BIG_MIKE2005

iTrader: (116)

Alright, I'm a total newb to boosted applications & I'm a little confused on this. I have been doin searches & lots of reading in this section for about a week now only to not find a solid anwser on this subject.

I have seen people running stock, Be Cool, Ron Davis, ect.... Now what exactly determines needing a different radiator besides waiting to see if your gonna overheat?

I have seen several different combos in my searches from mild to pretty damn stout running the stock radiator without issues. But then I see others say for example with a less potent combo making less boost & HP but they are overheating on the stocker & need to upgrade.

I have also seen where some had trouble fitting a Be Cool in with a Procharger & the inlet hat. And it only fit with modification to the radiator support. I get the feeling this is just one of those trial & error deals but I just wanted to see if there are certain determining factors I'm overlooking.

Also how much really does the intercooler of your choice effect this? Say running a good FMIC vs the 2 smaller supplied Procharger intercoolers that come with a standard D1SC kit? I'm very open on this & would like some experienced advice from other boosted members who possibly have already had to deal with this. And is there any extra additive any of you add to the cooling system to help keep temps in check, like that Redline water wetter stuff? If so are you still running Dexcool or the old fashion Green antifreeze?

I'm Tryin to plan out a future build for a 347 with a D1SC & plan on running about 10-12# boost. It get fairly hot around here in the summer & this car will be a daily driver seeing about 300+miles a week. So keeping my temps in check will be a priority.


Thankx in advance to any who can shed some light on this.

code4

iTrader: (30)

With the procharger kit you're stock fans won't fit without mods. I don't think the stock radiator has any limitations really other than it's location/size. I run a cheapy upright radiator becuase I like the space for the front mount turbo. I think it looks better too.

I had heating issues at first with a single fan so I went dual. I think one of the most important things to keep it cool is a good fan system WITH shroud. My car now can handle stop & go traffic in 100 degree weather.

BIG_MIKE2005

iTrader: (116)

See thats where my curiousity peaks about it all. So if just adding some good aftermarket fans "should" fix overheating issues whats the point of buying a aftermarket radiator at all then?

Also I have read both ways about the shroud deal too. Some say the shroud holds some extra heat in so they attach a couple aftermarket slim fans directly to the radiator & do away with the shroud.

code4

iTrader: (30)

shroud is the only way to go. Yeah that is the point most guys are going aftermarket radiators for space constraints.

BIG_MIKE2005

iTrader: (116)

But aren't most the aftermarket radiators for the LS1 cars actually dimensionally larger? So wouldn't that make you have less space between the radiator & front of the engine, unless you modify the radiator supports?

I thought maybe it had to do with the stocker having the composite ends & possibly getting brittle with the extra heat from say a turbo being mounted close to it.

code4

iTrader: (30)

I can't think of anyone that moved the radiator for other than needed space. So yes you have to modify the front support or some other part of the car to get it mounted. The stocker works fine except unless it's in the way.

Here's mine before i installed the dual fans: https://ls1tech.com/forums/6809574-post15.html

BIG_MIKE2005

iTrader: (116)

Thats a pretty slick set-up. I'm still quite a ways out on my build but I'm tryin to read & learn as much as I can until then. Along with learning what other might have had to do after installs to make everything operate efficiently so I hopefully only have to do this once, LOL.

ChevyChad

iTrader: (50)

The stock radiator sux ballz! Have you seen that POS? Its less than 1" thick core. And add to the equation a single fan that comes with the procharger setup and 100°+ days in oklahoma heat.. Yea man, you are begging to overheat even without the AC on! The reason you see different results on here Mike is because of peoples location. The lucky people who can make it on the stock radiator with a procharger setup are all in cooler states I guarantee it. You need to be looking at what people are doing to keep cool in the OK and TX areas then make your decisions, but having been there and done it myself in the same city you live in, I can tell you right now you will need something better than stock with a procharger setup. You can try it without and see if it works, but I'd bet you anything you will still run hot in the summer.

And FWIW, the griffin radiator I have is an exact replacement for the fbody, all the dimensions are the exact same except the 3" core. The people getting different sized radiators are doing it so they can stand them up straight vertical and make more room under the hood for their setups.

BIG_MIKE2005

iTrader: (116)

Alrighty sir Chad. You know I'm gonna take you & Trust's advice. I was just wondering about this since I had read the mixed results. Guess I need to start looking at peoples locations under their name too on some of this stuff.

But hey, at least I'm using search & asked a valid question, LOL. PM me the info on the Griffin you bought & I'll just plan on buying the same one for my build homie. I know if you already tested it in our weather & it works while the stocker doesn't then thats what I'll have to do as well.

I have discovered REAL quick that all this FI stuff is more complicated than N/A builds which was all I had looked at doin until recently. So I'm gonna have to train my brain to change my thought process on some of this stuff so I can try to get it all right the first time around.

conan

iTrader: (5)

I agree with "chevychad", I am still on the stock radiator with the single big fan from procharger and a 160* stat. The highest out side air temps we get here in park city ut are 90* for maybe 2 weeks a year. The temps drop to 40-50 deg every night in summer. I also have the twin intercoolers so I dont have the heat going right in to the radiator. Also my A/C is gone so I dont have that core either. The highest coolant temps I have ever had is around 220* on a 90* day of beating on the car. You can add a second small fan with the big fan from procharger to help but if you have very hot days and stop and go traffic a bigger core might be in your future.

BIG_MIKE2005

iTrader: (116)

Yea, I'll be piecing together my kit as well so adding extra fans is no biggie. I figure I'll probably add some to my FMIC like Chad did as well.

