S_J_H

Just finished building and initial testing of a DIY water to air intercooler.
I was running a non intercooled modified G-trim setup with alcohol spray at 14psi.
But IAT's were getting out of control IMO.
In 45' weather, cruise IAT was 130'. At peak boost, IAT was 170' WITH 15GPH of alcohol spraying.
To hot for my liking.
I have removed my entire HVAC system from the car and and the AC evaporator core looked like it could make a nice water to air unit for CHEAP $ and a little fabrication work.
The core is 2.875" deep by 8"x9" for 207" of fin area. Very non restrictive.
I built the enclosure out of sheet metal and fiberglass. Pressure tested fine at 20psi. Finished unit weighs in at 11.75 lbs.
Located it in the cool under hood area where stock battery was located.
2.75" inlet and 3.5" outlet. Maf relocated to pressure side and Mondo bypassed to atomsphere.
Initial tests WITHOUT water in the core showed huge promise. May have lost 1lb of boost vs the straight shot non intercooled setup. Still see 13psi at 6300rpm.
Cruise IAT on 65' day is dead steady at 90-95'
Peak boost temp hits 150' at 13psi.
Again this was WITHOUT water OR alcohol spray.
The box works as a temporary heat sink exchanger even without water in the core.
Also the blower remains very cool even after extended use where before it would get to hot to even touch. That's from bypassing to atomsphere.
However the bypassed air is VERY loud.

Results -Cruise IAT with old non intercooled setup= 85' temp rise.
Peak boost temps with old non intercooled+alky spraying = 125' temp rise.

New combo with bypass to atomsphere and intercooler WITHOUT water in the core-
Cruise IAT=30' temp rise
Peak boost without water in core and NO alcohol spray=85 temp rise.
Next step is to create a pump and radiator system for it.
I expect dramatic results and will update when system is fully working.
A few new pics in SIG.
Steve

69firebird

iTrader: (14)

post some pics. did you weld the sheet metal to it? I guess that you have tig in order to do all this?

man I would like to see some pictures
thanks
ed

Guido

Keep us posted. I always wondered if you could use that core for an intercooler. It almost appears as if the tubes are too close together, and the fins are packed too close together to acheive an efficient flow over the core.

69firebird, click the link in his sig and there are pics of it.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Sounds interesting, but I think that most air/water setups run tanks that are too small and won't really help in a full track run, what are your temps in 3rd gear at the end of a pass?

Guido

What are you talking about?? You can get by with a 5 gallon tank of ice on one full run.

slow

iTrader: (7)

very nice, keep us posted when you get it all setup.

I have considered doing something similar, for my custom vortech install but never thought that that core would be good enough.

Im now going to do a custom air/air intercooler and see how the little G trim likes 10 feet of piping If it does not like it, im stepping up to a D1SC

Ryan

Ryan

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

The car I saw that ran air/water and like 5 gallons had the ice turned into boiling water at the end of a pass.

MECHAM

iTrader: (4)

yeah..but i bet a little GTrim wasnt the FI unit either

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Yah the car I am referring to was running high 14_mph.

S_J_H

the core is not restrictive. At least not at my level. Keep in mind it has to flow free enough that a little fan can pass enough air through it to cool off the car.
I MIG welded the sheet metal. I used a few different gauge's of .025-.045" material in it's construction. I just used cardboard to make templates and then hand cut the sheet metal and welded it up.
Then added a few strength fins and coated it with fiberglass Mat and cloth to give it more strength and totally seal up any pinholes in the welds. The fiberglass also insulates it.

I only ran it up to 100mph . Like I said right now no water system is hooked up to it.
Even so up to 100mph it only showed a 85' temp rise compared to a 125' temp rise for the non intercooled /alky spray combo.
I'm not the first to do this. Even large heater cores have been used under 6-71 blowers in the past with good results.

Check out this guys DIY unit with a homemade carbon fiber top. Very cool work!
http://www.iit.edu/~mcdalor/int_construction/int.html


With cold water it should be very close to ambient. We'll see.
I'll also put the stock condenser back in action as the radiator for the system.
May as well recycle as much as I can.

There are a few early pics of the intercooler if you click on the bottom of my SIG.
I'll take more pics of the completed system sans water soon.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Do a dyno pull and tell us how much of a increase in temps you get. My FMIC has had a 15F degree in temps.

S_J_H

ha ha, no dynos for me. I'll see you at the track John.
Here is a graph comparing the new not yet functional intercooler with my old non intercooled + alky setup.
When I did these tests they were only to look for boost or performance loss through the core.
I was surprised to see it actually lower temps when not yet hooked up to a water source.
It was 20 degrees hotter outside for the intercooler runs yet temps were still much lower.
Also it looks like the car ran stronger with the box in place. It got pretty hairy on the 1-2 shift.

