Automatic vs. 6spd in the 1000 rwhp range
08-03-2009, 08:47 AM
#61
or do you know how to race a clutch? it is called slipping the clutch. works the same way.
08-03-2009, 01:24 PM
#63
You said dumping the clutch was the same as a 5K stall launch. Dumping the clutch and slipping the clutch are 2 very different things. That's not to say that there aren't clutches that are designed to slip just like a converter but they are race only clutches. T56 Rebuilds runs one in their race car.
By the time you're done burning up your clutch trying to slip it out at 5K RPM, the stalled auto will be 2+ tenths ahead in the 60', using this guys setup as an example.
Listen, I'm not trying to break your ***** but there are people reading this stuff and applying it to the real world. I have benefited a great deal from this forum so I am just trying to give back alittle and on this particular subject I've got LOTS of experience and have experienced lots of frustration as a result of the M6 with different clutches.
08-03-2009, 02:09 PM
#66
My understanding is that you aren't supposed to lock it up until you are out of the stall area on the final drive gear. To clearify, when you shift into 3rd gear, you don't want to lock it until you are atleast 1/2 way thru the gear.
Cable, are you at the maximum boost/power level that you intend to run on that setup? If so, the converter is pretty close and might benefit from being tightened up just a hair. If not and you intend to put more power to it, you will need to go tighter as it will have less and less shift extension as you turn up the wick and you may end up driving thru it.
Cable, are you at the maximum boost/power level that you intend to run on that setup? If so, the converter is pretty close and might benefit from being tightened up just a hair. If not and you intend to put more power to it, you will need to go tighter as it will have less and less shift extension as you turn up the wick and you may end up driving thru it.
08-03-2009, 04:42 PM
#69
i have no experience with a stall. sorry i have a fast street car. IMO the stick is a lot more fun on the street.
and your right i did say dumping the clutch. but i also said preloading it and all. the slipping the clutch happens so fast that it is just like dumping pre say. but thanks for your info
and your right i did say dumping the clutch. but i also said preloading it and all. the slipping the clutch happens so fast that it is just like dumping pre say. but thanks for your info
Yes, my car was an M6 LS2 402 w/ a 200 shot before I got serious about racing in a straight line. A better question is, have you ever driven a big stalled auto? It appears not as you are making statements that are common misconceptions amongst people that have never experienced a big stalled auto.
You said dumping the clutch was the same as a 5K stall launch. Dumping the clutch and slipping the clutch are 2 very different things. That's not to say that there aren't clutches that are designed to slip just like a converter but they are race only clutches. T56 Rebuilds runs one in their race car.
By the time you're done burning up your clutch trying to slip it out at 5K RPM, the stalled auto will be 2+ tenths ahead in the 60', using this guys setup as an example.
Listen, I'm not trying to break your ***** but there are people reading this stuff and applying it to the real world. I have benefited a great deal from this forum so I am just trying to give back alittle and on this particular subject I've got LOTS of experience and have experienced lots of frustration as a result of the M6 with different clutches.
You said dumping the clutch was the same as a 5K stall launch. Dumping the clutch and slipping the clutch are 2 very different things. That's not to say that there aren't clutches that are designed to slip just like a converter but they are race only clutches. T56 Rebuilds runs one in their race car.
By the time you're done burning up your clutch trying to slip it out at 5K RPM, the stalled auto will be 2+ tenths ahead in the 60', using this guys setup as an example.
Listen, I'm not trying to break your ***** but there are people reading this stuff and applying it to the real world. I have benefited a great deal from this forum so I am just trying to give back alittle and on this particular subject I've got LOTS of experience and have experienced lots of frustration as a result of the M6 with different clutches.
08-03-2009, 05:11 PM
#70
i have no experience with a stall. sorry i have a fast street car. IMO the stick is a lot more fun on the street.
and your right i did say dumping the clutch. but i also said preloading it and all. the slipping the clutch happens so fast that it is just like dumping pre say. but thanks for your info
and your right i did say dumping the clutch. but i also said preloading it and all. the slipping the clutch happens so fast that it is just like dumping pre say. but thanks for your info
08-03-2009, 05:17 PM
#71
Oh yea, back to the original question...
Give me a stalled auto any day of the week at that power level. The power application is so much more manageable and when you are peddling it it's so easy to ride the line so to speak. Sure I love banging gears, hell that's why the GTO will never be converted to an auto, but I like winning races more and that's why I put an auto in the Camaro. I am pretty sure a stalled auto and a turbo car are made for each other.
