I am building my own turbo system.
10-13-2003, 09:19 PM
#1
I am building my own turbo system. OK, I have been doing alot of research on putting to gether my own turbo system. I belive I am going to go with twin tubos from either turbenotics or Inovation, both out of CA. What i want to get from all of y'all is where do you think the best place would be to set the turbos at on the car. I was thinking of three different places.
1. My favorite idea and what I think would be a great place is right infront of the engine between the radiator. Have the compressor housing facing eachother or the turbine housing facing eachother. I like this idea because it limits the amount of compressed air pipping. I am thinking of either putting two intercoolers on it were ATI putts thiers at or running one large intercooler infront of the engine radiator. doing this I ould bring the air back up the front of the radiator and turn it to go straight into the throttle body. I could fabricate a new air filter box that would sit in the same place as the factory one does and feeds bothe turbos. I would have to build new exhaust manifolds for both passanger and driver side. These would go towward the front to each turbo. Then I would have to route the exhaust from the rear of the turbos back down both sides and under the new maniflods joining the factory converter locations. I find only one fault in doing this. I am not sure if there is enough room with the AC compressor still being used. Everything would be rapped with insulatted blankets to hold the heat in and noe melt anything around it.
2. If there is room then remove the cats, place the turbos in that location utilizing the factory exhaust manifolds. This is what it looks like LPE did with their Twin Turbo Corvette set up. I would then have to run new exhaust all the way out the back and find a new place for the converters. I would still run into the problem of having enough room to route the Compressed air by the AC Compressor. also I would have to run pipping back to the front of the car for the inlet air. I do not like the idea of having the inlet air and air filters below the car and behind the tires. This would make it very hard to change or clean the air filters and they would be getting dirty very quickly. But this is one option.
Both option one and two would require the remounting of the Alternator.
3. Since I have a ram air hood I have extra room over my engine. I could build new manifods going up and over the engine to place the turbos on top of the engine. I am not sure if there is enough room. I would have to not only insulate everything but also biuld heat shields. Now this method would be easier to do.
So what do y'all think and does any of y'all have any other ideas? This is not a maybe project but a definatly going to do thing. I have my prices on all the parts. I will begin buying everything after January. I hope to have everything finished by Summer of 2004. I plane to make 8 to 10 psi of boost with practicley no lag. I hope to be able to make well over 500rwhp with this type of set up. I will have to change the fuel system and tune the car. I know all of these things. I just need some input as to were would be the best place to put everything on the vehical. Thanks guys.
Scott Graham
Odessa, Texas
1. My favorite idea and what I think would be a great place is right infront of the engine between the radiator. Have the compressor housing facing eachother or the turbine housing facing eachother. I like this idea because it limits the amount of compressed air pipping. I am thinking of either putting two intercoolers on it were ATI putts thiers at or running one large intercooler infront of the engine radiator. doing this I ould bring the air back up the front of the radiator and turn it to go straight into the throttle body. I could fabricate a new air filter box that would sit in the same place as the factory one does and feeds bothe turbos. I would have to build new exhaust manifolds for both passanger and driver side. These would go towward the front to each turbo. Then I would have to route the exhaust from the rear of the turbos back down both sides and under the new maniflods joining the factory converter locations. I find only one fault in doing this. I am not sure if there is enough room with the AC compressor still being used. Everything would be rapped with insulatted blankets to hold the heat in and noe melt anything around it.
2. If there is room then remove the cats, place the turbos in that location utilizing the factory exhaust manifolds. This is what it looks like LPE did with their Twin Turbo Corvette set up. I would then have to run new exhaust all the way out the back and find a new place for the converters. I would still run into the problem of having enough room to route the Compressed air by the AC Compressor. also I would have to run pipping back to the front of the car for the inlet air. I do not like the idea of having the inlet air and air filters below the car and behind the tires. This would make it very hard to change or clean the air filters and they would be getting dirty very quickly. But this is one option.
Both option one and two would require the remounting of the Alternator.
