Z28 Vs 370z
11-19-2009, 04:29 PM
#302
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A built NA engine...any NA engine, will have to rely on revs, headflow and compression to make power. If you build an LS1 to make 600-700HP all motor your doing it with a cam that makes power up high in the RPMs not down low. With boost you don't have to rely on revs near as much as the torque is being multiplied for you...
11-19-2009, 05:20 PM
#303
No. Reading comprehension > then you.
A built NA engine...any NA engine, will have to rely on revs, headflow and compression to make power. If you build an LS1 to make 600-700HP all motor your doing it with a cam that makes power up high in the RPMs not down low. With boost you don't have to rely on revs near as much as the torque is being multiplied for you...
A built NA engine...any NA engine, will have to rely on revs, headflow and compression to make power. If you build an LS1 to make 600-700HP all motor your doing it with a cam that makes power up high in the RPMs not down low. With boost you don't have to rely on revs near as much as the torque is being multiplied for you...
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...-500-rwhp.html
11-19-2009, 05:34 PM
#304
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I can't think of an application where a boosted 6 cylinder would be better than a boosted or NA V8. Perhaps you could enlighten me. AN NA V8 can make just as much or more power than a boosted 6 and still weigh less. It will also likely make more torque throughout the curve. Then there's the fact that the NA V8 will have less things that can break, less heat in the engine bay, and smoother power and torgue curves...
You also never aswered my question about whether you would pick a 2jz or rb26 over an LS3...
I also don't understand why you would choose to bother to build a turbo VH45de.
The few tuners who have built them have spent huge sums of money on R&D with mediocre results (the inlet manifold issue comes to mind). The engine was just never popular enough and there is no aftermarket. Also, speaking as someone whose dealt with VH45s, I know they are larger than LS motors and heavier as well. The aluminum block is stong sure, but I've read stories where people have cracked them trying to push them too hard. You'd be better off building a SBF, SBC, or LSX motor to your desired power. It would cost significantly less and likely weigh less when all is said and done.
I mean, I really like Nissan cars and I hope to own another Z or an S13 again with a V8. I wouldn't go out of my way to put a Nissan V8 in it though just because it was made by Nissan and it sounds like that's what you're saying you would do.
You also never aswered my question about whether you would pick a 2jz or rb26 over an LS3...
I also don't understand why you would choose to bother to build a turbo VH45de.
The few tuners who have built them have spent huge sums of money on R&D with mediocre results (the inlet manifold issue comes to mind). The engine was just never popular enough and there is no aftermarket. Also, speaking as someone whose dealt with VH45s, I know they are larger than LS motors and heavier as well. The aluminum block is stong sure, but I've read stories where people have cracked them trying to push them too hard. You'd be better off building a SBF, SBC, or LSX motor to your desired power. It would cost significantly less and likely weigh less when all is said and done.
I mean, I really like Nissan cars and I hope to own another Z or an S13 again with a V8. I wouldn't go out of my way to put a Nissan V8 in it though just because it was made by Nissan and it sounds like that's what you're saying you would do.
Last edited by DiscerningZ32; 11-19-2009 at 06:16 PM.
11-19-2009, 06:09 PM
#305
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I agree, and I can't tell you how much of a wet dream it would be for me to swap an LS3/T56 in my car. BUT at the same time, there's nothing wrong with testing out new stuff and combinations, even if it's just cuz.
11-19-2009, 06:26 PM
#306
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How radical would you want to go comparing? There is a Supra and a 911 doing some amazing mph in the Texas Mile....
11-19-2009, 06:35 PM
#307
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I was thinking more about roadcourse, 1/4 mile, endurance applications etc.
I'd like to see some of the bigger garage names (LMR, Livernouis, etc.) in racing take FI V8's to the Texas Mile though. I don't think any shop has taken a large single or twin turbo LSX to the mile yet. The 6's have a strong grasp in the mile now though.
11-19-2009, 07:35 PM
#309
When have I been wrong bud? lol.
Actually their both OHV 90 degree v8s that share many design elements. They may not share any parts but then neither do the VQ30DE and VQ37VHR.
As for the VQ, they are all based on the same exact design. Nissan has done nothing but update it over its lifespan. Its like a GM 350 compared to a LT1, same engine with newer components and design elements.
