Ryans99ls1

iTrader: (16)

Im putting together my fuel system and i want to run E85. I know there are winter, fall/spring, and summer blends, summer being the best. Right now, im planning single pump/hotwire kit, brfpr, and 80lb'rs.

Say i get the car tuned on the weaker E85 (winter/spring blend) and then summer rolls around and the good stuff comes, do i need to retune the car?

This isnt a max power effort. i want to run E85 for its safety factor in the sense that it doesnt detonate. My thought is that if i tune on the weak(est) stuff and run summer the blend, itll only aid in preventing detonation. Whereas if i tune on summer blend, ill have to worry about when the weaker stuff is here. The other question i have is will the different blends affect my AFR?

I havent ever really dealt with fuel systems before so im curious if my thought process is correct?

mpatton

Do you have a wide band? If so you could just watch it as the seasons went by I guess. Im gunna run e85 also but I don't plan on driving my car except for summer time and even then im really not to worried about it.

mpatton

One tune would be good I think as long as you had room for play both ways imo.

Tally TransAm

iTrader: (17)

single pump aint gonna cut it

Ryans99ls1

iTrader: (16)

Yeah i have a wideband. Im definitely gonna keep an eye on it. I just know how crucial the tune is to keeping a stock bottom alive. I just dont want to always be tuning the car because the gas keeps changing.

maybe its easier to see what im asking when i put it this way.. these are hypothetical numbers.

Scenario 1:
Tune on the car gets done with winter/spring E85. Max timing of 14 and an AFR of 11.0:1. Now summer comes around and i know the octane rating goes up, which is a good thing. here ill just have to keep an eye on my AFR to make sure it doesnt go lean.

Scenario 2:
Tune on the car gets done with summer E85. Max timing of 14 and an AFR of 11.0:1. Now fall comes around and the octane rating of E85 DROPS. With a tune like this (on the very conservative side) do i have to worry about a re-tune because the octane change? There is also the fact that the cooler air will increase the power output and ill be running a fuel with a lesser octane rating than what i tuned with(for this scenario). This is what im truly worried about.

Will the change in octane change the fuel demands?

also, whats an all around safe AFR with E85? i was reading high 10's?

I dont get to drive my car much over summer because of work. Fall is when i really get to play with it so im just worried about the drop in octane rating+cooler air effect and how my tune should be setup

Ryans99ls1

iTrader: (16)

even for 8psi/500whp? (which ever comes first) The tune on this thing is gonna be super conservative. Either way, if i have to add a second pump i will, no big deal there.

mpatton

What pump?

scooter k

iTrader: (19)

It will get leaner as the composition goes up to 85%. I've have been testing it and here in Iowa it's between 75%-85%. I'd tune it on 85% so it will get rich as the % goes down.

0269camaro

iTrader: (7)

500whp is about the cutoff for a single 255 Walbro on premium fuel. No way it will keep up with E85 at that power level.

Ryans99ls1

iTrader: (16)

That is exactly the answer im looking for. Just to be sure i get it, tuning on the weak stuff(winter) will cause me to go lean when i run the best(summer) blend?

with boost references regulators ive seen them go well over 500. But adding a second pump isnt a big deal. ill take care of that if it comes to.

0269camaro

iTrader: (7)

I don't doubt that you've seen several go over 500. There are many cases on here of guys that have pushed them beyond 500. I will say I've seen them lean out on 1 pump at less than 500whp (with aftermarket rails and regulator) too, so it goes both ways. Regardless, to answer your original question, 1 Walbro 255 isn't getting you to 500whp on E85.