Give me a stalled auto any day of the week at that power level. The power application is so much more manageable and when you are peddling it it's so easy to ride the line so to speak. Sure I love banging gears, hell that's why the GTO will never be converted to an auto, but I like winning races more and that's why I put an auto in the Camaro. I am pretty sure a stalled auto and a turbo car are made for each other.
08-03-2009, 05:38 PM
#72
no im not at max power. If i turn up the rpms past my current 6000 it will get a little more efficient. This is the same converter Mightymouse is on so no worries about blowing thru.
I did not INTEND to lockup the converter at the track but I had the wrong tune loaded and it did. Not locking up picks me up et and mph which is how it is SUPPOSED to be if the converter is doing its job.
I did not INTEND to lockup the converter at the track but I had the wrong tune loaded and it did. Not locking up picks me up et and mph which is how it is SUPPOSED to be if the converter is doing its job.
08-03-2009, 09:17 PM
#73
what are all these shifts? Its two shifts.....In a 6 speed car, have a two step, go against the 2 step, build boost, leave in 2nd.....shift to third with out lifting(two step) then shift the second time to 4th.....two shifts.
I know when I raced zombiess car (only to 130-135) in a 6 speed vette, I was behind down low, and slowly gaining as we went faster. The entire race was maybe a 4 foot gain on him and I still lost. If we raced to 160 I probably would have been ahead.. He was making more power but also heavier.
This is all fantasy anyways, as the op said assume traction. Thats a dream, 600-700 rwhp spins um good at 90+ mph most of the time. The 6 speed gets stupid on the 2-3 shift at 90 and the auto gets stupid too.....so this is a bad argument and can not be solved.
I know when I raced zombiess car (only to 130-135) in a 6 speed vette, I was behind down low, and slowly gaining as we went faster. The entire race was maybe a 4 foot gain on him and I still lost. If we raced to 160 I probably would have been ahead.. He was making more power but also heavier.
This is all fantasy anyways, as the op said assume traction. Thats a dream, 600-700 rwhp spins um good at 90+ mph most of the time. The 6 speed gets stupid on the 2-3 shift at 90 and the auto gets stupid too.....so this is a bad argument and can not be solved.
Powershifting is KEY to ANY racing,...car or bike. Doesn't matter. Regardless, 2-3 ain't happening with 800+rwhp,..3-4 should be vicious but crucial to hit,..as well as the much appreciated 4th to 5th powershift. Which is VERY high mph at those power levels. Especially depending on your rear gear ratio,.... which I am surprised more higher horsepower 6 speed guys don't look more into. Changing the gear for me from a 3.42 to a 2,73 was the best mod I could have done for how I use my car. It went from being unuseable under 145mph in 1-4th gear,....to being useable in 2nd and up on the street.
ultimately, I don't know how you auto guys do it. **** is just not for me. Much safer in a manual,......i'm more in control of a manual car and I have no problem launching with you on the street. Have yet to run one that has contended on our highways.
08-03-2009, 09:22 PM
#74
Very easy to manage, very easy to slip, easy to drive, no chatter in mine at all but,...it is a mans clutch. IT's not ment to blow you, so, the pedal feel does require presure but, I am soo used to firm clutches, it means nothing to me other then I know it's got good spring pressure and alot of clamping force.
Very nice clutch.
08-04-2009, 12:09 PM
#78
i have no experience with a stall. sorry i have a fast street car. IMO the stick is a lot more fun on the street.
and your right i did say dumping the clutch. but i also said preloading it and all. the slipping the clutch happens so fast that it is just like dumping pre say. but thanks for your info
and your right i did say dumping the clutch. but i also said preloading it and all. the slipping the clutch happens so fast that it is just like dumping pre say. but thanks for your info
Here's me and LS2Formula playing around doing some gay roll racing. This is with my old LS2 408 w/ 380 shot progressive from a 40 roll (try that with a stick with 900 rwhp). The camera car is LS2Formula with a passenger obviously against me by myself. He had the weight handicap as his car was running consistant 8.9x in the 1/4. Both of these cars had the A/C in at the time, full stereo systems with subs and navigation. Power everything. Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InS4D5Cx0wE
Here's a real street race from a dig. Lots of prep was done to this road. I am in the outside lane leaving on a 100 shot and the tbrake and ramping in the rest of the spray over 3 seconds. The near lane is a twin turbo TA that had just run an 8.8 the previous weekend at a track rental in Bradenton FL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj8NIHOPxMg