ChevyChad

iTrader: (50)

I dunno the part# for the griffin I have. I bought it slightly used on here on tech.. But it was a direct replacement. Im sure you can find the part number by searching in summit or something

BIG_MIKE2005

iTrader: (116)

Only place I found it listed was from Speed Inc. for $464 with part#GR598ae-jxx

Looks like I got some saving up to do, LOL. Good thing I planned this build out to take a while

ChevyChad

iTrader: (50)

Wow! I think I paid like $200 for mine or something like that.. Another advantage you have by planning it out and takin your time, you can just sit and wait for good deals to come along in the for sale section

BIG_MIKE2005

iTrader: (116)

Yes sir, thats my plan exactly.

I will be on the hunt for a mint D1SC at bonus time as that will be my most expensive part to buy. If my bonus is close to what it was last year I'm payin off Tiff's new car & buying a D1SC head unit for shizzle homie, LOL.

airforcemanss

iTrader: (23)

your not the only newb to this turbo stuff. i have no idea but to read and research. so my question: a dual fan setup w/ a manial switch and with a big front intercooler so be ideal for florida weather? i plan on moving there in the future. does the thickness have to do with how the cold the IC will be?

turbot

iTrader: (6)

I don't live in a cool state (Florida). Not usually 100 thought I have a stock radiator sat up with no cooling problems with the air on. Of course I have a ws6 and the hood snorkels blow right in the radiator. If you by a Griffin try to get one that has welded tank and not the crimped tanks in case you have alter it down the road.

Elite_Hot_Rod

I've got a Griffin radiator sitting in my garage if you don't want to go with a new one. I also have a Meziere elctric water pump but it's not for a street car.

Edit: It also has 1 electric fan on it already. I can get the part number tonight when i get home if you are interested, Lemme know.

Big_Bird_WS6

iTrader: (7)

ok the stock ls1 is .75 thick. i am going to run the LT1 raditor. fits right back in there and is 1.5" think. twice the size

dlandsvZ28

As pointed out above when addressing this issue - when reviewing the responses you have to compare apples to applies. For example a car with an ATI D1SC in Texas with an M6, vented hood, and all AC parts removed will probably not overheat nearly as often or not at all compared to an A4 car with an unvented hood and running AC.

They are:
ATI Procharger or not?
Region of country - Texas vs Minnesota?
AC installed and used or removed? It's the AC, when on, that spikes the temps.
M6 or A4 - an A4 will always run much hotter + heat soak.
A tranny temp cooler completely isolated from the radiator rather than running in series.
Coolant ratio - 100 percent water, 25-75 (coolant 25 - water 75), or 50-50? 100 percent water and water wetter cools the best.
AC Condensor is perfectly clean for maximum airflow.
Stock placement of the radiator?

So what's the source of overheating?

It's the AC condensor in most cases. The reason is because all air that reaches the radiator passes through the AC condensor first - even when you are not using the AC. The flow of air hits the air dam under the bumper and is sucked up through the plastic cavity and through the AC condendor and then through the radiator fins. This path is certainly not a very efficient path especially when the car is not moving or moving slowly in stop and go traffic.

The AC condensor gets hot with AC on and is cooled as air flows through it. However all of the super heated air that passes through the AC condensor is passed through the radiator cooling fins by one or more puller fans. Ideally you want ambient air to pass through the radiator to transfer heat, not super heated air from another source.

To make matters worse, even if you turn the AC off it still takes awhile for the AC condensor to cool thereby allowing more hot air to be pushed off that is still hot as it passes through the radiator.

Knowing these facts you can promote better cooling by doing the following.

A bigger radiator with more coolant capacity with more tubes.
Change the coolant ratio or run Evans coolant.
User Water wetter but only if the coolant ratio is 100 percent or 25-75.
Two puller fans that exceed the total cfm capacity of the two stock 12 inch puller fans and their replacement - one ATI 16 inch fan.
A vented hood to allow air into the engine to reduce heat soak and extreme under hood engine temps in addition to the removal of the seal on the cowl to allow heated air to escape.
A tranny cooler that is isolated from the radiator. You do not want to heat the radiator coolant as it cools the tranny temp fluid. Most of the heat in the tranny fluid is generated from the high stall (which most of us have) so it will heat fast enough in cold temps. Therefore there is no need to run it through the radiator to warm it in the winter or to cool it in the summer. A proper sized tranny cooler will keep the temps in line just fine (assuming you don't hot lap ten times in a row).
A front mounted intercooler instead of the stock twin intercoolers. The lower the intake air temps (non-boost) the lower the engine operating temps.
A radiator fan shroud that forces the fan(s) to pull as much air as possible from outside the engine bay.
Vent non-boost to atmosphere from the bypass value instead of recirculating.
Air dam is full size and is installed.
IMO the plastic pieces (aft of the hood latch and in front of the AC condensor) promote more suction if left in place rather than removing them - especially when not moving.

I still overheat and have done all of the above except I have not converted to Evans yet. In Wichita it is over 90 today so running at freeways speeds I can run my AC but if I run in city traffic I have to run the AC off.

I run a BeCool radiator, with a Spal Exreme 16 (3000 cfm) and an 8 inch PermaCool pulling about 1000 cfm with custom alum tubing with Epp's FMIC with an SD tune maxed at 16 degrees timing.

Some pics below of my build - it's still a work in progress:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1835930...7602956888623/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1835930...7602956888623/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1835930...7602956888623/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1835930...7602956888623/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/1835930...7602956888623/