STS kit vs Custom Rear Mount?
08-05-2013, 06:20 PM
#1
STS kit vs Custom Rear Mount? So I am new to the whole FI world and I'm a total noob when it comes to it. First off I understand front mount is more efficient ect ect...but I like my ac sway bar and keeping the ugly alternator down below. Plus I like the bolt on factor.
My question is, would it be cheaper and better to buy a used sts kit or to buy used parts (turbo, wg, fmic,...) and have a shop custom build the plumbing?
I'm not looking for anything crazy, just a 450-500rwh weekend warrior. For those of you who have a sts kit or custom rear mount, would it be possible to do an entire build with tune for around $2000-2500?
Car is a bolt on A4. I was originally thinking of going the HCI route but have been toying with the idea of a turbo for a while.
Thanks in advance!
My question is, would it be cheaper and better to buy a used sts kit or to buy used parts (turbo, wg, fmic,...) and have a shop custom build the plumbing?
I'm not looking for anything crazy, just a 450-500rwh weekend warrior. For those of you who have a sts kit or custom rear mount, would it be possible to do an entire build with tune for around $2000-2500?
Car is a bolt on A4. I was originally thinking of going the HCI route but have been toying with the idea of a turbo for a while.
Thanks in advance!
08-13-2013, 10:44 PM
#4
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$2500? NO....
I did a complete (and still perfecting) a complete custom rear mount turbo and im still at about $5000+ although this is with EVERYTHING, its still no where the low cost you're mentioning. You "might" be able to if you find someone trying to get rid of a sts basic kit and arnt looking to get back their money.
If your not in a hurry, if you can get the pipe work, get that, and then upgrade all the sts supplied hard parts like the turbo, oil pump, intercooler
its a trial and error experience unless you have dont this before. Testing is the fun part and learning what works and what doesnt has its reqards personally if you go the fabricated route.
I did a complete (and still perfecting) a complete custom rear mount turbo and im still at about $5000+ although this is with EVERYTHING, its still no where the low cost you're mentioning. You "might" be able to if you find someone trying to get rid of a sts basic kit and arnt looking to get back their money.
If your not in a hurry, if you can get the pipe work, get that, and then upgrade all the sts supplied hard parts like the turbo, oil pump, intercooler
its a trial and error experience unless you have dont this before. Testing is the fun part and learning what works and what doesnt has its reqards personally if you go the fabricated route.
08-14-2013, 10:26 AM
#5
i know a guy that might still have his ,complete upgraded for 3g,ive seen kits for 1500-2000 range but they need work,i think your picking rearmount because its cheaper,reality it still cost a good buck,and after chasing leaks n all the headaches you will wish ya had a front mount,i like procharger,these engine bays are ugly anyways
08-14-2013, 03:25 PM
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I am always concerned for anybody that would spend more than $1500 to make their own custom rear mount turbo system. Even if you buy a quality turbo, intercooler, wastegate, and turbowerx oil scavenger pump you only have about $250 worth of aluminized piping IF THAT. I can fab together an entire kit in less than eight hours. Done two of them so far. Even if you decide to have your charge pipes powdercoated, and change the diameter of the exhaust pipes you are still way less than buying an STS kit.
Take the extra money and buy a quick spool valve (or second wastegate), with a twinscroll turbo like Zombie and go get a dyno-tune. Spend less and go just as fast with no lag as a front mount. I got full boost in first gear under 3000 rpms on a little six banger.
Take the extra money and buy a quick spool valve (or second wastegate), with a twinscroll turbo like Zombie and go get a dyno-tune. Spend less and go just as fast with no lag as a front mount. I got full boost in first gear under 3000 rpms on a little six banger.
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08-14-2013, 09:29 PM
#9
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gonna have to disagree with the trans comment. rear mounts inherently are a bit laggy. he isnt gonna get insta torque that superchargers or very efficent fornt mount turbos are gonna give you. Rear mounts, unless you got a tiny 60mm on there, take a sec to build the power. unless you slam it every chance you get, a 3200+ stall in your stock A4 with a external trans cooler will do fine for awhile.
whaat you need to remember whats really gonna cost you regards of route is tuning. Expect at least $600 unless you got aa hook up. I paid $200 for hp tuner credits alone, and then $600 for custom SD 2 bar MAP tune and then had to pay another $200 for a separate tuing session that didnt even get to finish due to boost leaks.