3. Since I have a ram air hood I have extra room over my engine. I could build new manifods going up and over the engine to place the turbos on top of the engine. I am not sure if there is enough room. I would have to not only insulate everything but also biuld heat shields. Now this method would be easier to do.
So what do y'all think and does any of y'all have any other ideas? This is not a maybe project but a definatly going to do thing. I have my prices on all the parts. I will begin buying everything after January. I hope to have everything finished by Summer of 2004. I plane to make 8 to 10 psi of boost with practicley no lag. I hope to be able to make well over 500rwhp with this type of set up. I will have to change the fuel system and tune the car. I know all of these things. I just need some input as to were would be the best place to put everything on the vehical. Thanks guys.
Scott Graham
Odessa, Texas
10-13-2003, 09:34 PM
#3
Re: I am building my own turbo system. T3/T4B with 60 trim and .82 A/R 6"compressor housing with 3" inlet. I have not yet resived the Drawings on the rest of the dementions but I should get them tomorrow. I am expecting the turbos to be around 12" long.
10-14-2003, 06:35 AM
#6
Re: I am building my own turbo system. We are looking for 550+ rwhp. That size turbo is the size al of the turbo companies have sugested to me. Of course that is with a twin turbo set up not a single. I am wanting to go twin turbo.
Yes the oil lines can be an issue if I mount the turbo too low. If I keep it up high enough to alow for the oil to drain back into the pan, I should have no problem.
Yes the oil lines can be an issue if I mount the turbo too low. If I keep it up high enough to alow for the oil to drain back into the pan, I should have no problem.
10-14-2003, 08:10 AM
#7
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Re: I am building my own turbo system. forget an intercooler (unless its air/water), just use water/alky and consolidate some plumbing.
you could go as far as to use DFI and mount the turbo right off the TB with the water nozzle in between. Then run two logs (like the ones harlan made for the LT1) that go into the turbo. I'd use something more like a real t76-qtrim (not like ttech's "t76." you'll probably have to mount the turbo just below the tb, move the rad. and ditch a/c, but it'd still be pretty easy.
or you could use 2 and mount them like harlans.
you could go as far as to use DFI and mount the turbo right off the TB with the water nozzle in between. Then run two logs (like the ones harlan made for the LT1) that go into the turbo. I'd use something more like a real t76-qtrim (not like ttech's "t76." you'll probably have to mount the turbo just below the tb, move the rad. and ditch a/c, but it'd still be pretty easy.
or you could use 2 and mount them like harlans.
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10-14-2003, 08:22 AM
#8
Re: I am building my own turbo system.
forget an intercooler (unless its air/water), just use water/alky and consolidate some plumbing.
you could go as far as to use DFI and mount the turbo right off the TB with the water nozzle in between. Then run two logs (like the ones harlan made for the LT1) that go into the turbo. I'd use something more like a real t76-qtrim (not like ttech's "t76." you'll probably have to mount the turbo just below the tb, move the rad. and ditch a/c, but it'd still be pretty easy.
you could go as far as to use DFI and mount the turbo right off the TB with the water nozzle in between. Then run two logs (like the ones harlan made for the LT1) that go into the turbo. I'd use something more like a real t76-qtrim (not like ttech's "t76." you'll probably have to mount the turbo just below the tb, move the rad. and ditch a/c, but it'd still be pretty easy.
????????????????????
um yea????????