Only rev up VQs from 05-06 had any known oil burning issues. Every other VQ thats been in production for nearly 20 years now has not had any known oil burning issues. Your generalizing things here. Its like saying an LS is an LS, if it was a completely different engine it would have a different name. And we all know that isnt the case. And as I already said, theres probably more new added technology and physical changes between a VQ30 and a VQ37VHR then their are between an L98 and a LS1.
11-19-2009, 07:36 PM
#310
No. Reading comprehension > then you.
A built NA engine...any NA engine, will have to rely on revs, headflow and compression to make power. If you build an LS1 to make 600-700HP all motor your doing it with a cam that makes power up high in the RPMs not down low. With boost you don't have to rely on revs near as much as the torque is being multiplied for you...
A built NA engine...any NA engine, will have to rely on revs, headflow and compression to make power. If you build an LS1 to make 600-700HP all motor your doing it with a cam that makes power up high in the RPMs not down low. With boost you don't have to rely on revs near as much as the torque is being multiplied for you...
11-19-2009, 07:40 PM
#311
No. Reading comprehension > then you.
A built NA engine...any NA engine, will have to rely on revs, headflow and compression to make power. If you build an LS1 to make 600-700HP all motor your doing it with a cam that makes power up high in the RPMs not down low. With boost you don't have to rely on revs near as much as the torque is being multiplied for you...
A built NA engine...any NA engine, will have to rely on revs, headflow and compression to make power. If you build an LS1 to make 600-700HP all motor your doing it with a cam that makes power up high in the RPMs not down low. With boost you don't have to rely on revs near as much as the torque is being multiplied for you...
I suppose you think turbocharged VQ would be better?? Talk about turbo lag, low end torque is nonexistant in those engines, even N/A. Add in a huge exhaust restriction and short manifold, plus low compression, and you have yourself a real pile of ****.
11-19-2009, 08:24 PM
#314
MazdaSpeed 3 is not the same case. It doesn't make peak torque until 3,000. You won't find a jap car with low end torque, its like an oxymoron. For some reason they like turbo lag and gutless low end power.
11-19-2009, 08:31 PM
#315
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You are right about the Cobalt SS turbo. It makes 260ft/lbs (peak torque) at only 2,000RPM. VW GTI is the same way, makes peak 207ft/lbs at only 1800RPM.
MazdaSpeed 3 is not the same case. It doesn't make peak torque until 3,000. You won't find a jap car with low end torque, its like an oxymoron. For some reason they like turbo lag and gutless low end power.
MazdaSpeed 3 is not the same case. It doesn't make peak torque until 3,000. You won't find a jap car with low end torque, its like an oxymoron. For some reason they like turbo lag and gutless low end power.
As far as the MS3 goes, the turbo spools very quickly and reaches peak boost at some ridiculously low 2500RPM or some **** like that and pulls very hard from anywhere in the powerband, more than enough to blow the tires off in 1st/2nd gear from almost any speed with T/C off. Peak torque isn't everything.
11-19-2009, 09:53 PM
#316
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No I understand and you are wrong. Here is a link to a 500 + rwhp N/A LS1 and hes making 300 ft lbs @ 2500 rpms.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...-500-rwhp.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...-500-rwhp.html
Notice how it makes more power at lower RPMs then the LS1? This is because boost multiplies torque so easily. If you were to keep making more and more power with that LS1 the peak torque would be pushed further and further in the RPM range and the low end would produce less and less torque. Just the nature of a high output NA engine.
11-19-2009, 10:15 PM
#317
And heres a dyno of a basically stock Nissan VR38...just tune...stock intake/exhaust/etc.
Notice how it makes more power at lower RPMs then the LS1? This is because boost multiplies torque so easily. If you were to keep making more and more power with that LS1 the peak torque would be pushed further and further in the RPM range and the low end would produce less and less torque. Just the nature of a high output NA engine.
Notice how it makes more power at lower RPMs then the LS1? This is because boost multiplies torque so easily. If you were to keep making more and more power with that LS1 the peak torque would be pushed further and further in the RPM range and the low end would produce less and less torque. Just the nature of a high output NA engine.
A properly built, big cube LSX will blow any Nissan out of the water when it comes to torque output.
Start talking F/I for F/I, and it just gets worse. The bone stock LS9 makes 350ft/lbs of torque at idle. Go Home.
11-19-2009, 10:43 PM
#318
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I can't think of an application where a boosted 6 cylinder would be better than a boosted or NA V8. Perhaps you could enlighten me. AN NA V8 can make just as much or more power than a boosted 6 and still weigh less. It will also likely make more torque throughout the curve. Then there's the fact that the NA V8 will have less things that can break, less heat in the engine bay, and smoother power and torgue curves...
