They have 99.999% of it already.
Oh well, I guess Atco won't mind our business. Now, if we can only get the remaining fart-pipers there to go join their bretheren at E-town, we would have an ideal situation. Less; annoying "angry bees"/techno din, lane closures due to the rice-a-phonies puking all over the launch pad/track, "G" attitudes, etc. MORE; run time, hot-lapping, lane choice, muscle/Americana.

We will also have to get GMHTP to quit going there (only to get sslllooowww, misrepresentative times out of LSx rides), and move to Atco. Does anyone know what binds them to that place ($$/location/freebies/etc.)??

 

You are right, they got the short end of the stick having to give such benifits.

Knowing how this would effect them 20+ years plus down the line, should have been adressed. If it was so crippling they could have laid out projections and such regulations would have not been passed.

Unless you'd like to asume the goverment back in the 60s didn't care about the automakers futures. Neither you or I were there to know what was said so we really can't be sure.

I'm not trying to cause some sort of riot or change anyones love for any car or counrty. I'd just like to dispell some myths open a friendly debate learn some things myself too.

 

Let's be real here, not even the BEST psychic/prognosticator in the universe would have been able to forsee the combination of; dark/horrid times, bad product/work ethic from Detroit, legacy costs, rise of Nippon "national pride" work ethic along with subsequent "brainwashing" of the general American public, etc., etc. IF they were good enough to have seen that, then maybe they might have been able to save 3000+ American lives one day 6 years ago. This is especially true if one is "on top" and feeling invulnerable as the General and it's domestic competitors were 40-50 years ago, NOT just the 20+ you state. Now maybe "your" Toyota (j/k ) is not so cocky, does feel some vulnerability, and therefore has the foresight to establish some failsafes (with the help/cooperation of it's government) from this point onwards, I don't know.

 

I meant that. lol I was concentrating so hard on saying what I said about the NHRA, I mixed them up! Sorry!

 

Even if toyota does offer great benefits, how many people are they employing in the US? They are ASSEMBLED in the US. There are still people all over the world being paid **** to put together their parts (just as American car companies have started to do to compete). The great benefits the offer over here is just a veneer. When you compare American automakers 20 years ago and toyota now they are two different animals. American car makers did everything in the states, so that guy assembling the rocker switches got paid well too.

So I just priced out a Tundra extended cab4x4, with a 5.7L and it was $32,625
381HP 410 Ft-lb’s will tow 10,400lbs

a Silverado 2500HD (it wouldn’t let me build a 1500 online with a 6.0) extended cab 4x4. was $30,800.
312 HP 385FtLbs will tow 12,400lbs

I don’t see any reason to buy the Tundra over the Silverado especially with the incentives GM is giving out and the new warranty they came out with.

 

i didnt read through all 4 pages but i read enough to see what was going on.
first off....i work for a Toyota dealer in the service department and i can tell you that the majority of these Recalls that everyone is hangin Toyota on are more of a Quality control situation than anything else.

i can tell you first hand that Toyota's customer service and Quality control are top notch. How many of you guys had a hard time with your "piston slap" issue on your LS1's??? how many people actually had a GM dealer step up and say, "ok, we're gonna do what we need to do to fix it"?? not me, they told me to go pound sand...so here i am with a farely bran new car with only 11k miles on it, knocking away and GM is tellin me they wont do anything about it.
Toyota is repairing, FREE OF CHARGE, engines in Sienna's, Camrys, Solaras from 99-02 if there is any sign of sludge build up. which means if you have a 00 camry with 150k miles on it and theres even the slightest bit of sluge found, they overhaul your engine, no charge. thats steppin up to the plate and taking care of people.

i agree that the Tundra is way over priced IMO...but it is one hell of a Truck compared to some of the flimsy interiors that ive seen in Dodges and GM trucks.

Raceway park chose the best Contract...not the best Truck. they DIDNT sell out. they are lookin out for them...its in their best interest right now to work with Toyota...its as simple as that.

ive works for 2 of the 3 american car companys and i can tell you first hand that when it comes to breakin down and warranty repairs....Toyota is 2 steps ahead of everyone. These toyotas come in for maintenance services and State inspections...some break down, but no where near what i used to deal with at chrysler or GM.

i personally will never buy a vehicle just to stay brand loyal or american just because. im gonna buy a vehicle that im gonna feel comfortable knowing its gonna be reliable with my child and wife in it driving around in the city..period.

 

This is EXACTLY what I was implying when I said the U.S. auto industry is an "umbrella", NOT just the big 3 (or 2.5 now ). How much of the TOY's supposed "domestic content" is supplied by U.S. owned/operated (i.e.; the money stays HERE) companies?? Believe me, they are NOT so "benevolent" that they will make a free will choice to benefit America over Japan, unless they know that they will somehow make 200% back on that decision.

 

Ive worked at both, and I find it ironic that the 2 service advisors who came from foreign make dealers have commented that they are impressed with what GM does for customers. They also do have the best warranty standard, without any catches, and minimal maintenance requirements (lowering overall cost of ownership). Im not saying they are perfect, but I do know that they stand up and do the right thing more than I ever saw when I worked in the Toyota service dept 3 years ago.

I think that you should take a look inside the new GM trucks and Tundra before you say whos interior looks flimsy. They are really building the best product yet!

 

So how bout them Mexican Avalanches?

 

Ding Ding Ding. I have never seen a track with more ricers then Etown....

 

A slew of the 3 liter V6s in Camrys/Avalons had sludge issues resulting in completely trashed motors at 60k....

 

LOL. Yeah cause evertime I drive past a construction site I see tons of Jap trucks hauling stuff....oh wait, I have never seen a Jap truck haul ****....

