Couple more last minute erl 427 questions
01-16-2011, 09:16 AM
#1
Couple more last minute erl 427 questions Ordered my engine couple weeks ago from ERL .Hoping to have it here by end of february and get it in and car running by april 1 or so.
Got m3 package superdeck ,dragonslayer,manley,wisecos.
Didn't get stud girdle they said not needed power goals are 800rwhp tops for 99% of my driving ,1000rwhp maybe once for dyno bragging rights. Fuel system by lonnies not really capable of going past 1000rwhp.Not into huge singles or triple pumps and car won't be tracked after hitting 9.9 goals which shouldn't be that hard.
I love my afr heads and didn't really want to go to 6 bolts if absolutely don't have to.I thought should go to 1/2 inch studs but of course will have to drill the afr. If you drill them can you put inserts or something in them later if decide to sell them?
Should I forget the 1/2 head stud option at my power goals? If forgot the 1/2 inch then could get the 6 bolt option in case want them later or afr makes 6 bolt heads.
Also what head gaskets should I use..cometic,felpro..ls9 won't work with my 427 right? Are ls7 good for this application?
Lastly build is ls3. Do I have to put in main rear seal backward or just normal heard some say they blow out under boost and some guys put them in backward.
Got m3 package superdeck ,dragonslayer,manley,wisecos.
Didn't get stud girdle they said not needed power goals are 800rwhp tops for 99% of my driving ,1000rwhp maybe once for dyno bragging rights. Fuel system by lonnies not really capable of going past 1000rwhp.Not into huge singles or triple pumps and car won't be tracked after hitting 9.9 goals which shouldn't be that hard.
I love my afr heads and didn't really want to go to 6 bolts if absolutely don't have to.I thought should go to 1/2 inch studs but of course will have to drill the afr. If you drill them can you put inserts or something in them later if decide to sell them?
Should I forget the 1/2 head stud option at my power goals? If forgot the 1/2 inch then could get the 6 bolt option in case want them later or afr makes 6 bolt heads.
Also what head gaskets should I use..cometic,felpro..ls9 won't work with my 427 right? Are ls7 good for this application?
Lastly build is ls3. Do I have to put in main rear seal backward or just normal heard some say they blow out under boost and some guys put them in backward.
If ever you DO decide you want to get rid of the AFR's, you know who to call. lol 
01-16-2011, 01:52 PM
#5
Well have been talking to them of course when ordered. They did think 1/2 inch was good idea but was still thinking now that if wanted to sell the afr later can I sleeve them or something to sell them .Course also didn't get it set up for 6 bolt right now just 4.
And they may not have started /finished it yet.
Guys still want to know about main seals in ls2/ls3 and boost. Are they ok normal or do people reverse them. I can't remember where read but did think it was years ago.
And what gaskets are people running with 427 and afr225s. And are ls7 reuseable was running them on my 408 but the steam holes were wrong so mabye they are still wrong on the 427? Or was that because of the iron block?
And they may not have started /finished it yet.
Guys still want to know about main seals in ls2/ls3 and boost. Are they ok normal or do people reverse them. I can't remember where read but did think it was years ago.
And what gaskets are people running with 427 and afr225s. And are ls7 reuseable was running them on my 408 but the steam holes were wrong so mabye they are still wrong on the 427? Or was that because of the iron block?
01-16-2011, 06:09 PM
#8
As for faster well guess depends what a guy wants.I only want a 9.99 out of this car once at track. If it hits that happy camper.Rest of the time its a street toy mostly just car shows and little bit of playing. You don't go driving like an idiot around my city much fines for street racing are very mean these days and speeding fines get expensive fast with lots of bad consequences.
So all really want is fun car.It was fun with the 408 but the 408 went bye bye and of course can likey fix it but wanted 427 anyway. The bigger cube engine will build boost faster then smaller cube one. Although you can possibly argue that smaller engine will rev quicker but that is debateable. Bigger motor broadens the powerband and gives more off boost and on boost power and torque. Yes you can go bigger turbos but already have turbos the LG that can do about 1400 engine hp max and nitrous to get instant spool up if feel the urge. Nitrous is mostly a car show,intimidation thing but small shots do work well. And the power adds together even more than you would expect.
So 100 shot of spray might be more like 150 effect on FI engine.
My twins will already spool up fast. Bet will be all in by 3000 max or maybe even 2500. The standard on the 408 came in around there. Twins to me are better than one big single for street use unless you don't want the boost coming in lower down to widen power band. Of course too much power down low and traction is hard to come by. Thats why doing things like boost by gear, maybe variable traction control, and of course run et street radials or something sticky to have any hope of hooking up.
I guess it comes down just like the sound of the number 427!
