coltboostin

Hense why I've logged around 1000 miles on the car this year, a good 300 on which was probably at full WOT in "Mexico", right?

Or even better, why I drove a total of 4 hours on a 90+degree day to go to the track, right?

Yup-I live for the dyno!!!


Thanks man! It does not bother me really-the car is meeting and exceeding my expectations for dirty cheap. Some people just like it bitch-so is life its seems!


The car fell right on its face in 5th, and didn't see full boost again until the trap. It almost acted like the gate was stuck open, it was that lazy. But somehow-some people thing that should not affect the cars performance.

Since I don't have a tach I may have short shifted...but it does the same on the highway. I just need more RPM and a much lower rear gear ratio. I wanted to make another pass and just take 3rd and 4th to the limiter but as mentioned, the guy I came with broke, so it was time to go.

slowride

iTrader: (3)

Somebody just needs to argue I guess. We fricken run a manual trans race down here at cf every year and my friend has a turbo manual ls FC so I'm fully in the know. His car is close to 2900lbs with a single t4 turbo 6.0 iron block, 8.8 and no intercooler. This guys car might be an aluminum block but it has 2 turbos 2 gates more piping etc. if it's all steel piping I can see the weight. Friend went 9.75 at 150 with around 18psi on E/meth which I would guess was close to 700-750 whp. We have had a few guys come on here and give there times also which seems to jive with what you were doing. I just don't get it.

I've only been racing for geez 20 years. I can see scrubbing off some mph with the shift to 5th also. He would be in the low 140's at the shift to 5th around 7000 rpm with the stock gears and a 26" tire. **** isn't going to run well in the heat either running a air/air IC. It's just not that far fetched is all.

coltboostin

Thanks. Yes, some people just like to argue!

My car is a 90 T2, with a sunroof, the heaviest FC I could buy. Yes, all pipes are steel (thats all I can weld at the house) including the IC pipes, and the entire exhaust! If you look back a few pages-the 4 inch flex section alone is a good 30-35 lbs lol. Its not optimal. Also for that pass, my 220lbs friend was with me int he car. Hell, I even had the sunroof open-forgot to close it!

Also I am stuck at 6k redline since the motor is stock-don't want to push it without at least valve springs. Really, I just need to work on putting a different rear end in the car. Would love to see your buddies car if you had a link?

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

Still here, was on vacation...

No one can defy the laws of physics. Which is what the OP is claiming. The car behaved like a typical manual setup. Crappy ET, and a little more trap speed. Mine ran very similar speeds with a 8.6:1 CR. 5.3 at a very similar weight and boost levels, OEM cam, heads, etc... (slip below)


My iron head/block fully loaded turbo GXL FC with a big OD trans (200R4) weighed 2640 lbs. (moroso track scales) Thats all options, sunroof, factory dash electric windows 5 lug, original wheels, original seats glass, rear end, steel pipes, full exhaust, etc... Where are you getting your "about 3000 lbs" weight estimate? I'm not claiming your wrong, but 3000lbs seems way off. A confirmed exact weight would be great.

Dump scales said 2950 when it made the run below. This was shifting at 5400rpm at 17lbs. (auto car, single turbo)

Very similar power levels if you look at the 1/8 and 1/4 trap speeds. The OP's car runs good for what it is. (Congrats! ) but it's not making anywhere near the dyno claimed power levels with those trap speeds.

slowride

iTrader: (3)

How can you use his trap with a shift to 5th so close to the end? I mean if one lets off close to the stripe it clearly shows in trap speed. I agree his dyno looked high for what it was a few months ago but in a cool room that could help quite a bit. I can't rember if he gave us corrected (which shouldn't be used) and uncorrected numbers before, but high for a stock engine at 2 bar. Rember he has a paperweight clutch, no cats, and obviously low back pressure if it's not floating the exhaust valves at these boost levels with stock springs. Turbos are s cover 67mm billet t4 with .81 turbines and 64mm wheels. That's a large set of turbos on a 5.7 manual car for fun street driving.

