5.3-on-steroids

iTrader: (3)

Hello, I have made a standalone oiling system for the turbo on my 5.3 s10. It works really well but I noticed that it was pushing oil past the seals on the compressor and turbine, but mostly the turbine and spilling it out the back. I have a turbowerx exa to feed the turbo and a a 4 an bypass back to the resivoir to to relieve excess pressure and a pwm to control the pressure on the feed pump and a turbowerx base model (shurflow) to pump it back into the resivoir. I have both pumps mounted in the bed along with the resivoir and the turbo is directly under it all underneath the truck. My initiail thought is that the drain is backing up and not allowing the turbo to relieve its drained oil because the the oil line goes stright up 90* for about 2 feet or so till it gets to the return pump but the description for the pump states it is self priming and can pull a 5 foot vertical draw and pump it 10 ft vertically after that. Any one have any personal experiences to share who has done this? Here are some pics of it...

killernoodle

Unfortunately, your turbo is the lowest point in the system there, so whenever the scavenge pump can't keep up with the feed pump or whenever you turn the system off, you'll have oil pooling down in the turbo and leaking past the seals. The only way to prevent this is to put the sump oil level lower than the turbo seals or using some kind of complicated system of valves to close the feed and drain when the pumps turn off.

5.3-on-steroids

iTrader: (3)

Yea I figured that. But either way I should be able to just put the return pump lower or dead even with the drain on the turbo and it should be able to pump its way back up just fine right?

3800SII

Is there a check valve in the turbo? If not then no matter what you do it will still have oil leaks from the seals. You might consider using a flow control orifice to bring the pump pressure down to about 10 to 15 psi which should be ideal for these setups.
Also run your return pump for 30 seconds after shutdown and see if you still get leaks.

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

even though they prime up hill, it typically reduces the flow. pumping up hill is usually not an issue, but pulling uphill can be. try lowering the return pump.

TracyRR

iTrader: (8)

As mentioned above, you must run one-way check valves on the suction side (close to the turbo's) if the turbo's are the lowest point. On the pressure side, you must run a 2 pound minimum psi pressure valve so your oil tank can't slowly drain into your turbo's when the pumps are off. It will drain through the pump. My self contained oil system has the turbo's at the lowest point and no issues at all although i'm running the same style turbowerx exa pump for pressure and suction side. I'm not sure how strong the turbowerx base pump is on the suction side but something to consider if the check valves don't solve your issues. These oiling systems work great once correct. p.s.. i would recommend for ball bearing turbo's 30 pounds of pressure and 50 pounds for journal bearings. Best of luck, tracy

5.3-on-steroids

iTrader: (3)

Ahhh I get it now. You know what, now that explains why I would come out in the morning after the truck sat all night and see a huge puddle of oil on the floor that had drained through the wheels. Maybe something like this would help? http://cgi.ebay.com/Libriquip-509-35...item3a657b4009

But wouldn't a check valve on the suction side of the return just make it even more difficult to draw the oil? Man I really hate to change my lines now that every thing is mounted but its still cheaper that buying another exa. Or possibly I could switch the pumps around so they do each others job because I know the exa is kinda overkill for that anyway but im not sure I trust the life of my turbo in the hands of a stupid diaphragm pump I mean the return pump does work im just not sure it's enough, when I watch the oil drain back in the resivor it comes in small quick spurts I have no idea what that indicates though

3800SII

The check valve should go on the pressure side.... When the pump turns off you will still have some oil flowing downhill. The check valve will prevent this once pressure has dropped below 2 to 3 psi. I assume that the same concept exists for the standard oil system which is pressurized from the oil pump. I too cannot see how adding a chec valve on the suction side will work.

In my opinion I would ditch the entire standalone system because it is too complicated for something that is quite simple. Engine pressure to feed the turbo, a check valve and oil restrictor to control the maximum flow, and one pump to return scavenged oil.

TracyRR

iTrader: (8)

The check valve on the suction side is added when the tank/lines are above the turbo's. When the pumps are turned off, all of the oil in the lines will flow down hill into the turbo's... so the check valve (locate close to the turbo) flap closes (pumps off), oil will not be able to flow down hill into the turbo's.
A self contained oiling system is certainly more complicated than the alternative....but if i hurt my engine, it won't hurt my turbo's and vice versa. Also, you are able to prime your turbo's before and after running the engine. It is not for everyone but i'm glad i have it.