Fact might be getting z06 this year as well with one.
No replacement for displacement..except for boost or nitrous...
and nothing is beter than big cubes, boost and nitrous..
Also I had a 408 already and it was much better off boost and on than my stock displacement ls1. I have also gone up cubes in my talons too and really liked the difference got in on and off boost power. Sure you can up boost to get more power with smaller engines and on the bigger ones you simply run less. Turbo is going to max out its airflow anyway just at different boost levels. But off boost the differences are lot more noticable.
But of course could have went budget on the whole car. iron block with stock crank ,forged pistons and rods,317 heads, stock intake,master power turbo,
turbo 400. Lots of ways to cut costs. But thats not how I roll! LOL
01-16-2011, 07:24 PM
#9
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I'm going to ride the fence here so sorry in advance...
first...standard studs, no girdle and 4 bolt heads will reach your goals (voice of experience, lol), you will likely push water over 20 psi depending on timing and original CR.
second....BUT as much as you have in your set-up, I'm not sure why you wouldnt spend the extra $ on the girdle, studs AND maybe 6 bolt heads. Now it's about reliablilty, especially if it's street driven too.
No matter what, you made a great choice with ERL...they and a few others are the best in the business!
Mark
first...standard studs, no girdle and 4 bolt heads will reach your goals (voice of experience, lol), you will likely push water over 20 psi depending on timing and original CR.
second....BUT as much as you have in your set-up, I'm not sure why you wouldnt spend the extra $ on the girdle, studs AND maybe 6 bolt heads. Now it's about reliablilty, especially if it's street driven too.
No matter what, you made a great choice with ERL...they and a few others are the best in the business!
Mark
01-16-2011, 09:48 PM
#12
Not sure why it would be more reliable or faster. If you are going to bring up the old pistons in the bores thing they ERL has that covered with longer sleeves so no problem them compared to say a normal 427 conversion on say an lq9.
As for faster well guess depends what a guy wants.I only want a 9.99 out of this car once at track. If it hits that happy camper.Rest of the time its a street toy mostly just car shows and little bit of playing. You don't go driving like an idiot around my city much fines for street racing are very mean these days and speeding fines get expensive fast with lots of bad consequences.
So all really want is fun car.It was fun with the 408 but the 408 went bye bye and of course can likey fix it but wanted 427 anyway. The bigger cube engine will build boost faster then smaller cube one. Although you can possibly argue that smaller engine will rev quicker but that is debateable. Bigger motor broadens the powerband and gives more off boost and on boost power and torque. Yes you can go bigger turbos but already have turbos the LG that can do about 1400 engine hp max and nitrous to get instant spool up if feel the urge. Nitrous is mostly a car show,intimidation thing but small shots do work well. And the power adds together even more than you would expect.
So 100 shot of spray might be more like 150 effect on FI engine.
My twins will already spool up fast. Bet will be all in by 3000 max or maybe even 2500. The standard on the 408 came in around there. Twins to me are better than one big single for street use unless you don't want the boost coming in lower down to widen power band. Of course too much power down low and traction is hard to come by. Thats why doing things like boost by gear, maybe variable traction control, and of course run et street radials or something sticky to have any hope of hooking up.
I guess it comes down just like the sound of the number 427!
Fact might be getting z06 this year as well with one.
No replacement for displacement..except for boost or nitrous...
and nothing is beter than big cubes, boost and nitrous..
Also I had a 408 already and it was much better off boost and on than my stock displacement ls1. I have also gone up cubes in my talons too and really liked the difference got in on and off boost power. Sure you can up boost to get more power with smaller engines and on the bigger ones you simply run less. Turbo is going to max out its airflow anyway just at different boost levels. But off boost the differences are lot more noticable.
But of course could have went budget on the whole car. iron block with stock crank ,forged pistons and rods,317 heads, stock intake,master power turbo,
turbo 400. Lots of ways to cut costs. But thats not how I roll! LOL
As for faster well guess depends what a guy wants.I only want a 9.99 out of this car once at track. If it hits that happy camper.Rest of the time its a street toy mostly just car shows and little bit of playing. You don't go driving like an idiot around my city much fines for street racing are very mean these days and speeding fines get expensive fast with lots of bad consequences.
So all really want is fun car.It was fun with the 408 but the 408 went bye bye and of course can likey fix it but wanted 427 anyway. The bigger cube engine will build boost faster then smaller cube one. Although you can possibly argue that smaller engine will rev quicker but that is debateable. Bigger motor broadens the powerband and gives more off boost and on boost power and torque. Yes you can go bigger turbos but already have turbos the LG that can do about 1400 engine hp max and nitrous to get instant spool up if feel the urge. Nitrous is mostly a car show,intimidation thing but small shots do work well. And the power adds together even more than you would expect.