Stock ls1's on a actual engine dyno will put down 390+ chp running dyno headers, tune and no accessories. So who knows what a bone stock ls1 dynos in a FC with such light drivetrain parts, tiny light wheels, etc I'd bet it takes less power to turn the import rear than a 10 bolt and all that little stuff adds up. let's just see if he gets some sort of drivetrain in this thing and puts down more what you would expect of trap etc.

oscs

iTrader: (19)

What are you confused about? I said around 145mph

coltboostin

That's where I'm at with it, but unless it traps 170 someone is going to try and poke holes lol. I will admit that the night we dyno'd was perfect turbo weather but I cant help what the car made!

850.55 uncorrected
852.98 SAE
872.59 STD

@21psi

edwardzracing

iTrader: (59)

Things you might say if you drive a dyno queen and track numbers fail to back up dyno numbers:

"When you are literally spinning though the 1/8th, you are losing time opportunity to accelerate, and losing mph."
"I need a lower gear. Also, if I could be in my power band more of the pass, it will get significantly faster with no change in power."
"I cant WAIT to see what she does when I can apply full power, and keep it in the power band longer with a better rear gear!"
"Also worth noting-this was also without a Tach. Still working on sorting that out, but I was guessing-to-shift...not fun when you have to make 4 of them. Looking back, I may have short sifted 5th and thats why it had a lazy recovery?"
"The car is a heavy pig of an RX7 around 3000lbs, and had 400lbs worth on people in it for that pass, so race weight that day was approximately 3400lbs"
"Auto RWD turbo cars defiantly run better on track-your putting the power down basically the whole pass while I am constantly shifting and falling out of boost...rise...repeat. I am 100% sure my car would TRAP and ET better with an auto"
"Either way, my car was 220 lbs heavier, and I was running 1 more PSI, and trapped almost 3mph faster, and assume the car was making 700-715whp that day. "
"The car fell right on its face in 5th, and didn't see full boost again until the trap. It almost acted like the gate was stuck open, it was that lazy."

Those are a few of the excuses that I think are being referred to.

I just have a few questions about this track visit.

First of all, when can we see this thing on a scale to know what it really weighs?
Why did you decide to de-boost it for the track? You dyno'd on 21 PSI, but you raced on 15. Was this to try and keep from breaking stuff since you drove to the track? That would definitely be the "Dyno Queen" thing to do.
You stated that "She was running a bit rich, but rich is safe and I had no way to log or change anything" and then later stated "I started the pass @ 230 degrees of coolant temp, so timing was down and fuel was up." I'm assuming you already tuned for this environment before heading to said track rental since you "had no way to log or change anything"?
Why in the hell was your friend riding with you during the run? That's just comical right there. Clearly this wasn't a visit for you to prove what the car was capable of if you wanted to throw in 200 extra pounds of weight. Then to NOT bring any sort of logging/tuning equipment to try and better the performance seems to also make zero sense to me.

I'm by no means a "hater" of this build. I respect the car greatly... would eat my own for lunch. I fully admit, however, that I am indeed a doubter of these dyno numbers. I have a very difficult time believing this car weighs 3000 pounds as well. There's no way, even with your buddy in the car (still blows me away that you had a passenger) that this thing weighed the same as stock48's Nova that's been 8.20's at 160+ while weighing in at 3400lbs. If your car really was weighing in at 3400 with you and your friend in it, then you've got a long way to go to prove those dyno numbers 'cause that Nova is putting bus lengths on you as I type this.

And this ends the ranting doubts of yet another "Cheerio Pisser".

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

It’s not that the dyno readings “looked high” It’s that they are physically impossible.

No freek’n way a tired bone stock LS1 is putting out 390HP NA through the factory manifolds with the factory cam/springs/intake etc. I’ve owned and worked with several LS1’s. They are turds out of the box. I'd eat those **** soaked cheerios if my C5 made 390chp. You’d be lucky to see 320chp out of a tired old LS1.

