Budget/eBay head studs
Bought a set of head studs from kmj performance last week and the hex bit slots where machined all wrong. Called them up, told them the problem and he said he checked the warehouse and all the one they had where messed up. The hex bit slots on some of them where shaped almost like circles. He sent me a return label though and I returned them. Don't know whether to buy some more studs from alper motorsports or just use arp head bolts. My car is just a mild street car so I really don't even see the need for studs
Bought a set of head studs from kmj performance last week and the hex bit slots where machined all wrong. Called them up, told them the problem and he said he checked the warehouse and all the one they had where messed up. The hex bit slots on some of them where shaped almost like circles. He sent me a return label though and I returned them. Don't know whether to buy some more studs from alper motorsports or just use arp head bolts. My car is just a mild street car so I really don't even see the need for studs
Bought a set of head studs from kmj performance last week and the hex bit slots where machined all wrong. Called them up, told them the problem and he said he checked the warehouse and all the one they had where messed up. The hex bit slots on some of them where shaped almost like circles. He sent me a return label though and I returned them. Don't know whether to buy some more studs from alper motorsports or just use arp head bolts. My car is just a mild street car so I really don't even see the need for studs
wouldn't fit half on the nuts I just dumped them in the trash didn't
even bother getting a refund.
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TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 728
Likes: 3
So I'm just going to throw this one out there....
Alper, KMJ... and all of the other chinese brand studs all come from Speedmaster (formerly Pro Comp). You can say you have these studs or those studs, but in all likely hood its the exact same piece thats been contracted in China by Speedmaster and sold to another company that puts their name on them blah blah. So I bought my studs straight from Pro Comp/Speedmaster last week. I just received an email from them along with a refund. The email reads as follows:
"Very sorry for the inconvenience, the item you purchased has recently been discovered to have some flaws within the steel strength. We rather not send you something that you may have issues with. This is your full refund."
I honestly have to give it to them. After all of the stories about broken/snapped studs, they've decided to do something about it. Hopefully whatever solution they come up with is the same price. Its not often a company dealing in Chinese parts goes back to improve a design that they are already selling hundreds of. Pro Comp is probably the only company I've heard of that does this for their automotive parts.
I do see that some of you recently bought studs from them. If this was by some chance a quality issue and a bad batch of studs has been shipped, be aware that you may end up with less than you paid for.
Alper, KMJ... and all of the other chinese brand studs all come from Speedmaster (formerly Pro Comp). You can say you have these studs or those studs, but in all likely hood its the exact same piece thats been contracted in China by Speedmaster and sold to another company that puts their name on them blah blah. So I bought my studs straight from Pro Comp/Speedmaster last week. I just received an email from them along with a refund. The email reads as follows:
"Very sorry for the inconvenience, the item you purchased has recently been discovered to have some flaws within the steel strength. We rather not send you something that you may have issues with. This is your full refund."
I honestly have to give it to them. After all of the stories about broken/snapped studs, they've decided to do something about it. Hopefully whatever solution they come up with is the same price. Its not often a company dealing in Chinese parts goes back to improve a design that they are already selling hundreds of. Pro Comp is probably the only company I've heard of that does this for their automotive parts.
I do see that some of you recently bought studs from them. If this was by some chance a quality issue and a bad batch of studs has been shipped, be aware that you may end up with less than you paid for.
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
So I'm just going to throw this one out there....
Alper, KMJ... and all of the other chinese brand studs all come from Speedmaster (formerly Pro Comp). You can say you have these studs or those studs, but in all likely hood its the exact same piece thats been contracted in China by Speedmaster and sold to another company that puts their name on them blah blah. So I bought my studs straight from Pro Comp/Speedmaster last week. I just received an email from them along with a refund. The email reads as follows:
"Very sorry for the inconvenience, the item you purchased has recently been discovered to have some flaws within the steel strength. We rather not send you something that you may have issues with. This is your full refund."
I honestly have to give it to them. After all of the stories about broken/snapped studs, they've decided to do something about it. Hopefully whatever solution they come up with is the same price. Its not often a company dealing in Chinese parts goes back to improve a design that they are already selling hundreds of. Pro Comp is probably the only company I've heard of that does this for their automotive parts.
