How did QMP get stock MAF to work with 750-800 rwhp & ls1edit???
02-03-2004, 01:28 AM
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How did QMP get stock MAF to work with 750-800 rwhp & ls1edit??? Im curious on the tuning on the QMP turbo formula , they used stock maf setup and ls1edit and alky do keep the A/F curve nice and perfectly flat.
Lots of guys claim the stock LS1 maf maxs out, and then you can no longer tune it...whats the right way to go about tuning a single turbo BIG horsepower setup???
Id like to use an ALKY setup as well that is pressure switch activated (like +5 psi or whatever) that could add a good amount of fuel.
But would it all be done in the PE vs RPM table. etc.
I hope Rob @ QMP reads this and can give some tips...
Lots of guys claim the stock LS1 maf maxs out, and then you can no longer tune it...whats the right way to go about tuning a single turbo BIG horsepower setup???
Id like to use an ALKY setup as well that is pressure switch activated (like +5 psi or whatever) that could add a good amount of fuel.
But would it all be done in the PE vs RPM table. etc.
I hope Rob @ QMP reads this and can give some tips...
02-03-2004, 02:30 AM
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Lots of time spent on the dyno working in the PE vs RPM and Main VE Table (over 100 dyno pulls to be exact). Though it would not take near that time anymore to get the AF table right (HUGE learning curve). After I did the Formula, I think I did the Twin Turbo C5 in about 5-6 dyno pulls from start to finish.
We are actually using the 85mm MAF on the Formula, but the same can just as easily be done with a stock MAF. As a reference, we used the factory stock MAF on the C5 (screen and all). And the AF curve is super flat on it as well.
Hope that helps.
We are actually using the 85mm MAF on the Formula, but the same can just as easily be done with a stock MAF. As a reference, we used the factory stock MAF on the C5 (screen and all). And the AF curve is super flat on it as well.
Hope that helps.
02-03-2004, 02:56 AM
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So, once the MAF is maxed out you're just using the PE vs RPM table to fix that all up? Like adding 50% or more fuel on up after the MAF reaches it's limit (which is like 11250 on a 98 right)? Or is it just a gues to get WOT fueling right only based on being strapped on a dyno and real workld driving just being a side note? I know that really, you could just scale the PE table low to go to a PE cell really low MAP or RPM based, but that does not do anything for an actual driven car. Hell, I know Pro Street cars that run 40+ degrees advance at 14.4:1 on 17:1 compession, but good luck ever driving them for over 1 mile.
02-03-2004, 07:04 PM
#5
you talking about this 'perfectly flat' a/f 
https://ls1tech.com/forums/attachmen...achmentid=2932
also it seems once the maf freq reported flatlines you have no further adjustment of fueling vs. temperature.. this means if you go to the track or street at temperatures not close to that during which it was tuned.. your target a/f will be off. also if you ever get into P.E. and you are not at the boost (at the specific rpm) that you calculated for.. your a/f will be off.
this was my p.e. tune on the qmp kit as you can see what i did was respond with a slope to compensate with fueling starting that the rpm when the reported freq flatlines.
and the second thing is my resulting 02 voltages
best thing you can do is just plan for a worst case scenario.. tune it when its cold, and hit it as low of rpm as possible.. and run richer and slower the rest of the time.
i would highly reccomend working with pro flow on a maf conversion or drop the buck on dfi/fast.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/attachmen...achmentid=2932
also it seems once the maf freq reported flatlines you have no further adjustment of fueling vs. temperature.. this means if you go to the track or street at temperatures not close to that during which it was tuned.. your target a/f will be off. also if you ever get into P.E. and you are not at the boost (at the specific rpm) that you calculated for.. your a/f will be off.
this was my p.e. tune on the qmp kit as you can see what i did was respond with a slope to compensate with fueling starting that the rpm when the reported freq flatlines.
and the second thing is my resulting 02 voltages
best thing you can do is just plan for a worst case scenario.. tune it when its cold, and hit it as low of rpm as possible.. and run richer and slower the rest of the time.
i would highly reccomend working with pro flow on a maf conversion or drop the buck on dfi/fast.
02-03-2004, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MIGHTYMOUSE
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02-03-2004, 08:13 PM
#12
For being sick, you sure got enough energy to poke at MIGHTY 
Don't mislead people on how much fuel you were adding with PE Rob, I made the comment before on how much fueling you were adding w/ the alcohol.