OP, it's strange that boost fell when you added load. The larger the RPM drop the more load is applied and the more boost should rise. I’d see 1700+rpm drops on the shift with my 4.8. The logs showed boost would rise a good 1-2psi at the shift.

Were you logging these runs? Can we see some RPM/load data?

slowride

iTrader: (3)

I said engine dyno on the 390 just to show how high it could be without the drivetrain. Pointing out that same tired 320 whp vette you mention might make make more power in his car with lighter parts to spin. That 320 whp vette on the east coast in good weather would make a lot more uncorrected also. Just pointing out the dyno was on the best day, his clutch, rear, wheels/tires etc are light, turbos large and free flowing. So the dyno could be correct even though all things point to ideal conditions.

Look at it like this, would that 300-320 whp ls1 make 600 whp with any turbo on it at 2 bar? of course not the larger turbo would make more. Do aluminum flywheels reduce drivetrain loss on a dyno spin up, sure do. Op do you guys have any dyno runs from stock cars you could post. We all know what they put down for the most part. I'm pooped

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

Correct. CHP or Crank HP would be on an Engine dyno… dude.

320 was crank HP, no one is talking about WHP. Assuming the LS1 was in tip top factory new condition and the turbo system was 100% efficient the numbers still aren't possible!

On the OP's setup, a pair of 100mm turbos aren’t going to more than double the NA HP per bar. Free flowing or not, the numbers aren’t possible. Zero track data is required to make this point. It’s a fact…end of discussion.

Tjabo

Hey, you guys are sucking the fun out of the internet like a damn black hole -- Cut it out! Lol

edwardzracing

iTrader: (59)

Are you kidding me? This thread is so full of epicness, LOL. You're in the presence of an aluminum 5.7 liter LS1 breaking all sorts of barriers that man never thought possible. This bad boy brings whole new meaning to the term "Touched by the hand of god!"

Tjabo

Haha, can't go wrong with Spongebob!

coltboostin

I dont have time to go back and forth with every hater here, but I will answer a few of your questions...

Why did you decide to de-boost it for the track? You dyno'd on 21 PSI, but you raced on 15. Was this to try and keep from breaking stuff since you drove to the track? That would definitely be the "Dyno Queen" thing to do.

Yes, it is! It’s a bone freakin stock LS1, and I didn’t want to oil down the track. Figure that would be self explanatory? LOL. Also, it was very lean on that 21psi pull- 13.5 to one up top. Its way out of fuel pump and that power level.

You stated that "She was running a bit rich, but rich is safe and I had no way to log or change anything" and then later stated "I started the pass @ 230 degrees of coolant temp, so timing was down and fuel was up." I'm assuming you already tuned for this environment before heading to said track rental since you "had no way to log or change anything"?

No, I was tuned quickly on a 50 degree day lol, and in Erik’s defense I was pressed for time and we only did WOT work. It was a “quick” tune, something he is not finished with. I know that the map enriches and pulls timing as the temps go up, so yes, without a log I know the timing is down, and my wideband correctly indicated that it was rich. 10.5-10.2 going down track (when I had time to look at it). Its tuned to keep me from blowing it up!

Why in the hell was your friend riding with you during the run? That's just comical right there. Clearly this wasn't a visit for you to prove what the car was capable of if you wanted to throw in 200 extra pounds of weight. Then to NOT bring any sort of logging/tuning equipment to try and better the performance seems to also make zero sense to me.

Your are correct in saying I was not trying to prove anything. It was my first time out with the car. As for a passenger, Um, sorry? LOL. Why did I leave the sunroof open?

"The car fell right on its face in 5th, and didn't see full boost again until the trap. It almost acted like the gate was stuck open, it was that lazy."

Again, it’s an observation of reality. Nothing I can do besides increase the redline significantly to combat this, or not shift into 5th. Working on both.