I do see that some of you recently bought studs from them. If this was by some chance a quality issue and a bad batch of studs has been shipped, be aware that you may end up with less than you paid for.
Alper, KMJ... and all of the other chinese brand studs all come from Speedmaster (formerly Pro Comp). You can say you have these studs or those studs, but in all likely hood its the exact same piece thats been contracted in China by Speedmaster and sold to another company that puts their name on them blah blah. So I bought my studs straight from Pro Comp/Speedmaster last week. I just received an email from them along with a refund. The email reads as follows:
"Very sorry for the inconvenience, the item you purchased has recently been discovered to have some flaws within the steel strength. We rather not send you something that you may have issues with. This is your full refund."
I honestly have to give it to them. After all of the stories about broken/snapped studs, they've decided to do something about it. Hopefully whatever solution they come up with is the same price. Its not often a company dealing in Chinese parts goes back to improve a design that they are already selling hundreds of. Pro Comp is probably the only company I've heard of that does this for their automotive parts.
I do see that some of you recently bought studs from them. If this was by some chance a quality issue and a bad batch of studs has been shipped, be aware that you may end up with less than you paid for.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 728
Likes: 3
And Pro Comp has went back dozens of times and modified their products. So yes.
I wish they would have stolen some of ARP's forging skills. Then I wouldn't be stuck paying $300+ for a set of simple hardware.
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
I've had the opportunity to take the full tour of ARPs manufacturing facilities in Ventura CA. Pretty interesting process. I suppose I was a bit on the "why is it so expensive, its just a bolt" side. After getting the process of how the hardware is actually made and all the steps required to make even the easiest valve cover stud to the most complex F1 car hardware.
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
Not trying to change anyones mind here. Just wanted to show some of what I've seen on my visits to ARP.
Pictures (from L to R) -
1. Bolts start as "wire". Pretty wild. Guess I never gave it any thought. Come in big rolls and sorted by material type. All the stainless steel stuff is coated in copper as a lubricant for the machining process.
2. Wire is fed into a machine that cuts a piece off the spool and then presses in 5 or 6 steps. Cold heading.
3. Parts in various stages of the process. The blue machine against the wall are all over the place. They are essentially microscopes where the operator can put parts under to measure the dimensions based on the work order for the part. Depending on what they are producing gives the number of pieces that are inspected at each step in the process. Time consuming, but necessary to ensure the finished product is what they designed.
4. Bolts in the racks heading for heat treating. I think these are 6.0L furds. Which were ALL over the place. With their diesel stuff popping heads off, the only fix is to stud em. Crazy bad Navistar design.
Here is a video I made of bolts going into the heat treating machine. Beavermatic. lol
5. Stress testing machine. Nasty little set up that cycles bolts to fatigue. Very loud when one lets go. lol Was cool to watch.
I have a few dozen more if anyone wants to see em.
Pictures (from L to R) -
1. Bolts start as "wire". Pretty wild. Guess I never gave it any thought. Come in big rolls and sorted by material type. All the stainless steel stuff is coated in copper as a lubricant for the machining process.
2. Wire is fed into a machine that cuts a piece off the spool and then presses in 5 or 6 steps. Cold heading.
3. Parts in various stages of the process. The blue machine against the wall are all over the place. They are essentially microscopes where the operator can put parts under to measure the dimensions based on the work order for the part. Depending on what they are producing gives the number of pieces that are inspected at each step in the process. Time consuming, but necessary to ensure the finished product is what they designed.
4. Bolts in the racks heading for heat treating. I think these are 6.0L furds. Which were ALL over the place. With their diesel stuff popping heads off, the only fix is to stud em. Crazy bad Navistar design.
Here is a video I made of bolts going into the heat treating machine. Beavermatic. lol
5. Stress testing machine. Nasty little set up that cycles bolts to fatigue. Very loud when one lets go. lol Was cool to watch.
I have a few dozen more if anyone wants to see em.
The point is the design is not complicated and there is no patent on it to be stolen. The forging process for 8740 chromoly steel is not patented or able to be “stolen” either.