S_J_H

Project is just about complete and turned out well IMO.
I posted completed underhood pics of the entire system inculding new 9th mechanical fuel injector. Will install the pump and tank this weekend if I have the time.
Using a 6 Gal water tank and 4GPM pump for now. Factory AC condensor was also utilized in this project and converted for radiator duty for the water system.
Total cost only around 200$ and a LOT of work!
click my sig link below for pics of the completed DIY water /air intercooler.
Steve

JIMMYZZ28

We did one for Chris Ciolock mustang and actually got the car outlet temps to drop below ambient around 96 degrees. This was with water moving through the core at about 30gph and water temperature close to 40 degrees. This unit for this car was rather large but was built for a 352 ford running 2000 horse power. This guy is runing very low 8 second quarter mile times. Let me kow if you need anything.

S_J_H

I see most pumps that are rated at a much higher flow are rated at 0 Head or restriction and 100% open flow. Most drop in flow big time with any restriction. This pump suffers practically no flow loss up to 35psi. So we'll see if it's enough or not. My Charge temps even without water in the core was only rising 80' over ambient on a 100mph run with 12-13psi peak boost. So hopefully this will be enough water flow to keep it down on my mild combo. I figure it's only around 600 RWHP or so. A fully maxed out G-trim can only make so much power.
We'll see. If it's not enough flow I'll upgrade the pump.
Any suggestions on a better pump if I need one?

I should be able to get it all working this weekend and get some real temp results.

99Fbody99

Johnson pump CM30P7-1
6.9gpm and draws on 2.2amp max.
I uses this one my Air to water in my C5.
Air to water is untouchable in a lot of applications.
The system Installed in the C5 yield temps no greater than 92 degrees with 55 degree ambient temps doing hot laps at the track. Original air to air was 150+ on a 40 degree day.
YES ITs more complex, more expensive..but very effective when designed and installed properly. This holds especially true on vehicles with minimal Frontal airflow. A few points to help you in your quest.

Use radiator technology, preferably aluminum single core. Not oil cooler.

Cheap rear mounted fans on the radiator using a hobbs switchs to acivate under boost (2 psi) work wonders. I actually built a control box activated by the switch and can control it to extened runtime. Especially effective on the street.

75/25 water/coolant with Redline "Waterweter". All water is functionally better but sucks for corrosion resistance.

Run pump with key on full duty. IT actually uses the inlet air temp to cool the fluid at cruise.

There is a long list of lessons learned and do's and dont's..but those will help you on your quest.

As for the Naysayers, Let them be as I have plenty of test data on the street and track to prove the effectiveness of a properly deisgned systems.
I prefer them to "loose there cool". Look at history..Fuel injection doesnt work as well as Carb, Turbos are a waste, there laggy blah blah blah.

99Fbody99

Oh..and for your application your looking for approximately 170 sq inch of cooling area in the radiators. Best design for the future I would suggest 240sq in if you have the packaging room.

S_J_H

Thanks for the tips.
I am using the factory AC evaporater core for the intercooler core. That's 207" of fin area.
I am also using the factory AC condenser core for the radiator. It's a big aluminum single core of typical radiator design. It has a whopping 387 inches of fin area and also gets air moved through it with the very powerful factory fans. So keeping the water cool should be no problem.
I just had to cut off the AC connections and drill and tap for pipe thread to accept larger fittings to flow water through it.

Hopefully will test it later today.

S_J_H

A few pics. More pics can be found by clicking my sig link.

S_J_H

Initial tests with project DIY intercooler actually functioning look decent.
Here is the pump and tank. I am still waiting on a fill kit for it as it's backordered . But I made do and filled it through the vent for now.
It's a 6 gal RV fresh water tank. Sells for about 40$ and fits very nice in the rear "well".

And here is a graph showing charge temps taken a few inches from the throttlebody in 3 different scenarios. All 3 runs are with a 10 minute cruise to get operating temps up and then from 20 to 100 mph at about 12-13psi peak boost.
The high inlet temps were with my old combo which was a direct to TB outlet with a 15GPH alcohol nozzle at the blower outlet. As you can see cruise temps were pretty darn high even after 10 minutes and the alky does NOT lower charge temps all the much contrary to popular belief.
The middle range temp was with the new bypass to atomsphere and maf on pressure side with the intercooler project not yet filled with water.
The lowest temp is with the water flowing through the core at only about 3GPM( just tap water from the sink).
The alky test had the lowest ambient air temp of about 45 outside.
The other 2 tests were about the same with 70 degree air temps.
At this point I think I can call the project a success.
It looks like I will need a higher flowing water pump for better performance and ICE at the track should help even further.
The project was all about using old discarded parts that originally were installed on the car and putting them to good use and building a water to air intercooler for not much cash.
Here's the graph, Temp in F' on the left.-

Steve