You also never aswered my question about whether you would pick a 2jz or rb26 over an LS3...
I also don't understand why you would choose to bother to build a turbo VH45de.
The few tuners who have built them have spent huge sums of money on R&D with mediocre results (the inlet manifold issue comes to mind). The engine was just never popular enough and there is no aftermarket. Also, speaking as someone whose dealt with VH45s, I know they are larger than LS motors and heavier as well. The aluminum block is stong sure, but I've read stories where people have cracked them trying to push them too hard. You'd be better off building a SBF, SBC, or LSX motor to your desired power. It would cost significantly less and likely weigh less when all is said and done.
I mean, I really like Nissan cars and I hope to own another Z or an S13 again with a V8. I wouldn't go out of my way to put a Nissan V8 in it though just because it was made by Nissan and it sounds like that's what you're saying you would do.
You also never aswered my question about whether you would pick a 2jz or rb26 over an LS3...
I also don't understand why you would choose to bother to build a turbo VH45de.
The few tuners who have built them have spent huge sums of money on R&D with mediocre results (the inlet manifold issue comes to mind). The engine was just never popular enough and there is no aftermarket. Also, speaking as someone whose dealt with VH45s, I know they are larger than LS motors and heavier as well. The aluminum block is stong sure, but I've read stories where people have cracked them trying to push them too hard. You'd be better off building a SBF, SBC, or LSX motor to your desired power. It would cost significantly less and likely weigh less when all is said and done.
I mean, I really like Nissan cars and I hope to own another Z or an S13 again with a V8. I wouldn't go out of my way to put a Nissan V8 in it though just because it was made by Nissan and it sounds like that's what you're saying you would do.
Oh man... This is a Bench racing thread now.
That means I have to leave it to die in its on excrement.
That's cool, I forgot how sickening it was to read wesman's import bashing and a biased ranter's posts.
11-19-2009, 11:53 PM
#319
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Perhaps you could enlighten me. AN NA V8 can make just as much or more power than a boosted 6 and still weigh less.
It will also likely make more torque throughout the curve.
Then there's the fact that the NA V8 will have less things that can break, less heat in the engine bay, and smoother power and torgue curves...
You also never aswered my question about whether you would pick a 2jz or rb26 over an LS3...
I also don't understand why you would choose to bother to build a turbo VH45de.
The few tuners who have built them have spent huge sums of money on R&D with mediocre results (the inlet manifold issue comes to mind). The engine was just never popular enough and there is no aftermarket. Also, speaking as someone whose dealt with VH45s, I know they are larger than LS motors and heavier as well. The aluminum block is stong sure, but I've read stories where people have cracked them trying to push them too hard. You'd be better off building a SBF, SBC, or LSX motor to your desired power. It would cost significantly less and likely weigh less when all is said and done.
The few tuners who have built them have spent huge sums of money on R&D with mediocre results (the inlet manifold issue comes to mind). The engine was just never popular enough and there is no aftermarket. Also, speaking as someone whose dealt with VH45s, I know they are larger than LS motors and heavier as well. The aluminum block is stong sure, but I've read stories where people have cracked them trying to push them too hard. You'd be better off building a SBF, SBC, or LSX motor to your desired power. It would cost significantly less and likely weigh less when all is said and done.
I mean, I really like Nissan cars and I hope to own another Z or an S13 again with a V8. I wouldn't go out of my way to put a Nissan V8 in it though just because it was made by Nissan and it sounds like that's what you're saying you would do.
11-20-2009, 12:01 AM
#320
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Once you have your engine the static displacement is set, the next easiest way to increase torque is by changing the dynamic displacement AKA boost. With forced induction you can displace much more air then the static displacement would normally allow, this is why turbo cars make torque so easily.
I think a properly tuned a built turbocharged V6 can offer as or better power band than a NA V8 can. Look at the dyno of the basically stock VR38 I posted...very nice torque curve and power band over all. And not to mention you always have the ability to multiply power easier with a boosted engine then you do with an NA one.
I suppose you think turbocharged VQ would be better?? Talk about turbo lag, low end torque is nonexistant in those engines, even N/A. Add in a huge exhaust restriction and short manifold, plus low compression, and you have yourself a real pile of ****.