Comp turbo 100 turbine wheel vs BW turbine graphs inside
06-16-2013, 09:18 AM
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Comp turbo 100 turbine wheel vs BW turbine graphs inside Car - 94 Supra (pump and meth)
Turbo Comp billet CT5X race 74 with 84 100trim race turbine 1.00a/r midframe
Turbo Comp billet CT5X race 74 (same one) with BW 84 turbine 1.00a/r midframe
Story goes
After making decent power on my Comp unit I felt that the spool was a tad slow and possibly due to the 100trim turbine. Conversations back and forth with the owner of Comp about why they dont use other turbine wheels proven such as Garrett and BW and the 100 trim is making good power but spooling slow and how I felt a "trimmed" wheel would decrease backpressure and "suck" the gas out faster and increase spoolup. I believe its the venturi effect. After using examples and examples I told him I wanted something else.
The owner said that their turbine wheels flow more than other units and were designed to do just that for race applications.
I explained that I was unhappy with the spool and I wanted something else I would sacrifice a bit of power to gain the spool I wanted. I was looking for 200rpm faster. Not much, but on a 3.0L its a noticeable difference. After discussions we agreed to have my turbo sent back. I swapped my 100 trim 84mm turbine for a BW 84 turbine.
When I received the turbo back I inspected the wheels carefully and compared it to a friends S372. The wheels were identical and I noticed that the BW wheel had thinner blades and seemed lighter to spin than the old wheel which was the Comp race turbine. The old Comp wheel had thicker blades which I remember completely since I was telling Comp to thin their blades and save weight etc etc like pte units. I was happy to get what I wanted and felt that I would get the extra spool I wanted and the power would sacrifice 20-30hp which was not a big deal.
I dynoed the Comp last year at 32psi (not tuned for spool) vs the BW one recently (tuned for spool and power). Here are the results. I am using not tuned for spool just because it was the same 32psi. Comp BLUE Bw RED
The Comp unit with the 100 trim tuned fully for spool vs the BW tuned fully. DO NOT LOOK AT THE HP, this is for spool purposes only. This was 34psi 100trim vs 32psi BW. Comp BLUE Bw RED
After wondering and wondering about this on my car and speculating that the Comp turbine wheels cannot keep up to their compressor wheels lets just say im sending mine back in to go with the same race turbine I had before. Called Comp and spoke with the owner and apologized for doubting the product. I was also informed that a similar test was done using a GT55 turbine wheel vs theirs with similar results. My curiousity has been settled. They are also going to put the other wheel back in for me for free which I am pleased about. However to gain my spool im going to go with a smaller unit and sell this with the Comp turbine back in there. This is more turbo than I need right now. I did make over 1000rwhp with it on the Comp race turbine and a small 1.00a/r housing.
Use the info how you want, I was just testing this to satisfy myself and to gain the spool I wanted.
End results - lost hp, lost trq, no spool gain.
Turbo Comp billet CT5X race 74 with 84 100trim race turbine 1.00a/r midframe
Turbo Comp billet CT5X race 74 (same one) with BW 84 turbine 1.00a/r midframe
Story goes
After making decent power on my Comp unit I felt that the spool was a tad slow and possibly due to the 100trim turbine. Conversations back and forth with the owner of Comp about why they dont use other turbine wheels proven such as Garrett and BW and the 100 trim is making good power but spooling slow and how I felt a "trimmed" wheel would decrease backpressure and "suck" the gas out faster and increase spoolup. I believe its the venturi effect. After using examples and examples I told him I wanted something else.
The owner said that their turbine wheels flow more than other units and were designed to do just that for race applications.
I explained that I was unhappy with the spool and I wanted something else I would sacrifice a bit of power to gain the spool I wanted. I was looking for 200rpm faster. Not much, but on a 3.0L its a noticeable difference. After discussions we agreed to have my turbo sent back. I swapped my 100 trim 84mm turbine for a BW 84 turbine.
When I received the turbo back I inspected the wheels carefully and compared it to a friends S372. The wheels were identical and I noticed that the BW wheel had thinner blades and seemed lighter to spin than the old wheel which was the Comp race turbine. The old Comp wheel had thicker blades which I remember completely since I was telling Comp to thin their blades and save weight etc etc like pte units. I was happy to get what I wanted and felt that I would get the extra spool I wanted and the power would sacrifice 20-30hp which was not a big deal.
I dynoed the Comp last year at 32psi (not tuned for spool) vs the BW one recently (tuned for spool and power). Here are the results. I am using not tuned for spool just because it was the same 32psi. Comp BLUE Bw RED
The Comp unit with the 100 trim tuned fully for spool vs the BW tuned fully. DO NOT LOOK AT THE HP, this is for spool purposes only. This was 34psi 100trim vs 32psi BW. Comp BLUE Bw RED
After wondering and wondering about this on my car and speculating that the Comp turbine wheels cannot keep up to their compressor wheels lets just say im sending mine back in to go with the same race turbine I had before. Called Comp and spoke with the owner and apologized for doubting the product. I was also informed that a similar test was done using a GT55 turbine wheel vs theirs with similar results. My curiousity has been settled. They are also going to put the other wheel back in for me for free which I am pleased about. However to gain my spool im going to go with a smaller unit and sell this with the Comp turbine back in there. This is more turbo than I need right now. I did make over 1000rwhp with it on the Comp race turbine and a small 1.00a/r housing.
