Which Head Unit for 700+rwhp?
Which Head Unit for 700+rwhp? I am thinking about doing a supercharger, but making the kit from scratch. My question is which blower would be best for 700+rwhp. Going by flow numbers I have looked at the Paxton Novi 2000 (1700cfm), Vortech YS-trim(1500cfm), and Procharger F1 (1525cfm). Which of these three blowers would be best for a front mount intercooled setup that will see mostly street use? The engine will not be built, but tame, and will be relying mostly on boost. Also, what would be the expected max hp at the wheels to expect with each? Thanks
Originally Posted by Trojan T/A
I am thinking about doing a supercharger, but making the kit from scratch. My question is which blower would be best for 700+rwhp. Going by flow numbers I have looked at the Paxton Novi 2000 (1700cfm), Vortech YS-trim(1500cfm), and Procharger F1 (1525cfm). Which of these three blowers would be best for a front mount intercooled setup that will see mostly street use? The engine will not be built, but tame, and will be relying mostly on boost. Also, what would be the expected max hp at the wheels to expect with each? Thanks
What would your overall setup be, and what transmission do you have?
I would vote:
1) YS Trim, Novi 2000
2) F1
I have a YS Trim for my setup, which has custom blower brackets. I would consider selling my head unit so I could get a YSi if you were interested.
A YSi (in case you were curious) flows another 200 or so cfm over a YS Trim.
If you saw my pictures, you would see that used a straight discharge blower, the Mustang guys typically use a curved discharge head unit.
My Griffin air/air frontmount is rated to support a 1500 cfm supercharger.
And I think a D1 is not up to the task.
I would vote:
1) YS Trim, Novi 2000
2) F1
I have a YS Trim for my setup, which has custom blower brackets. I would consider selling my head unit so I could get a YSi if you were interested.
A YSi (in case you were curious) flows another 200 or so cfm over a YS Trim.
If you saw my pictures, you would see that used a straight discharge blower, the Mustang guys typically use a curved discharge head unit.
My Griffin air/air frontmount is rated to support a 1500 cfm supercharger.
And I think a D1 is not up to the task.
Would such a setup benefit from using a solid roller set-up to raise the rpm's up a bit? Since theoretically, centrifugal superchargers make more power the higher you spin them. Or would it not make that much of an improvement in power?
http://www.procharger.com/models.shtml
the D1-SC supports up to 925hp. Thats not 700rwhp? It also supports 1400cfm. Also up to 32lbs of boost. Why not the D-1R? It supports more power than the F1. Now that I think about it. We have not proved yet that any of those other blowers have outperformed the D1 yet on a LS1. Actually who has really maxed out the D1-SC. Lets talk reality. Not theory.
the D1-SC supports up to 925hp. Thats not 700rwhp? It also supports 1400cfm. Also up to 32lbs of boost. Why not the D-1R? It supports more power than the F1. Now that I think about it. We have not proved yet that any of those other blowers have outperformed the D1 yet on a LS1. Actually who has really maxed out the D1-SC. Lets talk reality. Not theory.
Trending Topics
Run, I hear yes and no. Some combos that are still pulling are basically set up for kill, like some Mustang racing combos. Huge camshafts that might peak at 7500 or more whereas we might not want to buzz that high. All blowers have different rpm limits too.
Vince I know that the Speed Inc. shop car hit 700rwhp with a D1 as an example. If I was buying a new blower I would get the one that can do 700-800 crank hp for sure.
Vince I know that the Speed Inc. shop car hit 700rwhp with a D1 as an example. If I was buying a new blower I would get the one that can do 700-800 crank hp for sure.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
Run, I hear yes and no. Some combos that are still pulling are basically set up for kill, like some Mustang racing combos. Huge camshafts that might peak at 7500 or more whereas we might not want to buzz that high. All blowers have different rpm limits too.
Vince I know that the Speed Inc. shop car hit 700rwhp with a D1 as an example. If I was buying a new blower I would get the one that can do 700-800 crank hp for sure.
Vince I know that the Speed Inc. shop car hit 700rwhp with a D1 as an example. If I was buying a new blower I would get the one that can do 700-800 crank hp for sure.
I dont think the D1-SC would be up to the task either. I think it would max out a little above 700 but not much more. Plus the kit would still have to be custom with a D1-SC as most people here that have tried to go with big power from it found lots of belt slippage. The real goal is to shoot for the moon and be happy with the outcome. Shooting for a max makes it too easy. 
RunNE1 - Spinning the motor higher will show no benefit if the kit is designed right. The goal is to spin the blower higher through the gearing and pulley sizes. Less engine RPM could be beneficial "if" you could run a giant crank pulley and small blower pulley to bring the boost on faster.
The setup I am thinking about would include a 382 stroker or slightly bigger depending on whether or not GM releases a slightly larger aluminum block - with around 9.1 compression. From there good heads, small cam such as a 218/228 115 or 116, and a decent intake. As for computer tuning - whatever is working best for everyone else once this project gets to that point. As for tranny, I havent looked that far into it but definitely want to stay with an auto. (This is mostly theoretical, but planning for a final setup to start saving.)
PSJ thanks for letting me know about the YSi. How does this compare to the X-trim? Have you dynoed your setup yet or still in the tuning stages? I'm curious how much you would want for the YS? PM me if you dont want to post.
RunNE1 - Spinning the motor higher will show no benefit if the kit is designed right. The goal is to spin the blower higher through the gearing and pulley sizes. Less engine RPM could be beneficial "if" you could run a giant crank pulley and small blower pulley to bring the boost on faster.