5.3-on-steroids

iTrader: (3)

Well tonight I went out and relocated the return pump underneath the truck, dead nuts even with the turbos oil drain and it had about a total of only 6 inches to have to draw from horizontally and while it the oil doesnt gush out like it did before it still has a small leak at the turbine wheel that will not go away for ****, I even turned the pwm down on the feed pump as low as 10 psi and still it will not stop. The more I look into this the more I start to conclude that maybe this stupid useless shur-flow diaphragm pump is better suited to blow bubbles in a fish tank and not to be used as an automotive grade oil scavenge pump. I don't know how most guys use these things things to pump oil from one end of the car to the other when mine wont pump it 1.5 feet, and this thing is brand new. Other than replacing it with a proper gear pump any other suggestions on things I could do? lol

3800SII

You say the oil is coming out of the turbine wheel, right? That is usually a sign that there is a bearing leak, and the turbo is bad. I went through 3 turbos with the exact same problem. Cutting down the pressure did not help.
Those pumps are doing the job, but the problem is inside the turbo.

5.3-on-steroids

iTrader: (3)

I really really doubt that. The turbo is a brand new turbonetics TC78 that has literally only been ran for maybe 15 minutes in its whole life all at idle never even boosted. If it were a chinese turbo or an old used unit it I could believe that but turbonetics wouldnt let something like that leave the factory. If it is bad that would be the damdest thing ever.

JAX04

iTrader: (17)

on my rearmount turbo, it wasnt a stand alone oil,but the turbo itself was def. the lowest point, the pump was mount up above the turbo. I used ONE chekcheckvalve, and that was on the feed line, directly above the turbo. I did not have any draining issues, ever.

And for the record, i used a shurflo 8000 243 610 pump myself.

5.3-on-steroids

iTrader: (3)

I know supposedly a lot of people use them without an issue that's why I thought it would be adequate. I think what I need to do at this point is go and get a section of clear hose to fit on the suction side of the return pump and watch to see if it's backing up. If it is I will go ahead and change the pump.

3800SII

I know that this is a DUMB question, but have you actually hooked the exhaust up to the turbine inlet yet? You CANNOT run oil pressure through the turbo if the wheel is not spinning. I believe that the shaft has to float on a film of oil and the bearings are pressurized by the spinning of the wheel. You are correct when you say that the Turbonetics don't go bad like Chinese turbos!

Forgive me for asking, but I don't see this in the pictures, and you have not said whether or not the turbo is smoking! Usually turbos will smoke like a **** if the oil is coming out of the compressor or turbine areas. My car has imitated a crop duster several times due to this

5.3-on-steroids

iTrader: (3)

haha yes it is hooked up the picture shows it, it's that large 3" pipe running across the second pic and I havent really ran it long enough to turn it into smoke yet but it's clearly oozing out.

3800SII

Ok... Your idea to use the clear tubing is a good idea. I would definetly let the turbo/engine run until it reaches operating temps. Then check to see if the leak goes away. If you plan on keeping the standalone then it can't hurt to let it run for a while.

If the leak does not dissipate then simply add the check valve and oil restrictor pre-turbo and see how it does. Here is another idea : I also have a 6 inch drainage drop on mine, but I got creative with some radiator bypass hose that has a 180 degree u-bend. This allows the oil to collect at the lowest point on the return line before the pump picks it back up. I don't think it matters, but I am using a Mocal/Tilton diaphragm style pump. The pump is higher than the turbo but oil simply cannot drain back into the turbo due to the bend. It works great. You can buy 5/8 bypass hose with a bend at any auto parts store.

TracyRR

iTrader: (8)

Actually, i can and have run my system (when testing the system) for 10, 20, 30 minutes at a time when the engine is off. Not a drop of oil in the compressor/turbine. I believe you are correct when you say it does help seal up the turbo while it is running though.

To the OP, i think your problem is the suction side is too weak in volume as compared to your pressure side. ie: the suction pump vs pressure pump. My tank is the highest part of my system and my turbo's are the lowest. I have never had a drip of oil in my compressor/turbine as long as the pumps were running. I did have a 2 pound pressure valve get stuck before so i added redundancy with another 2 pound check valve in the main feed pressure line (before it splits to feed both turbo's). p.s... my pressure and suction pumps are approx six feet away from my turbo's.