So 100 shot of spray might be more like 150 effect on FI engine.
My twins will already spool up fast. Bet will be all in by 3000 max or maybe even 2500. The standard on the 408 came in around there. Twins to me are better than one big single for street use unless you don't want the boost coming in lower down to widen power band. Of course too much power down low and traction is hard to come by. Thats why doing things like boost by gear, maybe variable traction control, and of course run et street radials or something sticky to have any hope of hooking up.
I guess it comes down just like the sound of the number 427!
Fact might be getting z06 this year as well with one.
No replacement for displacement..except for boost or nitrous...
and nothing is beter than big cubes, boost and nitrous..
Also I had a 408 already and it was much better off boost and on than my stock displacement ls1. I have also gone up cubes in my talons too and really liked the difference got in on and off boost power. Sure you can up boost to get more power with smaller engines and on the bigger ones you simply run less. Turbo is going to max out its airflow anyway just at different boost levels. But off boost the differences are lot more noticable.
But of course could have went budget on the whole car. iron block with stock crank ,forged pistons and rods,317 heads, stock intake,master power turbo,
turbo 400. Lots of ways to cut costs. But thats not how I roll! LOL
As for 9.99 being your goal, you really should be pretty close to the power required N/A. For comparison, BonnarLS1's car was running 10.4-10.5 NA with an LS3 416. We dropped the cubes with a stock crank making it about a 380ci and on 4 psi it is running 10.3's. I'm sure that another 2 psi will get him into the 9's. It's no lightwieght (3900#'s). At those power levels, that ERL block is no more reliable than a built LQ9.
What I meant about dropping cubes and upping turbo(s) is that those turbos are not what any "pro" would spec out for you if you told them the motor that you are using. Atleast not unless your building a truck to pull something really heavy with.
I'm not saying you shouldn't buy nice ****. I'm just saying that it's mismatched IMO.
01-16-2011, 11:08 PM
#13
My reasoning is not because of the skirt length as I am aware that the ERL's have the longer sleeves. I'm more referring to the meat on the top of piston unless you are using a shorter rod.
As for 9.99 being your goal, you really should be pretty close to the power required N/A. For comparison, BonnarLS1's car was running 10.4-10.5 NA with an LS3 416. We dropped the cubes with a stock crank making it about a 380ci and on 4 psi it is running 10.3's. I'm sure that another 2 psi will get him into the 9's. It's no lightwieght (3900#'s). At those power levels, that ERL block is no more reliable than a built LQ9.
What I meant about dropping cubes and upping turbo(s) is that those turbos are not what any "pro" would spec out for you if you told them the motor that you are using. Atleast not unless your building a truck to pull something really heavy with.
I'm not saying you shouldn't buy nice ****. I'm just saying that it's mismatched IMO.
As for 9.99 being your goal, you really should be pretty close to the power required N/A. For comparison, BonnarLS1's car was running 10.4-10.5 NA with an LS3 416. We dropped the cubes with a stock crank making it about a 380ci and on 4 psi it is running 10.3's. I'm sure that another 2 psi will get him into the 9's. It's no lightwieght (3900#'s). At those power levels, that ERL block is no more reliable than a built LQ9.
What I meant about dropping cubes and upping turbo(s) is that those turbos are not what any "pro" would spec out for you if you told them the motor that you are using. Atleast not unless your building a truck to pull something really heavy with.
I'm not saying you shouldn't buy nice ****. I'm just saying that it's mismatched IMO.
That 1000rwhp for couple dyno runs doubt will hurt anything.
And yeah this car should easily go 9.99 with not that much boost. Tomz28 is doing same numbers with his at 12psi on LG turbos on 370 ls2.
And thats fast enough for me. I have zero desires to turn this into a track car and 800rwhp is plenty lots for any street car. Have been cruising around at 600rwhp or so on the aps kit on my 408 for few years and it was lots. Traction was very hard to come by on street. Never did make it to track.
Maybe getting old but not into under 10 second regular drag cars at track too much crap.I am finishing up a 91 race talon project and if it breaks into 9s likely will slow it down. Or only run it that fast at outlaw tracks.
So again not sure see why my 427 is not superior in pretty much every way to a stock displacement or 370 engine on boost or off except that it cost pretty good bucks.But not too worried about that.
Also don't think Lg said there was any big problem running the LG on a 427 at lower boost ranges like under 20psi. And they do 70lb minute they are not that small. Not trying to take them to 30psi. Bet 15 should get me 1000engine.And it takes how much to hit 9.99..? car is heavy around 4000 I think.me out.