will be easier and reach your goals with a used premade kit, fabricating is hard, most people give up, havent heard some one making a turbokit themselves and finishing out the project, hopefully harlan will break this threory and be the first one to get it running (as im sure he will)
10-14-2003, 08:35 AM
#9
Re: I am building my own turbo system. Water injection is out of the question for my car. I am trying to build a system for every day daily driving use. I will retain the AC compressor. I might have to relocate it somewere just like I belive I will have to relocate the Alternator. But that would not be too hard to do either. It will be intercooled so I can utilize the most boost on 91+ pump fuel. I want to be gunning for the exotic sports cars of the world. Not just quarter mile times. Lag time is very important to me. I want to minimize it as much as possible. Thats the reason for the small turbo. Max air flow with max boost pressure is important too. Thats the reason for twins. I believe I can minimize the throttle response, turbo lag, and maximize air flow and boost with Twin T3/T4B's. I believe I can utilize 8 to 10 psi of boost on pump fuel with tunning, and choosing the right intercooler or intercoolers. I just have the question of were would be the best place to place all these things in the car. If my plans go right I might come up with something that anyone can easily copy. I am working on drafting blueprints for the components that need to be fabricated. I am trying to build a system that will go on a stock LS1 F-body. Something I might consider selling in the future. After we are finished with this my car, we are going to do the same thing with the 2003 ZO6 Vette. I have looked at LPE's twin turbo system, very nice systems, but they have some very negative points to the. First off they are listed at $22,000 . Now that is outragous! Second, they placed the intercoolers and air fiters right in front of the front tires. Talk about a waist of time. Do they not stop to think about how fast these parts will get dirty? I guess they did not design a system to actually be driven on a daily basis. Well for $22,000 I would expect the vehical to be able to be driven all the time. It looks to me that they are using T3 turbos with waistgates mounted in the turbos. These turbos are what I would call a bit small for the job but they still biuld 500+rwhp on their cars.
If a person was looking for nothing but track use then water injection would be an option. But it is like just running NO2 its not there all the time, and you have to always fill it. Its just not practical for an every day street demond.
If a person was looking for nothing but track use then water injection would be an option. But it is like just running NO2 its not there all the time, and you have to always fill it. Its just not practical for an every day street demond.
10-14-2003, 08:51 AM
#10
Re: I am building my own turbo system.
dont forget about routing the oil lines and having room for the waste gates, I wouldnt put anything between the radiator and engine, you will definately get heating problems
As for the waist gates, I think they could be mounted on each side and at the rear of the engine. Dumping extra exhaust gases straight from the rear of the manifolds into the downpipes. There is plenty of room there for this. The only draw back to this would be the need to lift the car to change.
As for the oil lines, I have two conserns there. One is to mount the turbos high enough to let the turbo oi drain drain back into the engine oil pan. Second, will the factory LS1 oil system be able to supply the oil needed for two turbos and still suply the engine with all it needs? I might have to look into some type of High Volume pump or something. I don't even know if anyone is makeing one for the LS1 right now. Does any one have any ideas on the oil system?
10-14-2003, 09:00 AM
#11
Re: I am building my own turbo system.
forget an intercooler (unless its air/water), just use water/alky and consolidate some plumbing.
you could go as far as to use DFI and mount the turbo right off the TB with the water nozzle in between. Then run two logs (like the ones harlan made for the LT1) that go into the turbo. I'd use something more like a real t76-qtrim (not like ttech's "t76." you'll probably have to mount the turbo just below the tb, move the rad. and ditch a/c, but it'd still be pretty easy.
you could go as far as to use DFI and mount the turbo right off the TB with the water nozzle in between. Then run two logs (like the ones harlan made for the LT1) that go into the turbo. I'd use something more like a real t76-qtrim (not like ttech's "t76." you'll probably have to mount the turbo just below the tb, move the rad. and ditch a/c, but it'd still be pretty easy.
????????????????????
um yea????????
will be easier and reach your goals with a used premade kit, fabricating is hard, most people give up, havent heard some one making a turbokit themselves and finishing out the project, hopefully harlan will break this threory and be the first one to get it running (as im sure he will)
The 2003 ZO6 Vette probly will not start until the summer of 2004. But I think it will go much faster then the first one due to the fact that all the experimenting should be completed on my car.
Then we will probley do the 1985 L98 Vette after that. That one should be very easy since there is more open room to work with.
10-14-2003, 09:33 AM
#12
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Re: I am building my own turbo system. I would do a single front mount intercooler. (big as you can fit)
Twins sound like a good idea if you have the room. Also the high pressure oil feed line is adequate (you can Tee off that single line to each turbo and have gravity feed back to the pan.