Not to mention you were running a single pump which can't supply that power on it's own.
So basically, you didn't make that power on the stock MAF and the PE table alone.
You're misinforming people, plain and simple.
Don't mislead people on how much fuel you were adding with PE Rob, I made the comment before on how much fueling you were adding w/ the alcohol.
Not to mention you were running a single pump which can't supply that power on it's own.
So basically, you didn't make that power on the stock MAF and the PE table alone.
You're misinforming people, plain and simple.
02-03-2004, 08:16 PM
#13
hey rob, lets say you tuned when it was 50deg's out, how far off do you think it will be at 90deg? any experience like that? or worse yet lets say i tune on the dyno and it is 70deg's in the shop, how rich should i shoot for figuring it could be as cold as 20deg's when i am out racing(it happens 
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02-03-2004, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by y2khawk
So basically, you didn't make that power on the stock MAF and the PE table alone.
You're misinforming people, plain and simple.
You're misinforming people, plain and simple.
So I guess I don't know where you are coming from with that statement?
02-03-2004, 08:28 PM
#16
how about this, I'll bring my video cam to you. tape you making a pull at the 750 mark, then another pull with the alcohol off, no other changes? You game?? 
PE changes assume the fuel system itself can supply the fuel.
My point is, you needed the alcohol to make it work. And if you pulled it straight off the rolls at that level and layed into it on the street for 2 or 3 gears it would melt down.
You yourself said it was what, 2 or 3 seconds on the dyno?
I'm just forseeing alot of people getting a little jumpy on the happy **** this spring cause "Rob said it was ok"
PE changes assume the fuel system itself can supply the fuel.
My point is, you needed the alcohol to make it work. And if you pulled it straight off the rolls at that level and layed into it on the street for 2 or 3 gears it would melt down.
You yourself said it was what, 2 or 3 seconds on the dyno?
I'm just forseeing alot of people getting a little jumpy on the happy **** this spring cause "Rob said it was ok"
02-03-2004, 08:38 PM
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I have not mis-informed anyone. And every step of the way, I have told people to expect this thing to blow up at anytime. That's been our goal from teh beginning...to find the limits of the completely stock engine.
I wasn't saying anything about the 750rwhp graph, only about the graphs I posted, and Tim's graph that I'm going to post. And I never said it wasn't making more power due to the alcohol. And I definitely never said to anyone, "it's okay to run a single fuel pump with 14lbs of boost on the stock motor...it'll live". Did I?
Tell you what, save your video camera for me and you at the track. That's the only place you'll see me with the boost turned up making 750rwhp (or more).
I wasn't saying anything about the 750rwhp graph, only about the graphs I posted, and Tim's graph that I'm going to post. And I never said it wasn't making more power due to the alcohol. And I definitely never said to anyone, "it's okay to run a single fuel pump with 14lbs of boost on the stock motor...it'll live". Did I?
Tell you what, save your video camera for me and you at the track. That's the only place you'll see me with the boost turned up making 750rwhp (or more).
02-03-2004, 08:44 PM
#18
this is nuts.
harlan or rob, lets say Robs set up had some big injectors and a duel pump set up, 116 gas and lots of boost, there isn't any reason why they couldn't tune with just the PE vs RPM is there. i know you would have to watch the weather but other than that you could do it right?
02-03-2004, 08:45 PM
#19
easy killer, you'll have your chance
I'll just answer the topic title question and leave it alone
First, by adding alot of fuel with alcohol injection.
Second, by running on a dynojet, unsafely lean.
Third, with some tweaks to the PE table until the pump ran out of flow.
Hope you feel better soon
I'll just answer the topic title question and leave it alone
How did QMP get stock MAF to work with 750-800 rwhp & ls1edit???
Second, by running on a dynojet, unsafely lean.
Third, with some tweaks to the PE table until the pump ran out of flow.
Hope you feel better soon
02-03-2004, 08:47 PM
#20
Originally Posted by parish8
this is nuts.
harlan or rob, lets say Robs set up had some big injectors and a duel pump set up, 116 gas and lots of boost, there isn't any reason why they couldn't tune with just the PE vs RPM is there. i know you would have to watch the weather but other than that you could do it right?