Subscribed! I'm running the same setup. Almost ready to fire up the new laptop for tuning and hptuners. Kind of tempted to go with the holley system after hearing many good things about it though..

 

Subscribed. Just ordered my Hptuners and this will be a great help.

 

I hope you continue on with showing your tuning process all along. It is very helpful. I am still new to tuning, and will be doing a boosted setup this summer. While I have some ideas of how it needs to be done, it's nice to actually see it. Keep it up, looking great!

 

Why did you set your OLFA to 1.17?

 

The (Gas) formula for this is
Stoich / desired AFR = EQ (ualizer)%

So 14.67 / 12.5 = 1.17

 

This is deff the best post for "starters for dummies",, thanks a ton!

 

Yeah that is going to throw your tuning off for sure. If anything you would want to change this entire table to 1.000.....at 1.17 your adding a bunch of fuel everywhere for no reason when in open loop.

Anything above 1.00 is a adder to the final afr and anything below subtracts from the final afr equation. Hope this helps, might wanna go back and edit that so no one gets mislead.

 

I appreciate all input. At present, everything I'm stating in here is straight from Dan Maslic's book "MASTER EFI TUNING - GM EFI - Second Edition" .
The formula in this book is on page 139. Since the context is tuning prior to dyno testing, and given the many references Dan makes to erring on the side of safety in this very temporary effort, I can only surmise he's providing an extra element of safety in the initial setup. Once the tune has been refined to a satisfactory level, he adds, "Keep in mind that once you've fully completed tuning the vehicle, you will reverse all of these adaptive fuel modifications and return them back to the OE settings."
The text that accompanies this is ...
This will force the ECM to calculate an AFR of 12.54:1 at all times as you have already altered the calibration to operate in open loop at all times. The formula behind this calculation is as follows. The ECM calculates the desired target AFR by dividing the stoichiometric value by this tables value at each IAT and ECT point in the table. So, using the stoichiometric value of 14.67822 that you retrieved earlier, you divide it by 1.17 and your result is 12.5 (14.67822 / 1.17 = 12.545

 

Can't be right.....have you tuned the car actually yet with it set like this?

This table is essentially for warm up fuel adders. Hence why in the lower temp ranges there are values greater than 1.0.

With it set like you have it your part throttle fueling will be commanding 12.50 afr not your set stoich value.

You want to set the entire PE or BE table to that 12.50 value of 1.17 that way once your throttle percent or boost level is reached and enrichment kicks in that is what it will command.

That is of course if you want a WOT afr of 12.50.....seeing how this is boosted your gonna want to set your pe and be table to 11.00-11.50 to be on the safe side.

 

Re read what you wrote from the book and only thing I'm gathering is he wants you to start tuning the ve table in the part throttle portions at a really rich afr which I and many othera will say the same is completely unnecessary. All your gonna do is waste a bunch of gas.

Yes if you tune the lower kpa range of your ve for 12.50 afr and then switch it back to the oem open loop eq values it will automatically fuel for 14.678 or w/e the set stoich value is.

Like I said tho I do not see the point in this step. Your not gonna hurt the motor dialing in your part throttle fueling if it goes a little lean or rich here and there. Youll get that ironed out pretty quick anyway once your using an afr error or lambda error histo.

I would personally just leave that table alone and set your be and pe table to the same value across the board. This is the first time I've ever seen someone change that table like that. I was taught how to tune through pm's and emails between dsx tuning/frost/kyne/and nicd.

11.00 is a good safe starting target afr for BE. That would be 11.00/14.678=.749
1/.749= 1.335.....in your BE and PE table set them to 1.335 across the board.

 

Now I know a lot of tuners turn off the o2's after its tuned so the computer won't learn anything or change the afr on the fly. So if the o2's are locked out, what will you do then,

 

I will have to go with the premise that Dan sets forth in his book. I haven't reached that point in the documentation effort but I've read it. He has you interface your wide band into the tuning effort for every test case he outlines in the book. Using that, you're dialing in the AFR. He outlines spark of course as well. That is a more labor intensive effort, as you would expect. Setting timing quite conservative, dyno'ing, checking where peak torque appears, monitoring knock detection. He then adds a degree or two, re-dyno's and, again, checks for power gain, knock detection, etc. Bumping it up till either knock appears or no gains in power. Once that occurs, he backs timing off a degree or two (to allow for variance of fuel quality you might encounter) and goes with that.

If the O2's remain off then it's in open loop all the time so I would hope your tune is as close to spot on as possible from using the wide band.

 

I agree on the tune, the times in my sig is with a base tune from tuner and o2's off. I'd say it's most likely a real conservative tune. I'm sure there's a lot more power to be had which makes me happy. Keep up the good work in here!

 

You tune with the 02s off with a wideband. Once you dial it all in you can turn your fuel trims back on. I would always disable the ltft's cause they will trim your WOT fueling and you don't want that messed with when your talking forced induction. On a n/a setup yeah no problem.

I use my o2s once the car is tuned. Runs a lot better, when you leave it as a open loop speed density tune it really only runs it's best when the outside temp etc is the same as the day you tuned the car.

I've tried both open loop sd and closed loop sd and I'll be sticking with closed loop. The narrow band o2s do a great job at targeting your set stoich at part throttle so why not let them do their job.

And taubrunit when/if you get hpt and need some help lmk I can swing by and show you everything you need to know. I am local after all. It is really pretty easy, really helps when someone shows you hands on. I had to read and take advice then do it the trial and error way. Worked fine for me for 2 years at 700whp so far on a stock cam only ls1

 

Awesome thread. I am sub'd just to get a handle on what tuning may entail, should I get HPtuners.