01-17-2011, 12:15 AM
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I didnt have time to read all this but ask and look into getting the block and heads welded for a 5th head bolt on the Exhaust side its weakest there.
i wouldnt drill for 1/ 2 bolts Call arp and get a set of L19 head studs or if you got the Cash do the 625 ARP these will hold tight
i wouldnt drill for 1/ 2 bolts Call arp and get a set of L19 head studs or if you got the Cash do the 625 ARP these will hold tight
01-17-2011, 02:03 PM
#15
Comparing a ERL 427 to a ERL 383....
The smallest turbos I would go with on a 427 is a pair of 76s which spool instantly as I have worked with guys with that combo. With it setup correctly, boost is almost instant off the line and the wastegate selection is very important in being able to control boost during the early numbers. This combo set on kill with the right setup, would go 7.40s @ 187+ which are way above the goals of the OP. The 427 would make more torque than a 383 which would allow a tighter converter, a lower leave RPM, less boost at the hit, and a shorter time to build boost creating less heat in the engine and tranny.
Sure you can do it with a smaller motor, less compression, heads with minimal modifications but IMO its way easier with a properly setup motor with more cubes.
01-17-2011, 02:07 PM
#16
I didnt have time to read all this but ask and look into getting the block and heads welded for a 5th head bolt on the Exhaust side its weakest there.
i wouldnt drill for 1/ 2 bolts Call arp and get a set of L19 head studs or if you got the Cash do the 625 ARP these will hold tight
i wouldnt drill for 1/ 2 bolts Call arp and get a set of L19 head studs or if you got the Cash do the 625 ARP these will hold tight
01-17-2011, 03:43 PM
#17
I talked more with the ERL boys and changed things slightly.I went with stock diameter studs as decided not going to start drilling up my afrs. I am not going with l19 or 625 studs right now either. I am running normal studs. I will be running likely 10 to maybe 15psi 99% of the time with maybe 20 or bit under but not over for my 1000rwhp dyno run.But did get block setup for 6 bolt just in case want to go to them.
If can't get 1000rwhp from boost alone can use less boost but small shot like 75 to 100 shot of spray.Its just dyno number anyway for street run 10 to 12psi and think will be more than happy. Was running 7.5 on 408 with the baby standard turbos and was happy.I am not that crazy for street and as said bet can hit a 9.99 with not that much boost on a 427.
I didn't go with stud girdle ERL felt again not necessary at my power goals.
I did though go with best crank,dragonslayer and best rods the manly pros. Bit overkill there.
And once more like bigger displacement for the off boost power and of course it has more on boost power at less boost then smaller engines.No real downside and it should spool up these LGs really quick betting as said will have full boost by 3000 for sure maybe 2500. And thats going to be a very wide powerband. Would think this engine can do 7000 but will talk to ERL for safe redline.Think need 7000 to go thru traps with my 3.54 gears and hit my 9.99 and stay in third. Maybe not end of world if it goes to overdrive I am not overly worried about tenth or two from the extra shift.
So excited and hopefully have my car back on road by early april.
If can't get 1000rwhp from boost alone can use less boost but small shot like 75 to 100 shot of spray.Its just dyno number anyway for street run 10 to 12psi and think will be more than happy. Was running 7.5 on 408 with the baby standard turbos and was happy.I am not that crazy for street and as said bet can hit a 9.99 with not that much boost on a 427.
I didn't go with stud girdle ERL felt again not necessary at my power goals.
I did though go with best crank,dragonslayer and best rods the manly pros. Bit overkill there.
And once more like bigger displacement for the off boost power and of course it has more on boost power at less boost then smaller engines.No real downside and it should spool up these LGs really quick betting as said will have full boost by 3000 for sure maybe 2500. And thats going to be a very wide powerband. Would think this engine can do 7000 but will talk to ERL for safe redline.Think need 7000 to go thru traps with my 3.54 gears and hit my 9.99 and stay in third. Maybe not end of world if it goes to overdrive I am not overly worried about tenth or two from the extra shift.
So excited and hopefully have my car back on road by early april.
Last edited by MY99TAWS6; 01-17-2011 at 04:42 PM.
01-18-2011, 10:17 AM
#19
I don't have the stage 2 kit I have the LG turbos which think are bit bigger than than the aps stage 2 which think are 65lb/min. The lg flow 70lb min should be more than enough. Never going to run them past 20 and likely 10 to 15 is where they will be in daily driving. If it works likely use 7.5 psi springs and ramp it by gear.If can't get boost up there with eboost 2 with 7.5psi have some 10psi springs that can run for base.I thought you can only double spring pressure but not sure.
Last edited by MY99TAWS6; 01-18-2011 at 10:23 AM.