Use the info how you want, I was just testing this to satisfy myself and to gain the spool I wanted.
End results - lost hp, lost trq, no spool gain.
Last edited by spoolin turbo; 06-16-2013 at 09:46 AM.
06-16-2013, 02:47 PM
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Timing was adjusted to optimize spool and fuel accordingly.
I honestly thought the BW wheel would have delivered faster spool and more torque. I was shocked and disappointed because i wanted my extra spool.
I honestly thought the BW wheel would have delivered faster spool and more torque. I was shocked and disappointed because i wanted my extra spool.
06-27-2013, 06:03 AM
#5
What do the numbers look like Sae corrected? Your numbers are uncorrected which could not be accounting for weather since the tests were not run on the same day. What are the exact dimensions of the comp wheel?
The gt55 turbine wheel is one bad ****. It would takea lot for me to come to terms that a non trimmed wheel could out perform it.
Remember for those reading this, this is a inline 6 with a totally different firing order than a ohv ls1 v8 and the exhaust pulses and how they interact with the turbine wheel are polar opposites from a v8.
It is a possibility that the smaller inline 6 prefers the straight trimmed wheel. It's also possible that your smaller inline 6 thrives off higher drive pressure which I would be led to believe the comp wheel produces versus the borg wheel.
Did you take drive pressure measurements?
The gt55 turbine wheel is one bad ****. It would takea lot for me to come to terms that a non trimmed wheel could out perform it.
Remember for those reading this, this is a inline 6 with a totally different firing order than a ohv ls1 v8 and the exhaust pulses and how they interact with the turbine wheel are polar opposites from a v8.
It is a possibility that the smaller inline 6 prefers the straight trimmed wheel. It's also possible that your smaller inline 6 thrives off higher drive pressure which I would be led to believe the comp wheel produces versus the borg wheel.
Did you take drive pressure measurements?
Last edited by Sales@Tick; 06-27-2013 at 06:10 AM.
06-27-2013, 11:20 AM
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First graph SAE corrected since its the same 32psi.
Comp 919 goes up
BW 837 goes down
As far as the GT55....i dont know if the Comp version is trimmed or straight. I did not ask.
I know the I6 is different. It was more a post to say I was damn certain the BW would outperform giving the differences.
Comp 919 goes up
BW 837 goes down
As far as the GT55....i dont know if the Comp version is trimmed or straight. I did not ask.
I know the I6 is different. It was more a post to say I was damn certain the BW would outperform giving the differences.
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08-01-2013, 07:50 PM
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Intersting results. From what I gather the smaller engines usually do well w 100trim for some reason.
BW usually notes their turbine size by inducer size. Was the 84mm on the exducer or inducer? Wondering if it was 84inducer w an even smaller exducer. That would make sense.
Customer replaced his 76/75 PTE on a .96 w a comp 74/79 on a 1.15 ctx4.
This engine was notorious for back pressure issues. PTE was 3-1 on the back pressure. Comp made the same power, but extended the flatlined power output of both turbos an extra 500 rpm. But the back pressure was now 4-1. We figure the gain in rpm could have been the inlet temps as the comp 74mm was doing better by 50 degrees.
Will be trying back to back soon against another BW unit on a different car, same engine type but different kit.
Right now it's a 74mm w a 84/82 turbine on a .90 w a 5in down pipe.
Not changing just the turbine unfortunetly. But we're comparing to a race covered billet 75mm w an 87/80 on a .90
BW usually notes their turbine size by inducer size. Was the 84mm on the exducer or inducer? Wondering if it was 84inducer w an even smaller exducer. That would make sense.
Customer replaced his 76/75 PTE on a .96 w a comp 74/79 on a 1.15 ctx4.
This engine was notorious for back pressure issues. PTE was 3-1 on the back pressure. Comp made the same power, but extended the flatlined power output of both turbos an extra 500 rpm. But the back pressure was now 4-1. We figure the gain in rpm could have been the inlet temps as the comp 74mm was doing better by 50 degrees.
Will be trying back to back soon against another BW unit on a different car, same engine type but different kit.
Right now it's a 74mm w a 84/82 turbine on a .90 w a 5in down pipe.
Not changing just the turbine unfortunetly. But we're comparing to a race covered billet 75mm w an 87/80 on a .90
08-03-2013, 11:35 AM
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Intersting results. From what I gather the smaller engines usually do well w 100trim for some reason.