Weren't the Nissan Titans having huge hauling issues despite a claimed 10k lb towing capacity??

I live in NC now, pick-up trucks are pretty big here....a Jap pick-up truck is known to be about as rugged as my wife's Sonata....if any real towing/hauling is involved, their are three choices....and they are all from Detroit....

 

The 2006 foreclosure statistics are not available yet....but just keep in mind foreclosures in Michigan rose 170% from the 1st quarter of 2005 to the 4th quarter of 2005. The national average increase during that time period was 24%. So this means Michigans foreclosure rates increased by SEVEN times the national average from Q1 to Q4 of 2005....

These are real people that are being affected. I'm definately not a buy-American only sort of person but when its possible, I think we should all make the effort. When it comes to trucks, going American is the only way....

 

Heres the problem, Ford and GM could not have foreseen this. When they agreed to post-employment healthcare and the like, the average life expectancy was 60, and the retirement age was 62. They figured less then half the people who worked for them would live more then a few years beyond thier retirement.

Unfortunately what this has created, is millions more people on the healthplan then originally intended, and instead of GM douching out and cutting bene's, they have stuck it out. Unfortunately, they HAVE to stop offering post-employment healthcare if they want to survive at all.

 

the Ford F-series has been the best selling truck thats F150 through 650, if you put the stats together Chevy and GMC just 1500 through 3500 then it is GM by far... anyways Motor Trend chose the new silverado because it is undoubtedly the best there is right now, car and track also said the same and Automobile, and let me remind you Motor Trend almost never gives Chevrolet or any GM product a true positive review. Only time will tell if the new Tundra will be the next f-series or the next Titan. But what most common americans dont realize, yes they may be built in america but most of the profits go back to Japan.

As far as NASCAR is concerned the Toyota V-8 they use (which is ridiculous because toyota doesnt even make a pishrod V-8) is based off of the Dodge motor and the intake a Chevy. I dont know if any of you watched the race but Darrel Waltrip was pretty mcuh advertising toyota during the 500 broadcast, oh the camry employs 7000 and the monte and fusion arent even made in america...im sry darrel how many does GM and Ford employ in this country compared to Toyota, several hundred thousand...not including the supply factories and dealerships, etc.

This country has the perception that Toyota cars are perfect and reliable, lets see when this image was first brought about in the late 80's Chevy, Ford they has muscle cars, camaros, mustangs, and they were comparing them tot eh quality of a corrolla, come on a 300hp car verse a car that undoubtdley doesnt even have enough power to break a part, im pretty sure a go kart was faster at the time...americans perceptions are so f-ed up now its not even funny, ya u know why toyota sale are still so high???even with the immense amount of recalls....because the news us american do not advertise toyota recalls, have u watched the news? look at the GM tailgate strap scandal, give me a friggin break the news made it out to be a huge safety issue, at the same time TOYota was recalling all highlanders from 01-05, "ON CERTAIN SPORT UTILITY AND HYBRID VEHICLES, THE TWO RETAINING CLIPS FOR THE DRIVER'S SIDE FORWARD CENTER CONSOLE CAN BECOME LOOSE. IF BOTH CLIPS SEPARATE FROM THE FLOOR CARPET COVER, THE COVER MAY LEAN TOWARD THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL, CAUSING INTERFERENCE WITH THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL ROD." now i dont remember seeing this advertised in magazines and on the news nearly as much if not at all as the tailgate straps, ur telling me this isnt a safety issue????? i will never buy a Toyota, and i have lost much respect for the many ppl that i know that have just because there "simply the best"......according to who?????????

 

have u taken a test drive in a new silverado or even seen the interior close-up????? until u do dont say anything i have seen both and driven both and i still say the silverado is a nicer truck by far, toyota has a long way to go to make a true halfton

 

Exactly. The Tundra is a mish mosh of a half ton trying to be a heavy duty. Why dont we talk for a moment about the fuel economy it lacks, or the pillar design of the extended cab? They built a truck by WATCHING the ones that work.

 

Dude, are you saying the late 80's pony cars had 300 hp? Post gas crisis cars were more anemic then the NBA. New Corollas probably have more power then an 89 camaro. Not to mention they were comparing the corolla to cars in thier class i.e. cavalier and the like. The notion came from the 2.8 v6 being a ******* turd box.

Your using some scewed perseptions to draw your conclusions, yes ford and GM only produced muscle cars in the late 80's. Come on man.

The reason the passenger cars got a reputation for having beter quality is because it's true. Lets take 100 Corollas, 100 Civics, 100 Cavaliers 100, meteros, 100 Escorts and 100 Festivas from 1988 and see which ones have had the least problems. It's probably the Escort actually.

I'm not a fanboy for either side, if I was anything I'd be a Pontiac fanboy. But I refuse to let blind nationalism tell me where to put my money.

 

i never said they only prodcued muscle cars there pal...and as a whole ppl were comparing toyota the company to chevrolet the company...in that comparison toyota had all economy cars so of course there quality was better and maybe in fact it was, but they were comparing toyota the worlds largets manufacturer of 4 cylinders to chevrolet and ford, who also produce muscle cars and heavy duty trucks which when a company is included in a quality study all of its vehicles are included not just specific ones...

 

Exactly.. the F-150/Mark LT and Silverado/GMC are light trucks.

Toyota is adding bigger brakes, rotors, calipers, heavier tranny, etc comes at a cost. Fuel Economy and overall price.

They will push Toyota by wooing the typical truck buyer.. but Chevy and Ford will retain the loyal Truck crown.