What made you switch from procharger to turbo?
06-04-2017, 09:13 PM
#23
Teching In
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: LaGrange NC
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe you should consider a whipple for an option too. If you go with a 4 or 4.5 liter you could use the manifold and the Intercooler with a turbo setup later making the swap a little easier without changing Intercooler and exchanger configuration. Just remove the blower and sell it to help with conversion cost. CBM makes a nice billet upper manifold cover that replaces the blower and allows for turbo installation. Have you seen the torque curves that a ls whipple charged engine produces? Very impressive imo.
06-04-2017, 09:19 PM
#24
Thank you for sharing your experience. Do you think if your goal was 700 rwhp and you stayed at that or below you wouldn't have had to deal with many of those issues? It seems common that at higher levels the issues that arise with a procharger are what push people towards a turbo.
Really what is most important to me are track times. I'd like to run very low 10's to high 9's with the car or 6.5x or better in the 1/8th where I mostly play. I know a lot goes into that and GTO's don't seem to run the expected ET's for their power level. I think 700 rwhp would be enough power if the rest of the combo is working well.
Really what is most important to me are track times. I'd like to run very low 10's to high 9's with the car or 6.5x or better in the 1/8th where I mostly play. I know a lot goes into that and GTO's don't seem to run the expected ET's for their power level. I think 700 rwhp would be enough power if the rest of the combo is working well.
Just for reference, I ran around on a pretty conservative tune. I lifted the heads on my setup, but I still decided to try to retorque the heads to give it a go at the track. I drove about an hour to the track, ran 3 passes (all pushed water), and drove it home. 9.7x @ 145mph with a pretty slow 1.6 60'. The car was in full trim, which is roughly 3,800-3,900 lbs. Not too shabby in my opinion. When I was at 760 rwhp, the car with 10.14 @144mph with a manual, and I can't shift a manual quick to save my life, hence the auto swap lol.
This. I am already getting excited about my turbo setup. I started mocking up the hotside this afternoon.
06-05-2017, 12:48 AM
#25
The idle streetsweeper whoosh got quite old, along with the squeeling straight cut gears. All the noise was cool at first and definitely turned heads, but eventually got old. Sounds ridiculous idling along in the neighborhood sounding like a jet engine. PD blowers and turbod sound nice when your getting into it, rather than when your putting around or sitting at a stoplight.
06-05-2017, 03:50 AM
#26
10 Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Yes, I believe even up to 850ish would be fine in an auto. What was killing the belts on my manual car was between shifts. You have to imagine the momentum in the impeller and drive system when you are changing 2-3k rpms almost instantly. That is a ton of mass to slow down and speed back up. As noted before, when I went to an auto, this was pretty much a non-issue.
Just for reference, I ran around on a pretty conservative tune. I lifted the heads on my setup, but I still decided to try to retorque the heads to give it a go at the track. I drove about an hour to the track, ran 3 passes (all pushed water), and drove it home. 9.7x @ 145mph with a pretty slow 1.6 60'. The car was in full trim, which is roughly 3,800-3,900 lbs. Not too shabby in my opinion. When I was at 760 rwhp, the car with 10.14 @144mph with a manual, and I can't shift a manual quick to save my life, hence the auto swap lol.
This. I am already getting excited about my turbo setup. I started mocking up the hotside this afternoon.
Just for reference, I ran around on a pretty conservative tune. I lifted the heads on my setup, but I still decided to try to retorque the heads to give it a go at the track. I drove about an hour to the track, ran 3 passes (all pushed water), and drove it home. 9.7x @ 145mph with a pretty slow 1.6 60'. The car was in full trim, which is roughly 3,800-3,900 lbs. Not too shabby in my opinion. When I was at 760 rwhp, the car with 10.14 @144mph with a manual, and I can't shift a manual quick to save my life, hence the auto swap lol.
This. I am already getting excited about my turbo setup. I started mocking up the hotside this afternoon.
Here is the last time slip I got with my previous GTO. I already have the same basic suspension and wheels/tires installed on my new GTO that I had on my previous one that I sold 10 years ago when I ran these times. Only I went with a different style of Bogart wheels this time. I melted a piston on this pass so my mph was down a bit. I usually trapped near 135 mph. I'm on the right side. This was rolling into the throttle and not getting into the nitrous until about 60'.
Here is a video of that car. The 60' looks really lazy, but was still in the 1.6x range on this pass.
I figured it would take more rwhp in a supercharged car to run the times I want than in a nitrous car. I dynoed 632 rwhp to run that time slip. That is why I'm shooting for 700ish with boost to hopefully run the same or slightly better times.