The least amount of "joints" in the intake and exhaust stream, the less amount of potential boost leaks. im having an issue with my ypipe since i cant get a welder to properly weld the tops of where the exhaust sits to seal up the exhaust leaks and is causing my own issues. i started my setup wrong with long tube heads ( a rear mount nono) and 3" OR ypipe. im in the process of looking for a 2.5" ypipe to gain some heat and pressure and under car clearance. i actually managed to get all the pipe save for one in the back, out from under the car
which is now making my ypip the lowest part of the car that is still scrapping on some road iregularitys. youll have to look into my thread to find that one out
whaat you need to remember whats really gonna cost you regards of route is tuning. Expect at least $600 unless you got aa hook up. I paid $200 for hp tuner credits alone, and then $600 for custom SD 2 bar MAP tune and then had to pay another $200 for a separate tuing session that didnt even get to finish due to boost leaks.
The least amount of "joints" in the intake and exhaust stream, the less amount of potential boost leaks. im having an issue with my ypipe since i cant get a welder to properly weld the tops of where the exhaust sits to seal up the exhaust leaks and is causing my own issues. i started my setup wrong with long tube heads ( a rear mount nono) and 3" OR ypipe. im in the process of looking for a 2.5" ypipe to gain some heat and pressure and under car clearance. i actually managed to get all the pipe save for one in the back, out from under the car
which is now making my ypip the lowest part of the car that is still scrapping on some road iregularitys. youll have to look into my thread to find that one out
08-14-2013, 09:42 PM
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gonna have to disagree with the trans comment. rear mounts inherently are a bit laggy. he isnt gonna get insta torque that superchargers or very efficent fornt mount turbos are gonna give you. Rear mounts, unless you got a tiny 60mm on there, take a sec to build the power. unless you slam it every chance you get, a 3200+ stall in your stock A4 with a external trans cooler will do fine for awhile.
whaat you need to remember whats really gonna cost you regards of route is tuning. Expect at least $600 unless you got aa hook up. I paid $200 for hp tuner credits alone, and then $600 for custom SD 2 bar MAP tune and then had to pay another $200 for a separate tuing session that didnt even get to finish due to boost leaks.
The least amount of "joints" in the intake and exhaust stream, the less amount of potential boost leaks. im having an issue with my ypipe since i cant get a welder to properly weld the tops of where the exhaust sits to seal up the exhaust leaks and is causing my own issues. i started my setup wrong with long tube heads ( a rear mount nono) and 3" OR ypipe. im in the process of looking for a 2.5" ypipe to gain some heat and pressure and under car clearance. i actually managed to get all the pipe save for one in the back, out from under the car which is now making my ypip the lowest part of the car that is still scrapping on some road iregularitys. youll have to look into my thread to find that one out
whaat you need to remember whats really gonna cost you regards of route is tuning. Expect at least $600 unless you got aa hook up. I paid $200 for hp tuner credits alone, and then $600 for custom SD 2 bar MAP tune and then had to pay another $200 for a separate tuing session that didnt even get to finish due to boost leaks.
The least amount of "joints" in the intake and exhaust stream, the less amount of potential boost leaks. im having an issue with my ypipe since i cant get a welder to properly weld the tops of where the exhaust sits to seal up the exhaust leaks and is causing my own issues. i started my setup wrong with long tube heads ( a rear mount nono) and 3" OR ypipe. im in the process of looking for a 2.5" ypipe to gain some heat and pressure and under car clearance. i actually managed to get all the pipe save for one in the back, out from under the car
which is now making my ypip the lowest part of the car that is still scrapping on some road iregularitys. youll have to look into my thread to find that one out By the way, are you going to use the "Anti Lag" like I mentioned. I don't have hardly any lag with the twinscroll and second WG.
08-14-2013, 10:52 PM
#11
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i holding off on the spool valve for now. mostly cause it seems like thye stpped making them lol and to finalize my current setup (locate all leaks and spot on tune) Also the current turbo i have is actaully doing pretty well at spooing even if i dont get almost any in 1st lol but then get most if not all in 2nd gear lol
08-15-2013, 01:16 AM
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He had mentioned 450-500rwhp, and that was around what I was at when I had my rear mount. My stock trans didn't last more than a week after installing the turbo. I didn't beat on the car hard, but other than normal driving I gave it a few spirited runs like anyone would.