I'm by no means a "hater" of this build. I respect the car greatly... would eat my own for lunch. I fully admit, however, that I am indeed a doubter of these dyno numbers. I have a very difficult time believing this car weighs 3000 pounds as well. There's no way, even with your buddy in the car (still blows me away that you had a passenger) that this thing weighed the same as stock48's Nova that's been 8.20's at 160+ while weighing in at 3400lbs. If your car really was weighing in at 3400 with you and your friend in it, then you've got a long way to go to prove those dyno numbers 'cause that Nova is putting bus lengths on you as I type this.


Thanks I guess??? And good for stock48. If we follow your logic anyone who's not running 6's with a built motor is a tard. So, **** 95% of the forum, right? LOL If you are comparing a dedicated automatic drag car to my shitty geared M6 street toy that cost less to build than his trans and converter combo, well I can’t help you there! Lol. I can make magic for little to no money, but I can’t fix stupid……


Yes, it can! Multiple people have offered piles of data and math that shows the why, and how this is possible, but you are simply choosing to ignore it. But hey, ignorance is bliss!

edwardzracing

iTrader: (59)

So is that where the title "Dyno queen" comes in to play? You don't care about blowing it up on the dyno (thus the reason for 21 psi, leaned way the **** out, careless attitude), but at a race track where everyone wants to see what the car is really capable of, and where you could back up some of these claims, you decide to ***** foot it? It lasted for a few dyno runs, why don't you feel it will last for what should easily be another 10 second pass? Or are you too worried about all the other, what you claim to be, cheap, parts?

Unfortunately, we're all still waiting on track numbers to back up said dyno numbers. I look forward to you not giving a **** and actually showing up at the track with the same tune/setup as what you had at the dyno. Until then, the debate will continue.

Regardless of what we doubters think, you made it to the track and back home with the car in one piece with some really good times; so big congrats on that. I think there were just a lot of us that expected a little more based on the reported dyno numbers. You can't blame us for that. I, for one, hope the time comes that the car lays down some numbers that make us all eat crow. For now; we'll just continue to wait.

coltboostin

Maybe because I dint want to ******* die? I have seen friends almost die when they lost a motor-oiled the tires and lost control. On track into a wall, and on the street into a tree. Oil on the tires leads to an instantly uncontrollable car. The car does not have a diaper-and it was my ride home. I am at a loss of why I have to explain reasoning for running the car at a "safer" power level. At the end of the day its my car, and I will do what I want with it!

Thanks.

Realize the goals for this build where as follows....

1)Have a 100% streetable turbo LS car for a total $5000 budget
2)Reset the Stock LS1 record
3)Go 9's@150mph in full street trim


I am still working on #3, and am 100% confident I will get there even going into 5th. I an also 100% confident the car will be significantly faster with no other changes when I can get a 3.27 rear gear in there.

This is the first ever Twin Turbo LS FC, Ever! I have always enjoyed doing things differently, being a pioneer on the cheap. I can hop in the car and beat the freakin' **** out of it anytime I want-and it has brought me over 1000 miles of an ear to ear smile. What people think or expect of me or the car means nothing to me. My aim is to achieve my goals-everything else is just white noise.

Captain Slow

You mad, bro? just cause he cames from the DSM/import community, yo?

In all seriousness, just wanted to say I learned a lot reading your posts even if the OP hasn't.

Jwooky

I think what the OP has accomplished, is pretty amazing.

It is his prerogative how hard he wanted to push it, and he has repeatedly stated he has nothing to prove to some folks on here.

Not "all" of us are looking for him to "backup" or prove anything. This was his first time to the track and did very well as far as I am concerned. No need in my eyes to push it too its limits and potentially grenade it to prove a point to a few folks on here before its ready.

It seems some people are a bit envious of what he has accomplished on 5k. Obviously many have spent 10x that and are also perhaps have a little to much ego to admit they are not 100% correct.

I say Kudos to the OP!

SM105K

iTrader: (3)

I agree as well. It has certainly enlightened me.