Minimum tensile strength of a standard grade 8 bolt is 150,000 psi. ARP claims 190,000. ARP LS head stud kit boils down to about $10-12 per stud/washer/nut combo. The same grade 8 stud/washer/nut combo could be made for about a $1-2. So your paying 10X the cost for a bolt that is roughly 20% stronger than the minimum strength of a grade 8 bolt.
I installed a china LS stud kit this winter. The machine work on the hardware was very poor.(the nuts especially) Standard grade 8 hardware from your local hardware store is machined better. I’d try a quality grade 8 stud kit if one was made. It may perform as well as the china knockoffs… may not.
My issue with ARP is It costs no more to produce an LS series stud than it does to produce a Gen1 SBC stud. Gen 1 SBC stud kits are less than half an LS series head stud kit. I understand the LS has a couple more fasteners, but don’t understand the huge price difference.
Minimum tensile strength of a standard grade 8 bolt is 150,000 psi. ARP claims 190,000. ARP LS head stud kit boils down to about $10-12 per stud/washer/nut combo. The same grade 8 stud/washer/nut combo could be made for about a $1-2. So your paying 10X the cost for a bolt that is roughly 20% stronger than the minimum strength of a grade 8 bolt.
I installed a china LS stud kit this winter. The machine work on the hardware was very poor.(the nuts especially) Standard grade 8 hardware from your local hardware store is machined better. I’d try a quality grade 8 stud kit if one was made. It may perform as well as the china knockoffs… may not.
My issue with ARP is It costs no more to produce an LS series stud than it does to produce a Gen1 SBC stud. Gen 1 SBC stud kits are less than half an LS series head stud kit. I understand the LS has a couple more fasteners, but don’t understand the huge price difference.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 350
Likes: 25
From: North Shore MA
My issue with ARP is It costs no more to produce an LS series stud than it does to produce a Gen1 SBC stud. Gen 1 SBC stud kits are less than half an LS series head stud kit. I understand the LS has a couple more fasteners, but don’t understand the huge price difference.
They think because we have an LS based engine, we make it rain 24-7. Well I'll have you know I only make it rain on the weekends.
So I'm just going to throw this one out there....
Alper, KMJ... and all of the other chinese brand studs all come from Speedmaster (formerly Pro Comp). You can say you have these studs or those studs, but in all likely hood its the exact same piece thats been contracted in China by Speedmaster and sold to another company that puts their name on them blah blah. So I bought my studs straight from Pro Comp/Speedmaster last week. I just received an email from them along with a refund. The email reads as follows:
"Very sorry for the inconvenience, the item you purchased has recently been discovered to have some flaws within the steel strength. We rather not send you something that you may have issues with. This is your full refund."
I honestly have to give it to them. After all of the stories about broken/snapped studs, they've decided to do something about it. Hopefully whatever solution they come up with is the same price. Its not often a company dealing in Chinese parts goes back to improve a design that they are already selling hundreds of. Pro Comp is probably the only company I've heard of that does this for their automotive parts.
I do see that some of you recently bought studs from them. If this was by some chance a quality issue and a bad batch of studs has been shipped, be aware that you may end up with less than you paid for.
Alper, KMJ... and all of the other chinese brand studs all come from Speedmaster (formerly Pro Comp). You can say you have these studs or those studs, but in all likely hood its the exact same piece thats been contracted in China by Speedmaster and sold to another company that puts their name on them blah blah. So I bought my studs straight from Pro Comp/Speedmaster last week. I just received an email from them along with a refund. The email reads as follows:
"Very sorry for the inconvenience, the item you purchased has recently been discovered to have some flaws within the steel strength. We rather not send you something that you may have issues with. This is your full refund."
I honestly have to give it to them. After all of the stories about broken/snapped studs, they've decided to do something about it. Hopefully whatever solution they come up with is the same price. Its not often a company dealing in Chinese parts goes back to improve a design that they are already selling hundreds of. Pro Comp is probably the only company I've heard of that does this for their automotive parts.
I do see that some of you recently bought studs from them. If this was by some chance a quality issue and a bad batch of studs has been shipped, be aware that you may end up with less than you paid for.