The heat is going to be killer. Will be interesting to see how you insulate it.
With the front mount intercooler you will not be able to use a lid most likely. Better to use a large conical K&N filter routed somewhere off each turbo. (Battery relocation to the trunk with airfilter in pass side fender area works well.
I dont know how much room you'll have with AC in there. You may need to look at pinning the hood on the front two corners and remove the stock hood latch to make room for the discharge tube to the throttle body. (from the cooler)
Good luck with it!
Chris
Twins sound like a good idea if you have the room. Also the high pressure oil feed line is adequate (you can Tee off that single line to each turbo and have gravity feed back to the pan.
The heat is going to be killer. Will be interesting to see how you insulate it.
With the front mount intercooler you will not be able to use a lid most likely. Better to use a large conical K&N filter routed somewhere off each turbo. (Battery relocation to the trunk with airfilter in pass side fender area works well.
I dont know how much room you'll have with AC in there. You may need to look at pinning the hood on the front two corners and remove the stock hood latch to make room for the discharge tube to the throttle body. (from the cooler)
Good luck with it!
Chris
10-14-2003, 10:29 AM
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Re: I am building my own turbo system. Yep, sorry - did not realize you were doing twins - that turbo(s) should then be fine.
Regarding fitament, I think Harlan's setup is one of the cleanest looking routing jobs out there, but if you keep the AC you are definitely going to have to get creative. It was already mentioned, but I would make sure you have some good elevation between your turbos and oil pan as scavenger pumps are definitely to be avoided.
Also I would suggest starting with some nice thick flanges (1/2") - you can just get the cut out of some plate using manifolds or headers as a template. With thinner flanges there can definitely be warpage issues.
If you haven't ordered anything yet I would also consider going with V-bands style fittings over the normal flanges - much easier to work with, and a bit more forgiving when it comes to fitament.
Regarding fitament, I think Harlan's setup is one of the cleanest looking routing jobs out there, but if you keep the AC you are definitely going to have to get creative. It was already mentioned, but I would make sure you have some good elevation between your turbos and oil pan as scavenger pumps are definitely to be avoided.
Also I would suggest starting with some nice thick flanges (1/2") - you can just get the cut out of some plate using manifolds or headers as a template. With thinner flanges there can definitely be warpage issues.
If you haven't ordered anything yet I would also consider going with V-bands style fittings over the normal flanges - much easier to work with, and a bit more forgiving when it comes to fitament.
10-14-2003, 10:59 AM
#14
Re: I am building my own turbo system. Those are very good ideas. I like them both.
as for the filter box. I was thinking of something along the lines of making a stainless steel box with the outlet of the intercooler coming straight up into the bottom of it. Then have the pipping in it turn and go straight out the back in the same location as the factory. That would make it to were no pressurized air would actually be out side of the internal pipping. Then install on two outlets coming off the back that would send filtered air to each turbo. By doing this I should be able to utilize the factory location of the filter box, keep all the piping clean and to a minimum. I have not gotten to the part of the hood latch yet. I will probley make a new assembley for the factory hatch. Any other ideas? thanks guys.
as for the filter box. I was thinking of something along the lines of making a stainless steel box with the outlet of the intercooler coming straight up into the bottom of it. Then have the pipping in it turn and go straight out the back in the same location as the factory. That would make it to were no pressurized air would actually be out side of the internal pipping. Then install on two outlets coming off the back that would send filtered air to each turbo. By doing this I should be able to utilize the factory location of the filter box, keep all the piping clean and to a minimum. I have not gotten to the part of the hood latch yet. I will probley make a new assembley for the factory hatch. Any other ideas? thanks guys.
