STS Concerns
02-06-2010, 10:39 AM
#161
Teching In
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
don't chew my head off now, it's just a suggestion... you should get a ride in a built rear-mount car.... it changed the two minds of my buddies who i let drive mine, one of which who had driven several fm turbo cars and currently building a 1000 horse 1980 something monte-carlo. my car made him a believer
02-06-2010, 11:37 AM
#162
That would be me. Being that i live not very far from STS's headquarters i have had the chance to ride and drive several RM cars and i have to say that at first i thought they were piles of ****. but after seeing what a purpose built RM car was like (hawk584's car) my opinion change very quickly. Yes i have a FM built SBC 83 MonteSS. with an S480. so i do have a bit of insight as to weather or not a car is fast and or efficient. I have also owned my own performance automotive business building oval track cars, N/A and Blown street rods and Drag cars. if someone wants to add 150-200 HP to their ride and don't want to spray it, or cut the **** out of it. Then a RM is the best solution. if a motor is built with the right cam, head and valve train combo purposely built for a RM system then said car will be as fast as the person wants. There really is no reason to continue going back and forth on what is better FM or RM it really is all in your personal opinion and what you want to do with your ride.
02-06-2010, 01:53 PM
#163
Banned
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 2,220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What's so hard about installing STS over anything else? They advertise it can be done with little mechanical experience over a weekend in your garage.
Surely a master mechanic with years and years of building FI and racing experience should be able to handle a simple bolt in kit that the average Joe could install in his garage?
Of course you want to think whatever you have is the king ****. That's why you got it.
Last edited by joblo1978; 02-06-2010 at 02:05 PM.
02-06-2010, 01:56 PM
#164
Banned
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 2,220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
lol. I don't see what's weird about that. it's just placement on the exhaust, and no matter what setup (front or rear) turbos are usually in different places... in place of battery, in front of water pump, in front of drivers manifold, etc.
I think one reason many choose a rear mount setup is that you have much more space to work with and don't have to move accessories like alternators & radiators around, and changing plugs are not a pita x 10. so the major issues everyone always talks about with a RM is oiling for the turbo, ground clearance, and exhaust heat. exhaust heat - no problem, coat & wrap the hell out of it. ground clearance - can't be much worse than a lowered car with long tube headers. so really my only concern with a RM setup would be the oil supply, and if you spend enough time & money with it-it can be done right and work properly. just my 2 cents.
Not saying STS is a terrific setup to go with; I'm just in the middle of making a chosen FI direction... D1SC, custom front mount retaining a/c, or a custom RM
I think one reason many choose a rear mount setup is that you have much more space to work with and don't have to move accessories like alternators & radiators around, and changing plugs are not a pita x 10. so the major issues everyone always talks about with a RM is oiling for the turbo, ground clearance, and exhaust heat. exhaust heat - no problem, coat & wrap the hell out of it. ground clearance - can't be much worse than a lowered car with long tube headers. so really my only concern with a RM setup would be the oil supply, and if you spend enough time & money with it-it can be done right and work properly. just my 2 cents.
Not saying STS is a terrific setup to go with; I'm just in the middle of making a chosen FI direction... D1SC, custom front mount retaining a/c, or a custom RM
I'm not bashing a working rear-mount, just STS. Although I think it's a bit odd and my personal preference is supercharging.
Sometimes spending shitload of money to get a KIT to work right isn't everyone's ideal choice is all I'm saying.
My kit works great....after it was made to work.
Last edited by joblo1978; 02-06-2010 at 02:03 PM.