On Feb 5 I too received a refund from Speedmaster. They stated:
Originally Posted by Speedmaster/Pro Comp Electronics
Thanks for your patience, unfortunately we have to refund your money as this item was deemed defective before it shipped, we caught it during our final QC check. they seem to have stress cracks, we rather refund you than send you a substandard product.
On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
The point is the design is not complicated and there is no patent on it to be stolen. The forging process for 8740 chromoly steel is not patented or able to be “stolen” either.
Minimum tensile strength of a standard grade 8 bolt is 150,000 psi. ARP claims 190,000. ARP LS head stud kit boils down to about $10-12 per stud/washer/nut combo. The same grade 8 stud/washer/nut combo could be made for about a $1-2. So your paying 10X the cost for a bolt that is roughly 20% stronger than the minimum strength of a grade 8 bolt.
I installed a china LS stud kit this winter. The machine work on the hardware was very poor.(the nuts especially) Standard grade 8 hardware from your local hardware store is machined better. I’d try a quality grade 8 stud kit if one was made. It may perform as well as the china knockoffs… may not.
My issue with ARP is It costs no more to produce an LS series stud than it does to produce a Gen1 SBC stud. Gen 1 SBC stud kits are less than half an LS series head stud kit. I understand the LS has a couple more fasteners, but don’t understand the huge price difference.
Minimum tensile strength of a standard grade 8 bolt is 150,000 psi. ARP claims 190,000. ARP LS head stud kit boils down to about $10-12 per stud/washer/nut combo. The same grade 8 stud/washer/nut combo could be made for about a $1-2. So your paying 10X the cost for a bolt that is roughly 20% stronger than the minimum strength of a grade 8 bolt.
I installed a china LS stud kit this winter. The machine work on the hardware was very poor.(the nuts especially) Standard grade 8 hardware from your local hardware store is machined better. I’d try a quality grade 8 stud kit if one was made. It may perform as well as the china knockoffs… may not.
My issue with ARP is It costs no more to produce an LS series stud than it does to produce a Gen1 SBC stud. Gen 1 SBC stud kits are less than half an LS series head stud kit. I understand the LS has a couple more fasteners, but don’t understand the huge price difference.
I've had the chance to tour the ARP facility 3 times. They welcome visitors and I encourage anyone to stop in and see the process for yourself. Made me realize that a bolt isn't something that just spits itself out and there's no rhyme or reason to it, but a very detailed operation from the PHD level guys designing the product for the customers needs, all the way down to the folks who put the finished product in a package.
Expensive is a relative term and maybe you're better suited for the Chinese knock offs. I cant justify it.
And that's the problem. That you are ignorant (that's not a derogatory term, it just means you lack the knowledge or understanding) of the process in manufacturing this type of product. That all hardware should cost the same. I'm by no means an expert, but article after article has been written about overseas folks taking US made, designed, engineered and R&D product and making copies of it. If that isn't stealing, then I'm not sure we have the same value of a thief.
I've had the chance to tour the ARP facility 3 times. They welcome visitors and I encourage anyone to stop in and see the process for yourself. Made me realize that a bolt isn't something that just spits itself out and there's no rhyme or reason to it, but a very detailed operation from the PHD level guys designing the product for the customers needs, all the way down to the folks who put the finished product in a package.
Expensive is a relative term and maybe you're better suited for the Chinese knock offs. I cant justify it.
I've had the chance to tour the ARP facility 3 times. They welcome visitors and I encourage anyone to stop in and see the process for yourself. Made me realize that a bolt isn't something that just spits itself out and there's no rhyme or reason to it, but a very detailed operation from the PHD level guys designing the product for the customers needs, all the way down to the folks who put the finished product in a package.
Expensive is a relative term and maybe you're better suited for the Chinese knock offs. I cant justify it.
The company in question (or any company) Can purchase 8740 steel stock and machine hardware from it. The process to do this is not some well kept R&D secret. With the proper equipment, any well equipped hardware machining company can make a stud from 8740. While the machine work may be poor, and the alloy used sub-par, ARP does not have a patent on the process. Again, I’m not claiming china doesn't steal designs and make all kinds poor copies. But in this case you’re wrong in thinking anyone stole anything from ARP.
Last edited by Forcefed86; Mar 7, 2014 at 01:29 PM.