10-14-2003, 10:59 AM
#15
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Re: I am building my own turbo system. I disagree with your logic regarding the water/alky. I have a 5 gallon cell in the rear hatch that holds my water/alky mix and it lasts for months. Now if you go WOT more often than me then of course you will go thru it faster but your not going to be filling it all the time like you make it seem. It's very streetable. I would think about it if I was you. the benifits of less/simplified plumbing, cooler combustion chambers, high octane, etc... are well worth filling that tank every few weeks/months IMO.
10-14-2003, 11:12 AM
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Re: I am building my own turbo system. spooltime on a t76 with a v8 is not bad at all.
water is the best cooler you could ever have, plus with more tubing, less space.
good luck keeping ac and having a complete turbo system. Harlan has 0 hvac or emissions pieces in that engine bay. if you want to keep it all and run twins......i don't think it will happen unless you carbon copy incon's mounting...then you would need scavenge pumps and all that.
but....its your rodeo, not mine. id love to see any pics, drawings, whatever of anything you come up with...if its good...people will buy it. Just dont market is here.
water is the best cooler you could ever have, plus with more tubing, less space.
good luck keeping ac and having a complete turbo system. Harlan has 0 hvac or emissions pieces in that engine bay. if you want to keep it all and run twins......i don't think it will happen unless you carbon copy incon's mounting...then you would need scavenge pumps and all that.
but....its your rodeo, not mine. id love to see any pics, drawings, whatever of anything you come up with...if its good...people will buy it. Just dont market is here.
10-14-2003, 11:48 AM
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Re: I am building my own turbo system.
spooltime on a t76 with a v8 is not bad at all.
water is the best cooler you could ever have, plus with more tubing, less space.
good luck keeping ac and having a complete turbo system. Harlan has 0 hvac or emissions pieces in that engine bay. if you want to keep it all and run twins......i don't think it will happen unless you carbon copy incon's mounting...then you would need scavenge pumps and all that.
but....its your rodeo, not mine. id love to see any pics, drawings, whatever of anything you come up with...if its good...people will buy it. Just dont market is here.
water is the best cooler you could ever have, plus with more tubing, less space.
good luck keeping ac and having a complete turbo system. Harlan has 0 hvac or emissions pieces in that engine bay. if you want to keep it all and run twins......i don't think it will happen unless you carbon copy incon's mounting...then you would need scavenge pumps and all that.
but....its your rodeo, not mine. id love to see any pics, drawings, whatever of anything you come up with...if its good...people will buy it. Just dont market is here.
It will take a while, but can be done.
10-14-2003, 12:25 PM
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Re: I am building my own turbo system. Have you taken a look at the Incon setup for f-body for fitment, etc. Its pretty much laid out like you want. You would have mount the turbos higher so you could gravity drain back.
Gary
Gary
10-14-2003, 12:32 PM
#19
Re: I am building my own turbo system. hvac is gay.
but notice on harlans set up, no ac, no heater, so hes got more room to play with, i still dont know how CAS fits, with the turbos (i heard some one had T60s) and is high enough for gravity feed.
but it sounds like you guys have a lot to learn about turbos and the ls1 before attempiting such a feat, i would suggest reading corkey bells "maxiumu boost" good book to read.
and about the oil lines, first off the ls1 oil pump has more then enough power to feed the turbos, actually it gives it to much pressure. I had to put a restricter on my turbo to get it to stop smoking with the excess pressure. A turbo requires little oil pressure, if it gets more then 60psi it will press past the seals in the turbo and smoke.
but notice on harlans set up, no ac, no heater, so hes got more room to play with, i still dont know how CAS fits, with the turbos (i heard some one had T60s) and is high enough for gravity feed.
but it sounds like you guys have a lot to learn about turbos and the ls1 before attempiting such a feat, i would suggest reading corkey bells "maxiumu boost" good book to read.
and about the oil lines, first off the ls1 oil pump has more then enough power to feed the turbos, actually it gives it to much pressure. I had to put a restricter on my turbo to get it to stop smoking with the excess pressure. A turbo requires little oil pressure, if it gets more then 60psi it will press past the seals in the turbo and smoke.