02-06-2010, 11:34 PM
#165
for elias_799: I hope the kit you saw was not installed by a muffler shop. That might explain why you were not impressed with it. It will take more skills to hook it up then what a muffler shop would have. I don't have much faith in our muffler shops around here anyways. Seriously though, If it was an older version of the kit I would agree that it was certainly less impressive. The current kit has taken care of all the common complaints. They fixed the ground clearance issue, relocated the intake so it is up in the wheel well behind the splash shield where is can get nice cold dry air, intercooler and piping added, new oil pump that always runs at full speed, and the charge pipe is now a sub frame connector as well. They did a pretty good job with the new kit. I would not have gotten one of their older kits. I did look at several others. APS and Turbo Technology were my top picks but after seeing the install manuals I decided to keep my 43k mile car intact without any permanent mods. It is all preference. It is not right to say that STS or any rear mount system is garbage especially with out owning one that was installed correctly. I could have purchased any kit I wanted. I did my research and talked to all the manufactures tech support multiple times before deciding. I did not go with a charger because I did not want to lose the 100hp and 125ft lbs of TQ to run it. Once again personal preference. I am glad that the last guy was happy with his charger and that someone else was happy with their front mount. Every skeptic that I have taken for a ride including 2 front mount owners has made them change their mind. Then they look at my fully functional engine bay and really can't believe it works that well.
For my setup I have blocker coated manifolds, stock cats with all exhaust pipe heat wrapped to the turbo. I used welded flanges and gaskets to connect the exhaust system to the turbo rather than slip joints to avoid leaks. The only mod I made to the STS system was to the crank case ventilation system. The crank case pressure was building up during high boost so I had to go to a vented catch can. The garret turbo that came with the kit failed shortly after being run on the dyno. Journal bearing went out. They swapped it out and upgraded me to a dual ball bearing at no cost for the trouble. I have had the kit on the car for about 3500 miles and it has given me no trouble after the turbo was replaced. I need to get the car retuned now since the new turbo is flowing way more air. I can only run 9.5lbs of boost before it starts going lean. I made just over 500 rwhp on a mustang dyno at 9lbs of boost with the bad turbo. I am building full boost around 3000 RPM in third gear. My stall is so much higher than that I do not have any lag.
So as far as concerns for the STS kit:
1. Constantly having to kill myths and prove to people that a rear mount it a great alternative to a FM or a charger.
2. PCV\Crank case ventilation system not good enough for 15lbs of boost
3. Exhaust leaks can be big performance killers.
4. Keeping exhaust gas as hot as possible.
I hope some of this helps the OP as well as others that want to hear some facts from an actual owner of the kit.
For my setup I have blocker coated manifolds, stock cats with all exhaust pipe heat wrapped to the turbo. I used welded flanges and gaskets to connect the exhaust system to the turbo rather than slip joints to avoid leaks. The only mod I made to the STS system was to the crank case ventilation system. The crank case pressure was building up during high boost so I had to go to a vented catch can. The garret turbo that came with the kit failed shortly after being run on the dyno. Journal bearing went out. They swapped it out and upgraded me to a dual ball bearing at no cost for the trouble. I have had the kit on the car for about 3500 miles and it has given me no trouble after the turbo was replaced. I need to get the car retuned now since the new turbo is flowing way more air. I can only run 9.5lbs of boost before it starts going lean. I made just over 500 rwhp on a mustang dyno at 9lbs of boost with the bad turbo. I am building full boost around 3000 RPM in third gear. My stall is so much higher than that I do not have any lag.
So as far as concerns for the STS kit:
1. Constantly having to kill myths and prove to people that a rear mount it a great alternative to a FM or a charger.
2. PCV\Crank case ventilation system not good enough for 15lbs of boost
3. Exhaust leaks can be big performance killers.
4. Keeping exhaust gas as hot as possible.
I hope some of this helps the OP as well as others that want to hear some facts from an actual owner of the kit.
