Supercharger vs Turbo.... OFFICIAL ARGUMENT THREAD.
07-24-2016, 02:09 PM
#341
Originally Posted by gsteele
Seemed to work pretty well in this application.
"Try, for a moment, to comprehend a four-cylinder engine capable of achieving 4,000 hp at 55 psi turbo boost on nitromethane."
http://www.superstreetonline.com/how...nycar-integra/
"Try, for a moment, to comprehend a four-cylinder engine capable of achieving 4,000 hp at 55 psi turbo boost on nitromethane."
http://www.superstreetonline.com/how...nycar-integra/
07-24-2016, 02:29 PM
#342
From a chemistry and physics standpoint, there is a big difference between combustion and an explosion. Combustion is the energy release from kicking hydrogen atoms off carbon, while nitro methane is a completely different beast of a chemical reaction.
I didn't say a turbo can't be done, I just wondered what it would take to get it to survive.
I didn't say a turbo can't be done, I just wondered what it would take to get it to survive.
07-24-2016, 03:46 PM
#343
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07-25-2016, 09:12 AM
#345
Inconel holds up to rocket engines and other such nonsense which is also what some valves and turbines are made from. Inconel valves are rated to 2000+ degrees and survive the heat in the chamber so the turbo down range should be fine, granted they would both need to be replaced at regular intervals. Guys that race with Prochargers often need to bring three head units to a race so same difference really, everything needs maintenance when stressed.
07-25-2016, 10:45 AM
#347
07-25-2016, 11:51 AM
#348
The KC rotary guys come down to our local import races and clean house with their nitro burning turbo cars every year. They don't seem to have any issues with turbos exploding...
Sitting next to them idling in the staging lanes is pretty nutty with the nitro concussion waves blasting into you.
Sitting next to them idling in the staging lanes is pretty nutty with the nitro concussion waves blasting into you.
07-25-2016, 02:35 PM
#349
I'm sorry, I know nothing about chemicals... I step aside to your superior knowledge base.
I clearly stated that I wondered what it would take for a turbo to survive the torture of nitro exhaust since the velocity and heat is far greater than that of gasoline especially when you are dumping so much fuel into it, and top fuel cars routinely 'lose' cylinders and pump raw nitro into the air.... It was a legitimate curiosity on my part.
Fact is, nitromethane isn't even the most explosive stuff they've played with in combustion engines in search for more power.
I clearly stated that I wondered what it would take for a turbo to survive the torture of nitro exhaust since the velocity and heat is far greater than that of gasoline especially when you are dumping so much fuel into it, and top fuel cars routinely 'lose' cylinders and pump raw nitro into the air.... It was a legitimate curiosity on my part.
Fact is, nitromethane isn't even the most explosive stuff they've played with in combustion engines in search for more power.
07-27-2016, 02:54 AM
#354
I have to add (cause all this stupid belt issue talk), 90% of the time when people are having belt issues it is not due to some inherent design flaw but rather the installer not knowing how or not being thorough enough to get everything installed properly. Each blower requires its own set up or combination of pulleys, belts and brackets to work properly. For example, you are not gonna want to run an F2 at max speed with a 6 rib belt and a factory tensioner.
Those that are committed to the centri game will tell you that there is a learning curve when pursuing a good belt set up that is reliable and able to drive the blower to desired rpm. Once you have the correct combination of parts, pulleys, belts and brackets and the know how to get it all installed properly, blower combos can be very reliable and make great power (typically in a much simpler configuration compared to getting a good turbo system laid out and plumbed).
It's really a shame that over all this time centri blower set ups have gotten such a bad wrap due to this. You basically have people just regurgitating what they read on the internet without ever having actually installed one themselves.
Just my .02.
Those that are committed to the centri game will tell you that there is a learning curve when pursuing a good belt set up that is reliable and able to drive the blower to desired rpm. Once you have the correct combination of parts, pulleys, belts and brackets and the know how to get it all installed properly, blower combos can be very reliable and make great power (typically in a much simpler configuration compared to getting a good turbo system laid out and plumbed).
It's really a shame that over all this time centri blower set ups have gotten such a bad wrap due to this. You basically have people just regurgitating what they read on the internet without ever having actually installed one themselves.
Just my .02.
Last edited by Blown06; 07-27-2016 at 03:01 AM.
