can start figuring that a 2% increase to the translator will add 2% fuel. Example 13.1:1 AFR plus 2% through the translator should result in a new AFR of 12.8:1, but if you don't know what your AFR is then how do you know how much fuel to add or take away?
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From: florida
I will soon be doing th ls1 t56 swap in my 92 s10(the first swap) on the dyno tune,I suppose you have to take it to someone that knows how to tune the ls1?When you guys are saying dyno tune,you mean all the engine functions and sensors are up to par and at its absolute best for performance and gas mileage?I will be adding a cam for right now in my swap
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On The Tree
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Thanks Mike
I think my tuner kinda knew what he was doing but was only willing to go so far. Like he expected better results quicker and when they werent coming he converted to owell its better than when I started so thats good enough. It wasnt a challange to him-it was just a job. That might be ok if it was a couple hundred but I really expected more for $600.
I think my tuner kinda knew what he was doing but was only willing to go so far. Like he expected better results quicker and when they werent coming he converted to owell its better than when I started so thats good enough. It wasnt a challange to him-it was just a job. That might be ok if it was a couple hundred but I really expected more for $600.
Originally Posted by s10-den
I will soon be doing th ls1 t56 swap in my 92 s10(the first swap) on the dyno tune,I suppose you have to take it to someone that knows how to tune the ls1?When you guys are saying dyno tune,you mean all the engine functions and sensors are up to par and at its absolute best for performance and gas mileage?I will be adding a cam for right now in my swap
Basicly, with a dyno, you are seeing change. You will add/subtract timing/fuel to make the most power. Dyno numbers as a comparion is a bad idea.
I would only get a dyno tune after a round of mods, to be worth it. For instance, after headers and intake, get a tune. Or after a cam, get a tune. That way you are combining mods, and don't have to pay for additional tuning time very soon after. However, once you pay for a regular tune, which ranges from $300-400, future tuning sessions are much less. Ie, if you got a tune after getting all the boltons, THEN got a cam, the tuning for the cam woulnd't be the full price, maybe an extra $100. From the same tuner of course.
Some cars benefit more from a tune than others, it all depends on the car. Also ls2 cars are under-tuned from the factory, so they benefit even MORe from a tune.
It's worth it after a round of mods, because you only have to pay the full price once. I would get all the boltons, and then a tune, and you'd be sitting pretty.
Some cars benefit more from a tune than others, it all depends on the car. Also ls2 cars are under-tuned from the factory, so they benefit even MORe from a tune.
It's worth it after a round of mods, because you only have to pay the full price once. I would get all the boltons, and then a tune, and you'd be sitting pretty.
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Originally Posted by sampson
Most dynos can only see WOT. Some dynos (dynapak and dyno dynamics) can do partial throttle.
Originally Posted by rickssz
Thanks Mike
I think my tuner kinda knew what he was doing but was only willing to go so far. Like he expected better results quicker and when they werent coming he converted to owell its better than when I started so thats good enough. It wasnt a challange to him-it was just a job. That might be ok if it was a couple hundred but I really expected more for $600.
I think my tuner kinda knew what he was doing but was only willing to go so far. Like he expected better results quicker and when they werent coming he converted to owell its better than when I started so thats good enough. It wasnt a challange to him-it was just a job. That might be ok if it was a couple hundred but I really expected more for $600.
I'm sure he did, I just found it weird that he didn't tell you, I always get asked how much timing is in a car after I get done tuning it. Oh well.....
Last edited by Tuner@Straightline; Mar 14, 2007 at 06:14 PM.
Originally Posted by Tuner@Straightline
Don't forget Mustang Dyno's as well, we can even do 1/4mile simulation. Another cool feature is the vehicle simulation with grade, nice for doing towing set ups. As long as it's a Mustang Dyno with the Eddy Current Generator. Whenever we print a dyno graph we always include the PAU FORCE, which is a measure of how much resistance in ft.lbs. that the dyno is applying against the car in "real time". Makes for a good visual as to why we use the Mustang Dyno's instead of a DynoJet