02-06-2010, 11:53 PM
#166
TECH Addict
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: toronto ontario canada
Posts: 2,047
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
for elias_799: I hope the kit you saw was not installed by a muffler shop. That might explain why you were not impressed with it. It will take more skills to hook it up then what a muffler shop would have. I don't have much faith in our muffler shops around here anyways. Seriously though, If it was an older version of the kit I would agree that it was certainly less impressive. The current kit has taken care of all the common complaints. They fixed the ground clearance issue, relocated the intake so it is up in the wheel well behind the splash shield where is can get nice cold dry air, intercooler and piping added, new oil pump that always runs at full speed, and the charge pipe is now a sub frame connector as well. They did a pretty good job with the new kit. I would not have gotten one of their older kits. I did look at several others. APS and Turbo Technology were my top picks but after seeing the install manuals I decided to keep my 43k mile car intact without any permanent mods. It is all preference. It is not right to say that STS or any rear mount system is garbage especially with out owning one that was installed correctly. I could have purchased any kit I wanted. I did my research and talked to all the manufactures tech support multiple times before deciding. I did not go with a charger because I did not want to lose the 100hp and 125ft lbs of TQ to run it. Once again personal preference. I am glad that the last guy was happy with his charger and that someone else was happy with their front mount. Every skeptic that I have taken for a ride including 2 front mount owners has made them change their mind. Then they look at my fully functional engine bay and really can't believe it works that well.
For my setup I have blocker coated manifolds, stock cats with all exhaust pipe heat wrapped to the turbo. I used welded flanges and gaskets to connect the exhaust system to the turbo rather than slip joints to avoid leaks. The only mod I made to the STS system was to the crank case ventilation system. The crank case pressure was building up during high boost so I had to go to a vented catch can. The garret turbo that came with the kit failed shortly after being run on the dyno. Journal bearing went out. They swapped it out and upgraded me to a dual ball bearing at no cost for the trouble. I have had the kit on the car for about 3500 miles and it has given me no trouble after the turbo was replaced. I need to get the car retuned now since the new turbo is flowing way more air. I can only run 9.5lbs of boost before it starts going lean. I made just over 500 rwhp on a mustang dyno at 9lbs of boost with the bad turbo. I am building full boost around 3000 RPM in third gear. My stall is so much higher than that I do not have any lag.
So as far as concerns for the STS kit:
1. Constantly having to kill myths and prove to people that a rear mount it a great alternative to a FM or a charger.
2. PCV\Crank case ventilation system not good enough for 15lbs of boost
3. Exhaust leaks can be big performance killers.
4. Keeping exhaust gas as hot as possible.
I hope some of this helps the OP as well as others that want to hear some facts from an actual owner of the kit.
For my setup I have blocker coated manifolds, stock cats with all exhaust pipe heat wrapped to the turbo. I used welded flanges and gaskets to connect the exhaust system to the turbo rather than slip joints to avoid leaks. The only mod I made to the STS system was to the crank case ventilation system. The crank case pressure was building up during high boost so I had to go to a vented catch can. The garret turbo that came with the kit failed shortly after being run on the dyno. Journal bearing went out. They swapped it out and upgraded me to a dual ball bearing at no cost for the trouble. I have had the kit on the car for about 3500 miles and it has given me no trouble after the turbo was replaced. I need to get the car retuned now since the new turbo is flowing way more air. I can only run 9.5lbs of boost before it starts going lean. I made just over 500 rwhp on a mustang dyno at 9lbs of boost with the bad turbo. I am building full boost around 3000 RPM in third gear. My stall is so much higher than that I do not have any lag.
So as far as concerns for the STS kit:
1. Constantly having to kill myths and prove to people that a rear mount it a great alternative to a FM or a charger.
2. PCV\Crank case ventilation system not good enough for 15lbs of boost
3. Exhaust leaks can be big performance killers.
4. Keeping exhaust gas as hot as possible.
I hope some of this helps the OP as well as others that want to hear some facts from an actual owner of the kit.
i have never seen an FM guy go to a RM set up, but i certainly seen plenty of RM guys going FM
watch those cats, from time to time they like to spit stuff out and the exhaust wheel on the turbo does not like it much
name me a myth that you killed in this thread, but yea RM is not a bad alternative
02-07-2010, 12:10 AM
#167
Well jenn hows it coming? did you get the kit yet? when are you going to install it? Im excited for you I think if you get the different scavenge pump, It will be exactly what you want from it. Good luck
02-07-2010, 12:18 AM
#168
Sorry, Not all of that post was for you. As far as myths go how about the one that STS's oil pump is junk? The old style was junk. The new one works just fine. Replace it when it fails after 50k miles. I really meant myths in general. Not really directed at this thread. Just trying to help the OP.