The setup I am thinking about would include a 382 stroker or slightly bigger depending on whether or not GM releases a slightly larger aluminum block - with around 9.1 compression. From there good heads, small cam such as a 218/228 115 or 116, and a decent intake. As for computer tuning - whatever is working best for everyone else once this project gets to that point. As for tranny, I havent looked that far into it but definitely want to stay with an auto. (This is mostly theoretical, but planning for a final setup to start saving.)
PSJ thanks for letting me know about the YSi. How does this compare to the X-trim? Have you dynoed your setup yet or still in the tuning stages? I'm curious how much you would want for the YS? PM me if you dont want to post.
Vince - I understand traction will be non existant after 500 hp. When I say mostly for the street, I mean that it has to be a car that's as drivable as say a lingenfelter twin turbo vette. Craploads of power that cant be used on the street is fine (bragging rights) but able to back it up at the track is what I am looking for. This would be for a weekend cruiser/track car; not a street racer or daily driver.
Well the YSi just came out of the end of this year and it's doing very well. I think it took the YS which I think is better than the F1, and made it even better.
It's comparable it seems to the X Trim, but the X Trim is a physically bigger unit.
Looking at that cam, the combo won't peak at the point of infinity since it's not a huge cam.
I bet if you took all the cars that made peak hp and were still pulling when folks let off you would find that the cam was pretty big. I have a halfbaked theory that NMRA Renegade Mustangs run cams like 240/250//113 in a 306ci and that they are peaking at high rpms because the cam is massive in a 4.050 bore motor, because boost will take the power peak and move it up another 500 rpms.
Vince I did not look to modify his goals, if he wants 600rwhp he wants that, if he wants 700rwhp he wants that.
Anyway, we've been thinking that my 230/236//115 will peak in the 6500-6700 range but we'll see.
Trojan, to hit 700rwhp on unleaded 100 you would need like an 8:1 motor I think. I'm hoping for the equivalent of 700rwhp thru a T400 on 108-110 leaded gas, and think I could hit 600-650rwhp on 100 octane. To hit 800rwhp I would need C16 (117 motor octane).
It's comparable it seems to the X Trim, but the X Trim is a physically bigger unit.
Looking at that cam, the combo won't peak at the point of infinity since it's not a huge cam.
I bet if you took all the cars that made peak hp and were still pulling when folks let off you would find that the cam was pretty big. I have a halfbaked theory that NMRA Renegade Mustangs run cams like 240/250//113 in a 306ci and that they are peaking at high rpms because the cam is massive in a 4.050 bore motor, because boost will take the power peak and move it up another 500 rpms.
Vince I did not look to modify his goals, if he wants 600rwhp he wants that, if he wants 700rwhp he wants that.
Anyway, we've been thinking that my 230/236//115 will peak in the 6500-6700 range but we'll see.
Trojan, to hit 700rwhp on unleaded 100 you would need like an 8:1 motor I think. I'm hoping for the equivalent of 700rwhp thru a T400 on 108-110 leaded gas, and think I could hit 600-650rwhp on 100 octane. To hit 800rwhp I would need C16 (117 motor octane).
I figured the specs of the cam would have to be bigger, but I was thinking that maybe it would be easier to hit these kind of numbers. I've seen numerous 346 setups hit 600 rwhp with the smaller blowers and I was thinking with more cubes and a bigger blower it should be no problem as a few have done this. I had not planned on running as much octane as you are suggesting, so compression may need to be adjusted as you said. I would like to see your results when you get it going. Then I will know what to expect when my project gets going. Thanks for all of the help and suggestions.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 610
Likes: 0
From: Redondo Beach, CA
Running a stock bottom end on 91 octane and getting 700RWHP is very difficult. I know MMS has set up a few California cars that are hitting close to 700RWHP (on a D1) on 91 Octane but most of them have built motors. We're doing an F1 (maybe an F1-R) on my setup which will have a large FMIC and primarily run on 91 octane. With the 427 we should be able to hit 700-750. On race gas and/or an alchy injection kit we are looking for a lot more. They gotta get that dern motor in my car first, though 
InvisibleSun - I am looking for a setup like yours basically. But I dont want to deal with the sleeves issue so will just go with the stroker. I had wanted to use the 91 octane too and maybe use a water/alky kit as well. How long have they had your car? - I remember seeing it there back in September I think. Did Mike recommend the F1 or what led you to use that blower?
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 610
Likes: 0
From: Redondo Beach, CA
As of next week it'll be 6 months... There really isn't any sleeve issues (check out the Darton thread in the internal engine section). I was ready to go C5R but Mike said the Darton would be stronger and a lot cheaper. We're doing pretty much everything to the car and it's costing me major bank but in the end, it'll be worth it. We were planning on doing the D1 but I wanted a car capable of solid 9's so he recommended the F1. I've been pressing him on the alchy kit and the F1R, so we'll see where that goes. We're planning on doing 2 tunes - one for the street at around 700RWHP and one for the track with more HP. It's been so long that I can't even imagine ever getting it back... I went by last week and the car is all gutted and the engine is assembled and ready to go in with the tranny and 12-bolt. THey said they may have it running (w/out the S/C) next week. Then comes all the custom fabbed plumbing an FMIC. Email me erickzig@yahoo.com if you want any more detailed info or numbers...
P.S. - You go to SC?
P.S. - You go to SC?
The both the F1 and YS-trims have a strong following and good results. I dont think I will need something that flows 2000 as 1700 is already way more than can be handled on the street. I still kinda want to try the Novi since the mustang guys do well with it, and it can be ordered in reverse rotation to mount it
InvisibleSun - Yep, that's where the name comes from.
InvisibleSun - Yep, that's where the name comes from.