 

Thanks! I hope it will help people get engaged with their own tuning efforts. You can download the software for free and play around with it. You can't save any changes you make nor upload a tune without the dongle and some 'credits' that you'd have if you bought it, but it really is nice to show you what you have access to in the tunes. After I finish this forced induction arena, I'll do the same for Heads/Cam Naturally aspirated too. There's also some transmission tuning in Dans book.

 

Sorry, had to put this on the end since there is a limit on how many images one can put in a single response.


Fuel Injector settings...
The values here *should* come from the manufacturers data sheet. Dan's settings in his case study for the Turbocharged Z28 are for some 60#'s. I am using Bosch 127#(@ 4bar/58psi) in my setup.

Setting up the fuel injector can be tricky. There are several tables to setup or at least, review.
Things to keep in mind before setting this:

• You really need the 'data sheet' for the injectors. This document, usually obtained with the purchase of new injectors, has all the vital information regarding flow rates, voltages, offsets, etc. When I bought my 127# Bosch injectors, I had to badger the seller for the data sheet. I'm not sure but it seems at times that the injector vendors and the professional tuning enterprises are in collusion and trying to prevent "Joe six pack" from tuning on his own. If you have a datasheet for any of the higher end injectors, send me a copy or a link and I'll portray it here. I will post my 127# data sheet settings too.
• There is a context of your Automatic Fuel Pressure Regulator of which you need to be aware. Note this... If you FPR is 'manifold referenced', meaning that how much fuel pressure varies based on vacuum or boost pressure, you'll set some tables differently that you would if the FPR was NOT manifold referenced. People using the Corvette filter/FPR setup have a NON-manifold pressure FPR. It just stays at a constant 58psi. If you have a vacuum line going from your intake to your FPR, then you have a manifold referenced FPR.
• Some of our HP Tuner editors are set up to use pounds, Fahrenheit, while others will use grams, Celsius and Kilograms. You can easily switch from one to the other and back by moving your mouse cursor up to the top menu bar, selecting “Tools” and then “Options”. “Imperial” will be Pounds, Fahrenheit and Metric will be Kilograms and Celsius. Additionally, there are various conversion utilities out there for going from one to another . The HP Tuners software has some built-in calculators(Up on the menu bar, click “Tools” and then “Calculator” or “Unit conversion”.

On the first tab of my FIC 1200cc (127#) datasheet (provided in Excel) it has this notation.
"**If you are using a FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR that is manifold referenced, please populate the ENTIRE table(s) with the FIRST column of data in RED. If you do not understand, please ask us."

Here is the "First column of data in RED" of which they refer. They are simply stating, If you have a "manifold referenced" FPR, take the value that is in red and paste it into every cell in the associated table instead of the discrete cell values that are in the rest of the table.



I will assume you all are familiar with the Excel 'highlight, copy, paste' functions so I can, for the sake of brevity, simply show the fuel injector setting tab/buttons/boxes, with each button notated with A, B, C.. etc and then my data sheet with the associated A, B, C .. etc. and you'll know that means the datasheets A, B, C goes into the boxes/tables in HP Tuners Fuel injector boxes/tables.










Power/Boost Enrichment...


















VE Table initial setup... This is how Dan initially configures the VE table for his project car in the book. The car is a 2002 Z28 LS1. Stock motor internals, but with 60# injectors and a free flowing exhaust. This car will be setup to only run about 9psi, presumably because of the stock internals. This would get most of us forced induction guys started on our tunes. It is a safe setup as Dan mentions, he's done this particular setup tune many times, knowing the limitations of such a engine configuration. Using a wide band on HPTuner Pro and integrating it into the Histogram(This is basically a log, but a specific log of AFR with X and Y axis of MAP KPA vs RPM), you can not only see where your fueling is lean/rich, but programmatically apply the correction to your flash with a 'cut n paste' click of a couple of buttons! I will delve into the integration of the Histogram later. I still want to portray spark setup before going to 'fine tuning'.













You may notice a screen shot change. My trusty Gateway that has served me faithfully since 2006 is getting chkdsk errors every day. I had to get a new laptop with Win7.
Dan's final VE setup for 9psi, still leaving 175% above that to be intentionally rich in the event that customer had boost creep, etc...


And here, I've taken Dans final settings and interpolated (Just as a further example of the interpolation function) the 140 to 210 KPA range...

 

Question, I have Hpt standard version my buddy let me use, is it worth it to spend $600 and buy the pro version new opposed to using this one for free? (Maybe have to buy a credit or 2). I know the pro allows me to log with a wideband but can I just use my o2's to log afr?

 

you can log wideband though an unused PID like egr with the std. HPT cable.
I found it was tricky to get it to read and log accurately (using an LM2 WBO2) and just ponied up the money for a pro and an AEM uego. YMMV.

Kudos OP! you have done your homework.
Subscribed.

 

I wish we could use the stock O2's but the stock narrow band O2's are said to be wildly inaccurate away from stoich(14.62857). You *can* use your friends HP Standard to set most things up provided you have the 'credits' but when it comes to being accurate and safe, the Wide band is something you really need. As others have said, there may be some tricks to integrate the WB onto another sensor and do a translation on the voltages, etc.

I faced the same dilemma when I was agonizing over whether to buy a used HP or EFI live setup vs taking the plunge on a new one. After talking with a few would be sellers and exchanging emails/PM's, it just seemed the less troublesome road was to buy new and get the Pro.

Will your engine be N/A (Naturally Aspirated) or forced induction? If N/A, perhaps you'd be okay with using your buddies HPTuner and, cautiously, sneaking up to peak performance via fuel/spark. If Forced Induction, I would not chance tuning without the guiding hand of the Wide Band.