07-27-2016, 05:33 AM
#355
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I feel I have to qualify my statement, I have nothing against blowers, I run several. However, living in South Africa means that every single(non-standard) system has to be developed by us in house. You are right when you say there is a steep learning curve with regards to setting up pulley systems for max wrap and performance. That is exactly the reason why I prefer turbos. Once you have the system configured (yes it takes a bit more effort), you can forget and enjoy. But no denying the joys of blowers, my LQ4, LSA combo is blast and about the cheapest power you can make__ until the belt slips and your boost deserts you.
07-27-2016, 08:13 AM
#356
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Pun intended?
I had a CF supercharger on my 2.8L inline 6 cylinder. The gearing of the unit (it was from http://www.asa-kompressor.com/home/) made it such that the pulley diameter was somewhere in the realm of 6 - 6.5" OD (because there is a clutch that engages based on RPM). 6-rib, driven off of primary serpentine belt. Upgraded tensioner and manual tensioner added and still had belt slip from time to time. It's just the nature of belts unfortunately. If I tensioned the hell out of it then it wouldn't slip but the tension was insane and I worried about the bearing/shaft.
If I did it all again, since it was a custom setup, I'd setup another pulley on front of the engine and use a cogged belt. Has its own issues, but slip won't be one of them. I decided to move to a turbocharger, however.
07-27-2016, 09:35 AM
#357
I have to add (cause all this stupid belt issue talk), 90% of the time when people are having belt issues it is not due to some inherent design flaw but rather the installer not knowing how or not being thorough enough to get everything installed properly. Each blower requires its own set up or combination of pulleys, belts and brackets to work properly. For example, you are not gonna want to run an F2 at max speed with a 6 rib belt and a factory tensioner.
Those that are committed to the centri game will tell you that there is a learning curve when pursuing a good belt set up that is reliable and able to drive the blower to desired rpm. Once you have the correct combination of parts, pulleys, belts and brackets and the know how to get it all installed properly, blower combos can be very reliable and make great power (typically in a much simpler configuration compared to getting a good turbo system laid out and plumbed).
It's really a shame that over all this time centri blower set ups have gotten such a bad wrap due to this. You basically have people just regurgitating what they read on the internet without ever having actually installed one themselves.
Just my .02.
Those that are committed to the centri game will tell you that there is a learning curve when pursuing a good belt set up that is reliable and able to drive the blower to desired rpm. Once you have the correct combination of parts, pulleys, belts and brackets and the know how to get it all installed properly, blower combos can be very reliable and make great power (typically in a much simpler configuration compared to getting a good turbo system laid out and plumbed).
It's really a shame that over all this time centri blower set ups have gotten such a bad wrap due to this. You basically have people just regurgitating what they read on the internet without ever having actually installed one themselves.
Just my .02.
The only 2 belts I have ever shredded in the 10 years I've owned my Procharger was MY FAULT. Now that I know what I'm doing and what to look for when changing pulleys or pulling the combo apart and reinstalling it, I don't ever have belt problems. Going on 3 years with the current belt in the car.
07-27-2016, 03:29 PM
#358
I'm sorry, I know nothing about chemicals... I step aside to your superior knowledge base.
I clearly stated that I wondered what it would take for a turbo to survive the torture of nitro exhaust since the velocity and heat is far greater than that of gasoline especially when you are dumping so much fuel into it, and top fuel cars routinely 'lose' cylinders and pump raw nitro into the air.... It was a legitimate curiosity on my part.
Fact is, nitromethane isn't even the most explosive stuff they've played with in combustion engines in search for more power.
I clearly stated that I wondered what it would take for a turbo to survive the torture of nitro exhaust since the velocity and heat is far greater than that of gasoline especially when you are dumping so much fuel into it, and top fuel cars routinely 'lose' cylinders and pump raw nitro into the air.... It was a legitimate curiosity on my part.
Fact is, nitromethane isn't even the most explosive stuff they've played with in combustion engines in search for more power.
07-28-2016, 06:08 AM
#359
You are correct, that would be the best indicator. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find that information. I know nitro burns hotter than gasoline, and the amount of nitro burned is far greater than gasoline, hence the amount of power (heat) generated is far greater.
Again, I'd love to read about the logistics involved in getting a turbo to survive in a nitro environment. I read the article above about the 4-cylinder nitro turbo motor, but they didn't say much about the logistics of the turbo. I guess it's not an issue.
Again, I'd love to read about the logistics involved in getting a turbo to survive in a nitro environment. I read the article above about the 4-cylinder nitro turbo motor, but they didn't say much about the logistics of the turbo. I guess it's not an issue.