Automatic vs. 6spd in the 1000 rwhp range
FormerVendor
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,444
Likes: 2
From: WWW.SPEEDINC.COM
^^^ i dont agree.
"six speed lags cause of loss of traction" so autos dont spin? a 5000 stall in a auto is alot like a 5000 clutch drop with a stick if you know how to preload everything. at 1000 horse both will have launch problems with out the prefect set up. but we are talking about a 60 roll not a 0 launch. so this has no bearing on the subject. and if it did. i know a pretty good stick driver that can luanch good
"losing boost" ever heard of no lift shift? i can shift my car pretty damn fast. i wouldnt lift i would just stay in it. also the make boost controls that really help with this stuff.
"six speed lags cause of loss of traction" so autos dont spin? a 5000 stall in a auto is alot like a 5000 clutch drop with a stick if you know how to preload everything. at 1000 horse both will have launch problems with out the prefect set up. but we are talking about a 60 roll not a 0 launch. so this has no bearing on the subject. and if it did. i know a pretty good stick driver that can luanch good
"losing boost" ever heard of no lift shift? i can shift my car pretty damn fast. i wouldnt lift i would just stay in it. also the make boost controls that really help with this stuff.
With a 4l60e, doubtful. I would only trust overdrive in a 4l80e at that much hp even then who knows. Blew my 3rd built 4l60e quick doing overdrive runs with only 500rwhp at the time, hence why I went with a 4l80e.
The last trans died after hiting the limiter in OD. Started slipping on the way home and half way there it went all the way.
The last trans died after hiting the limiter in OD. Started slipping on the way home and half way there it went all the way.
The magic of an auto car with the correct stall converter is that you limit the WOT operating range to the portion of the powerband that is most effective. This is the perfect match for a centri blower car that tends to have a more peaky powerband. The problem with the stick is not just the time it takes to shift but also the shift extension itself (how many RPMs you drop going from one gear to another).
With my GTO 6 speed rear gears 3.43. If i shift at 7k I only drop down to 4800 to 5k in each gear still well in my power band. So you have to have a stall bigger then 4800 to see a improvement in RPM drop after 1th gear
Not at 1000RWHP yet had Belt issues and still needs more tuning 3th post has DYNO graph but it all in the set up http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showpos...71&postcount=3
For all out drag races autos will always be better. But for DD i will always like a 6speed better. I still get 21mpg highway.
(Again, both cars Turbo, 1000 rwhp, and hooking.60-160 mph roll)
As stated above trying to hook over 700RWHP on the street is hard at 1000RWHP neither is going to hook on the street
Not at 1000RWHP yet had Belt issues and still needs more tuning 3th post has DYNO graph but it all in the set up http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showpos...71&postcount=3
For all out drag races autos will always be better. But for DD i will always like a 6speed better. I still get 21mpg highway.
(Again, both cars Turbo, 1000 rwhp, and hooking.60-160 mph roll)
As stated above trying to hook over 700RWHP on the street is hard at 1000RWHP neither is going to hook on the street
Last edited by BigRich954RR; Jul 25, 2009 at 07:01 PM.
Stall speed varies with the amount of power you apply to the stall. BTW, I get 20MPG highway as well.
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Verdad Gallardo The magic of an auto car with the correct stall converter is that you limit the WOT operating range to the portion of the powerband that is most effective. This is the perfect match for a centri blower car that tends to have a more peaky powerband. The problem with the stick is not just the time it takes to shift but also the shift extension itself (how many RPMs you drop going from one gear to another).
I think the M6 thing is more of a "fun" thing however.
You wouldn't need a stall higher than 4800. My current stall feels like a 2800 rpm around town and goes to 3600 on the transbrake before making boost. If I shift at 7000 I drop to 5500 rpms (converter is a bit tight). The beauty of a good stall
Stall speed varies with the amount of power you apply to the stall. BTW, I get 20MPG highway as well.
Stall speed varies with the amount of power you apply to the stall. BTW, I get 20MPG highway as well.
On The Tree
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: Folsom, CA
I'm at 2600 rpms going 75mph so probably 2700 going 80mph. 28" tall tires.
I raced a Supra 2 yrs ago that had a 6 speed and I had my PG on the street.
I won the race, but with my PG i was spinning the whole time as well. The Supra was gaining, but couldn'y catch up in time. With the glide and my converter setup, it was instant boost and therefore I was able to jump out ahead a great bit, even while spinning. We both were making comparable power as well.
I won the race, but with my PG i was spinning the whole time as well. The Supra was gaining, but couldn'y catch up in time. With the glide and my converter setup, it was instant boost and therefore I was able to jump out ahead a great bit, even while spinning. We both were making comparable power as well.
LOL What are you confused about. It's just a TH400, you know, those horribly unstreetable transmissions that suck on the highway and cost about $2-3K less than a 4L80. No lockup clutch, too expensive + weaker input shaft.
I'm at 2600 rpms going 75mph so probably 2700 going 80mph. 28" tall tires.
I'm at 2600 rpms going 75mph so probably 2700 going 80mph. 28" tall tires.
Far much cheaper than having to buy a twin disc and better T56, plus the better load on the turbo made the TH400 a no-brainer
Your dyno looks real flat because of how they compressed the HP column on the graph. But if you look at it as picking up almost 250 hp over the course of 1500RPM, it's not a real flat powerband.
Perfect so lets say that we are racing each other and you have a 6 speed and I have the auto w/ a 5K stall. We are roll racing and going from say a 40 mph roll. Lets also assume that we run the same rear gear and have identical setups besides the transmission and make exactly the same power. You will be at about 4500 RPM and I will be just under 4K RPM at the hit. Lets assume that traction isnt a problem for either of us. We go wide open throttle. Instantly I am at 5K RPM making 650 hp and you are at 4500 RPM making 75 hp less. Now you have to shift when I'm at peak power (750+) and you drop 1500 rpm and are back to 575 hp. As you are coming back up in the power band I shift and only drop 1K RPM so I'm still over 650 hp and you shift into 4th dropping back down again into the 575 hp neighborhood.
Your dyno looks real flat because of how they compressed the HP column on the graph. But if you look at it as picking up almost 250 hp over the course of 1500RPM, it's not a real flat powerband.
Your dyno looks real flat because of how they compressed the HP column on the graph. But if you look at it as picking up almost 250 hp over the course of 1500RPM, it's not a real flat powerband.
Auto done right with a tight converter is pretty dominant in a sprint to 160mph. I have an auto and a 6 speed and I have ran 6 speeds in my auto Supra with similar power and I can tell you once I brake boost and get out there is no catching b4 160mph..
I love my 1000+ rwhp car with a stick, although it will never go like it will with an auto. But on the street you still can compete.
Hmm, all good points. Question is, does the logic still work (not questioning it, just switching the scenario) with a 3200 stall? Mine is a 3200 triple disc and according to Vigilante is setup perfectly for the car. I haven't logged the shift extension but it can't be a whole lot. Sorry for the thread hijack.
The cars at my dads, I just got back from vacation and no way was my house being empty for a week and the car in the garage. I'll check it out this week and see, however, on an assumption I think it steadily climbs, but I'll take a look at it. Thanks!