Just my experience, if you are going to have any fun with the car at all I would save up for a tranny as well.
Just my experience, if you are going to have any fun with the car at all I would save up for a tranny as well.
08-15-2013, 12:36 PM
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He had mentioned 450-500rwhp, and that was around what I was at when I had my rear mount. My stock trans didn't last more than a week after installing the turbo. I didn't beat on the car hard, but other than normal driving I gave it a few spirited runs like anyone would.
Just my experience, if you are going to have any fun with the car at all I would save up for a tranny as well.
Just my experience, if you are going to have any fun with the car at all I would save up for a tranny as well.
08-15-2013, 12:53 PM
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i holding off on the spool valve for now. mostly cause it seems like thye stpped making them lol and to finalize my current setup (locate all leaks and spot on tune) Also the current turbo i have is actaully doing pretty well at spooing even if i dont get almost any in 1st lol but then get most if not all in 2nd gear lol
. It is night and day difference from what you experience now. I see that you hae the On3 turbo in your build. I went to Ebay and purchased a GodSpeed T4 turbo with a .86AR twinscroll housing. Funny thing is the same CHRA on my Masterpower .70AR twinscroll fit the Ebay. They really are clones ! Now you might be able to get a housing on the cheapside on Ebay that will fit that turbo. I would look for a .96AR twinscroll (because it wil be essentially halved to .48) to give that down low punch and excellent top end.
08-15-2013, 05:33 PM
#15
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yeah, i got a vband priot to the inlet so i can adjust the turbo and whatnot up and aorund into place, but the resonators are welded which are still leaking due to incompedence. i do still have a couple band clamps up on the ypipe that im gonnna get rid of when i get a smaller diameter ypipe.
08-16-2013, 02:18 AM
#18
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Mine's held for over a year!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-B_Weld
"The product J-B WELD is a two-part epoxy adhesive (or filler) that can withstand high-temperature environments. J-B WELD can be used to bond surfaces made from metal, porcelain, wood, ceramic, or glass,[3] plus marble, PVC, ABS, concrete, fiberglass, wood, fabric, or paper.[4] Avoid using alcohol to clean surfaces.[5] J-B WELD is water-proof, petroleum/chemical-resistant (when hardened), acid-resistant, plus resists shock, vibration, and extreme temperature fluctuations.[4] J-B WELD can withstand a constant temperature of 500 °F (260 °C), and the maximum temperature threshold is approximately 600 °F (316 °C) for 10 minutes."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J-B_Weld
"The product J-B WELD is a two-part epoxy adhesive (or filler) that can withstand high-temperature environments. J-B WELD can be used to bond surfaces made from metal, porcelain, wood, ceramic, or glass,[3] plus marble, PVC, ABS, concrete, fiberglass, wood, fabric, or paper.[4] Avoid using alcohol to clean surfaces.[5] J-B WELD is water-proof, petroleum/chemical-resistant (when hardened), acid-resistant, plus resists shock, vibration, and extreme temperature fluctuations.[4] J-B WELD can withstand a constant temperature of 500 °F (260 °C), and the maximum temperature threshold is approximately 600 °F (316 °C) for 10 minutes."
08-16-2013, 09:04 AM
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yeah, i got a vband priot to the inlet so i can adjust the turbo and whatnot up and aorund into place, but the resonators are welded which are still leaking due to incompedence. i do still have a couple band clamps up on the ypipe that im gonnna get rid of when i get a smaller diameter ypipe.
Joshua, i've been following your build from the start, i have long tubes and 3in exhaust on my car now. i picked up some stock 2001+ ls1 exhaust manifolds and i bought the down pipes, y pipe, and intermediate pipe from walker (aka dynomax), my down pipes do not have cats like the ones in the picuture, but they have all the flanges, o2 bungs, and clamps (im going to have mine welded), ill have to measure mine if your interested i think they are 2 3/4, as you can see the intermediate pipe is "wrinkle" bent, its not as good as mandrel but better then exhaust shop "crush" bend. i have not found any other affordable options
summit has the info here
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wlk-88028
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wlk-55282
09-02-2013, 11:32 PM
#20
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got a SLP ypipe welded in place now. got ride of that 3" ORY. So much more ground clearance now. as soon as I wrap it and double check the cold side for leaks, ill get back with results.