BW usually notes their turbine size by inducer size. Was the 84mm on the exducer or inducer? Wondering if it was 84inducer w an even smaller exducer. That would make sense.
Customer replaced his 76/75 PTE on a .96 w a comp 74/79 on a 1.15 ctx4.
This engine was notorious for back pressure issues. PTE was 3-1 on the back pressure. Comp made the same power, but extended the flatlined power output of both turbos an extra 500 rpm. But the back pressure was now 4-1. We figure the gain in rpm could have been the inlet temps as the comp 74mm was doing better by 50 degrees.
Will be trying back to back soon against another BW unit on a different car, same engine type but different kit.
Right now it's a 74mm w a 84/82 turbine on a .90 w a 5in down pipe.
Not changing just the turbine unfortunetly. But we're comparing to a race covered billet 75mm w an 87/80 on a .90
BW usually notes their turbine size by inducer size. Was the 84mm on the exducer or inducer? Wondering if it was 84inducer w an even smaller exducer. That would make sense.
Customer replaced his 76/75 PTE on a .96 w a comp 74/79 on a 1.15 ctx4.
This engine was notorious for back pressure issues. PTE was 3-1 on the back pressure. Comp made the same power, but extended the flatlined power output of both turbos an extra 500 rpm. But the back pressure was now 4-1. We figure the gain in rpm could have been the inlet temps as the comp 74mm was doing better by 50 degrees.
Will be trying back to back soon against another BW unit on a different car, same engine type but different kit.
Right now it's a 74mm w a 84/82 turbine on a .90 w a 5in down pipe.
Not changing just the turbine unfortunetly. But we're comparing to a race covered billet 75mm w an 87/80 on a .90
Mine was a 84iind/84exd from Comp and the BW was the 84ind/75ex (iirc)the normal one from the S475.
08-03-2013, 02:27 PM
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Sorry! Sorry, talked to the customer again. It was the 67/75 PTE. I was suprised it did the same as well. We just figured it was due to the inlets. They were atarting to get pretty out of controll on the 67 at about 11 psi. Mind you on these engine power N/A and w blowers can carry to 7500 w stock cams. The 67 was done by 5500, and comp by 6k.
We found the limit of the comp 84/82 turbine quickly on this AR. On low boost it made good power, but the BP was climbing like a centri blower boost curve. It never leveled out. BP ratio wasn't bad yet, so it made power, just coming in too soon. Added 4psi and the power to boost dropped significantly. Not upset by it. Went small turbine and housing for a quick spool so knew it was coming. 500ft/lbs to 700ft/lbs in about 650 rpm lol.
I've got more kits going out but but they're all 96/88 BW on T6's. so no problems there lol. The power band was too much too fast on race gas. Annihilates 275/50 mickeys from a roll even w a manual.
Now knowing your ind/exd size on the BW that makes a litte more sense. Same leverage but not the same exducer explains the top end difference. But hard to pick the exact turbine from dif brands. Though would be curious if the exducers were closer and let the inducers lay where they may, what it would do.
More testing to do. This one will be 84/82 comp vs 87/80 Bw
We found the limit of the comp 84/82 turbine quickly on this AR. On low boost it made good power, but the BP was climbing like a centri blower boost curve. It never leveled out. BP ratio wasn't bad yet, so it made power, just coming in too soon. Added 4psi and the power to boost dropped significantly. Not upset by it. Went small turbine and housing for a quick spool so knew it was coming. 500ft/lbs to 700ft/lbs in about 650 rpm lol.
I've got more kits going out but but they're all 96/88 BW on T6's. so no problems there lol. The power band was too much too fast on race gas. Annihilates 275/50 mickeys from a roll even w a manual.
Now knowing your ind/exd size on the BW that makes a litte more sense. Same leverage but not the same exducer explains the top end difference. But hard to pick the exact turbine from dif brands. Though would be curious if the exducers were closer and let the inducers lay where they may, what it would do.
More testing to do. This one will be 84/82 comp vs 87/80 Bw
08-04-2013, 08:04 AM
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Every turbo manufacturer will have their "optimal combos" for their turbos. Ive seen overlays with the pte7675 and the Comp 7684 (84/84 turbine) and the spool is the same and the Comp holds longer and makes a tad more power. Boost also stays flatter longer and less duty needed to sustain the boost pressure.
Using your 84/82 I think you need a larger housing like 1.00a/r or 1.10a/r. I was in the same boat debating whether to go down in housing or to try another turbine to gain my spool. I did not want to go down and choke out the turbine wheel.
Who picked the 84/82 dimensions? I never knew Comp had those, unless you are specifically testing it.
Using your 84/82 I think you need a larger housing like 1.00a/r or 1.10a/r. I was in the same boat debating whether to go down in housing or to try another turbine to gain my spool. I did not want to go down and choke out the turbine wheel.
Who picked the 84/82 dimensions? I never knew Comp had those, unless you are specifically testing it.