I was responding.
02-07-2010, 07:48 AM
#171
TECH Resident
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NC - Charlotte area
Posts: 3,747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
+1 for STS updating the kit, I know a lot has changed since I bought mine (used also) and they have made some improvements from customer feedback.
02-09-2010, 09:43 AM
#172
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Harrison Township, Michigan
Posts: 512
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
04-01-2010, 05:45 PM
#174
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Harrison Township, Michigan
Posts: 512
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Update on the install... I should be getting started next week. Steam cleaned all of the piping. Everything looks pretty good. I purchased a Walbro 255 single, boost/vac gauge. Only thing I need to purchase is some #42 injectors. The kit I bought has a brand-new FMIC, and manual boost control. I will consider buying meth soon. I will post up some pictures as the install goes on!
Oh, and the GTO got the slave and a new Spec clutch and is currently sitting in a field.
Oh, and the GTO got the slave and a new Spec clutch and is currently sitting in a field.
04-13-2010, 06:18 PM
#175
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Update on the install... I should be getting started next week. Steam cleaned all of the piping. Everything looks pretty good. I purchased a Walbro 255 single, boost/vac gauge. Only thing I need to purchase is some #42 injectors. The kit I bought has a brand-new FMIC, and manual boost control. I will consider buying meth soon. I will post up some pictures as the install goes on!
Oh, and the GTO got the slave and a new Spec clutch and is currently sitting in a field.
Oh, and the GTO got the slave and a new Spec clutch and is currently sitting in a field.
04-14-2010, 10:27 AM
#176
9 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 2,034
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hahaha... joining this thread late... but I love the quote above!
Being that I started my FI experience with STS back when STS first came out... I can tell you that the kit is built to make money, not performance.
Before everyone throws the BS flag on me... I spoke to one of the head guys at STS when I was first going down the road of building my car... and that is almost verbatem what he told me. I think it was something more like "our kits are for the budget minded folks that want good performance... not race car performance" and when I pushed them to help me in my build by providing some piping (I was doing the rest) he said "we are not really interested in doing something different, we have a good model and it makes us money".
So... I own the fastest rear-mount F-body in the nation (still think I hold that crown)... and the other F-body's that are close (Zombie and 1320) would echo my feelings that our kits are NOT STS kits... my kit has nothing in common with them other then being rear-mounted... and if that is the same, its kinda like calling a Chevy a Ford... because they are both cars!
Now all that being said....
I dont mind STS and think that they produce a great "budget mild performance" turbo kit. If you want real performance (700+RWHP) I suggest you go another route... or custom.
As for us... we will see 8's this year... oh and the car has an O/D trans back in it... so its completely street mannered and appearing... (Other than that big *** turbo tucked in the back)
So you're saying there's a difference between a completely one off rear mount setup and an STS? That's fair.
I'm not bashing a working rear-mount, just STS. Although I think it's a bit odd and my personal preference is supercharging.
Sometimes spending shitload of money to get a KIT to work right isn't everyone's ideal choice is all I'm saying.
My kit works great....after it was made to work.
I'm not bashing a working rear-mount, just STS. Although I think it's a bit odd and my personal preference is supercharging.
Sometimes spending shitload of money to get a KIT to work right isn't everyone's ideal choice is all I'm saying.
My kit works great....after it was made to work.