Tally TransAm

iTrader: (17)

why are you going e85 with a goal of 500 hp? that can easily and safely be attained on pump

Ryans99ls1

iTrader: (16)

Thats fine, 2 pumps it is. But thats not the whole point of the thread.

i dont want to worry about detonation in any way, shape, or form.. since its obviously the biggest problem on a stock shortblock. And you never hear of anyone running E85 having detonation problems.

the goal is 500, and if it hits 500 with less than 8psi then i may still go up to 8psi and see what it makes. Dyno wise i could care less really, my main goal is just shy of 130mph traps

BOBS99SS

iTrader: (2)

you ever get that thing running? take it out for a drive at least ?lol with the winter we have had you should have been driving it all ready , lol

Ryans99ls1

iTrader: (16)

Oh its running. I took it around the block before winter but that was just to test the brakes.. haha. I dont have the fuel system yet, i just got my tax return though so thats gonna change. there is also the fact that i live in columbus for school and the car is cleveland..

Wicked69

I am not sure if this helps or not. I am running E85 and No intercooler. I have a very conservative tune of 14 degrees timing at full boost. Mine is stock bottom end and I started right off at 15lbs of boost. I tuned for WOT so it still needs some tuning on the street. However, I have put over a 1000 miles of street driving this the last two weeks to see how it would do. Several times I raped it in all three gears. I just make sure my AFR is at 10.5 to 11 at WOT and I am now running a little hotter plug. Started with a NGK 9 and now am down to a NGK 7. People forget the E85 will help a ton with IAT's hence No intercooler. Not a sign of detonation yet. This week I plan to ad a 50/50 water/meth injection for when the weather gets hotter. I plan to have both my meth injection and second pump both kick on at 4lbs of boost via a hobbs switch.

Here is a quick video from the other day after driving it 170 miles on a full tank of fuel where I averaged 15mpg's. Enjoy. At a 45 mph roll in 2nd gear it roasted the tires and immediately hit the rev limiter, but was gone in 3rd!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KExIIYdzNk

Ryans99ls1

iTrader: (16)

Yeah ive read through your build, thats an awesome chevelle. It definitely helps hearing your AFR and timing though, thats the stuff im looking for. Im running an intercooler so i dont see IATs being a problem with E85. With meth youll be hard pressed to get any detonation haha.

But like i said im really interested in how the car will react when fall hits with the different blend and those cool nights(aka really low IATs) are here. I mean the car will definitely be making power on those nights and i dont wanna crack a ringland cus the tune was setup for summer blend. scooter k basically answered that though.

thanks for all the help guys. and for the record, the car is getting a lonnies dual setup.

RexDiablo

I "always" tune on winter E85 since its winter/spring when the car has to be tuned. It is no problem tuning on, lets say 70-75% as long as you know what it is. 14 degrees of timing at WOT is so conservative that it shouldnt detonate anyway. i tuned my car at 10.8 with winter e85 (70%) and had no problems with the car in summer (19degree of timing). I dont run with wb all the time so i do not remember how lean it got.
Going to tune my car with 22psi boost on winter e85 soon.
Good luck! Measure the blend before you tune
EDIT: If you can tune on summer it is probably the best. Not possible to get here in Norway without making it myself. Thats why i run what ever i can get. I dont know how it is in usa but here, one station can have summer, one will have winter and the third one might have a mix. It is important to have the engine running on all variants without trouble or new tune.

If someone could make the stock ECU work with input from a alcohol meter i would buy one!

Ryans99ls1

iTrader: (16)

Great info. Now, what do we consider too lean/rich for E85?

Ive read a few E85 threads and seen what people shoot for, but i havent seen much of what people are actually running

RexDiablo

i run from 10.8 to 11.5 but my home made dyno has no indication what works best for the engine! I can only "feel" and look at the different values, temp etc.
I like to use e85 to keep things colder so i might run richer than most?
Timing is around 19degrees but ive seen people running 24 etc at wot. My car is track only and has to handle alot of abuse.

The point is that your engine (if used winter-summer) has to handle the different qualities of e85. Ive talked alot about this in norway but no one seems to agree that the changes in e85 (e70-e85) has something to say! It would be cool if someone did a real test. It can be calculated but i like real tests.
EDIT:
e70 stoich afr is 8.5% higher than e85. So it should be a problem if you map on winter e85 or either way if you arent pushing limits?