Before everyone throws the BS flag on me... I spoke to one of the head guys at STS when I was first going down the road of building my car... and that is almost verbatem what he told me. I think it was something more like "our kits are for the budget minded folks that want good performance... not race car performance" and when I pushed them to help me in my build by providing some piping (I was doing the rest) he said "we are not really interested in doing something different, we have a good model and it makes us money".
So... I own the fastest rear-mount F-body in the nation (still think I hold that crown)... and the other F-body's that are close (Zombie and 1320) would echo my feelings that our kits are NOT STS kits... my kit has nothing in common with them other then being rear-mounted... and if that is the same, its kinda like calling a Chevy a Ford... because they are both cars!
Now all that being said....
I dont mind STS and think that they produce a great "budget mild performance" turbo kit. If you want real performance (700+RWHP) I suggest you go another route... or custom.As for us... we will see 8's this year... oh and the car has an O/D trans back in it... so its completely street mannered and appearing... (Other than that big *** turbo tucked in the back)
04-14-2010, 06:09 PM
#177
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Harrison Township, Michigan
Posts: 512
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Longrange4u, interesting. I liked reading your piece. All I am really looking forward to is running high 11's with my kit. That is my goal.
I got my 42LB injectors in the mail last week, and order heat wrap from Summit today which should be in by tomorrow or Friday. On Friday or early Saturday morning, we will be starting the install. How much heat wrap do I need really... what should I wrap... everything almost? Also have to figure out how I am going to "do" my front end (appearance-wise) with the FMIC.
I have decided to go with Motor City Speed in Commerce Township to do the tuning after the install; Rich Gala over there does some great tuning and tuned someone's LT1 I know in the past and he did a great job with what the guy had done to the car.
I got my 42LB injectors in the mail last week, and order heat wrap from Summit today which should be in by tomorrow or Friday. On Friday or early Saturday morning, we will be starting the install. How much heat wrap do I need really... what should I wrap... everything almost? Also have to figure out how I am going to "do" my front end (appearance-wise) with the FMIC.
I have decided to go with Motor City Speed in Commerce Township to do the tuning after the install; Rich Gala over there does some great tuning and tuned someone's LT1 I know in the past and he did a great job with what the guy had done to the car.
04-15-2010, 01:20 PM
#178
9 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 2,034
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Longrange4u, interesting. I liked reading your piece. All I am really looking forward to is running high 11's with my kit. That is my goal.
I got my 42LB injectors in the mail last week, and order heat wrap from Summit today which should be in by tomorrow or Friday. On Friday or early Saturday morning, we will be starting the install. How much heat wrap do I need really... what should I wrap... everything almost? Also have to figure out how I am going to "do" my front end (appearance-wise) with the FMIC.
I have decided to go with Motor City Speed in Commerce Township to do the tuning after the install; Rich Gala over there does some great tuning and tuned someone's LT1 I know in the past and he did a great job with what the guy had done to the car.
I got my 42LB injectors in the mail last week, and order heat wrap from Summit today which should be in by tomorrow or Friday. On Friday or early Saturday morning, we will be starting the install. How much heat wrap do I need really... what should I wrap... everything almost? Also have to figure out how I am going to "do" my front end (appearance-wise) with the FMIC.
I have decided to go with Motor City Speed in Commerce Township to do the tuning after the install; Rich Gala over there does some great tuning and tuned someone's LT1 I know in the past and he did a great job with what the guy had done to the car.
Have you upgraded to a Walbro 255? If not you need to... another cheap mod for better performance is changing your heads to the LQ9 truck heads (You can buy for $300). They have much larger chambers and it drops your compression on your stock block some... better for knock and engine protection.
04-18-2010, 02:10 PM
#179
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Harrison Township, Michigan
Posts: 512
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Yes, I am running a Walbro 255. Just started the project yesterday. So far we have all intake and exhaust tubing installed, and i have the front end of the car to figure out the setup for the intercooler. I had to cut my driver's side subframe connector off, which totally sucks.