06-05-2017, 11:13 AM
#27
I guess the newness hasn't worn off for me yet. I went the other way....used to have a turbo car and now have a D1SC car and i freaking love it. Pull up to a stoplight with the cut out open and the blower whistling is hilarious to me watching people look around trying to figure out what the heck is going on.
Some blower positives for me:
I dont have to worry about whether or not my $400 china turbo is going to explode on any random day and either trying to take out my motor or provide an oil slick for my tires.
I don't have to deal with a crazy routed hot side kit that may or may not melt stuff in the engine bay unless I spend time/money wrapping everything.
No turbo sitting in front of my accessories/crank pulley so I can actual maneuver around underneath the car.
No oil lines, period.
Lack of adjustable boost doesn't bother me, but could be easily solved with a wastegated setup, but everyone seems to ignore that.
Hardest thing for me was getting everything aligned.
Some blower positives for me:
I dont have to worry about whether or not my $400 china turbo is going to explode on any random day and either trying to take out my motor or provide an oil slick for my tires.
I don't have to deal with a crazy routed hot side kit that may or may not melt stuff in the engine bay unless I spend time/money wrapping everything.
No turbo sitting in front of my accessories/crank pulley so I can actual maneuver around underneath the car.
No oil lines, period.
Lack of adjustable boost doesn't bother me, but could be easily solved with a wastegated setup, but everyone seems to ignore that.
Hardest thing for me was getting everything aligned.
06-05-2017, 12:08 PM
#29
I guess the newness hasn't worn off for me yet. I went the other way....used to have a turbo car and now have a D1SC car and i freaking love it. Pull up to a stoplight with the cut out open and the blower whistling is hilarious to me watching people look around trying to figure out what the heck is going on.
Some blower positives for me:
I dont have to worry about whether or not my $400 china turbo is going to explode on any random day and either trying to take out my motor or provide an oil slick for my tires.
I don't have to deal with a crazy routed hot side kit that may or may not melt stuff in the engine bay unless I spend time/money wrapping everything.
No turbo sitting in front of my accessories/crank pulley so I can actual maneuver around underneath the car.
No oil lines, period.
Lack of adjustable boost doesn't bother me, but could be easily solved with a wastegated setup, but everyone seems to ignore that.
Hardest thing for me was getting everything aligned.
Some blower positives for me:
I dont have to worry about whether or not my $400 china turbo is going to explode on any random day and either trying to take out my motor or provide an oil slick for my tires.
I don't have to deal with a crazy routed hot side kit that may or may not melt stuff in the engine bay unless I spend time/money wrapping everything.
No turbo sitting in front of my accessories/crank pulley so I can actual maneuver around underneath the car.
No oil lines, period.
Lack of adjustable boost doesn't bother me, but could be easily solved with a wastegated setup, but everyone seems to ignore that.
Hardest thing for me was getting everything aligned.
06-05-2017, 12:56 PM
#32
Not that this is the definitive answer/guide, but go binge watch 1320 video and compare the number of turbo cars to procharged cars. And then, take that limited number of procharged cars.... and look at what nearly always happens to them when they decide to jump out the window on a turbo car.
06-05-2017, 01:53 PM
#33
I still remember the first time I dropped the hammer on the freeway with a medium power turbo car (820rwhp). At first it scared me, so I got out of it just as it spooled up good..... once I quit laughing and shaking, I downshifted and rolled into it. Been an addict ever since.
The following users liked this post:
53te39 (12-22-2020)
06-05-2017, 03:08 PM
#34
10 Second Club
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Not that this is the definitive answer/guide, but go binge watch 1320 video and compare the number of turbo cars to procharged cars. And then, take that limited number of procharged cars.... and look at what nearly always happens to them when they decide to jump out the window on a turbo car.
Despite many of the issues people have mentioned in this thread I still think the procharger is the way to go for my goals.
500 rwhp or so on stock bottom end for a year or until it breaks which ever comes first. Then 700 rwhp with a forged 347 or forged 6.0 aluminum block. I'm not going to gut the car, but I don't want to add any more weight than I have to. With my goal of 700 rwhp I think an aluminum block will be fine.
I really like the TVS2300, but I think they have way more issues at the 700 rwhp level than a procharger.
I don't like the sound of the bigger prochargers, but I should be able to achieve 700 rwhp through the auto with a D1x with helical gear set.
It seems like the belt slip issues could be resolved with a bigger crank pulley and 8 or 10 rib setup at the power level I'm looking for. Is switching to a 10 rib setup as simple as changing pulleys on the crank and blower and getting the correct belt or is it more involved than that?
I'm thinking 93 plus meth for fuel. E85 is readily available here, but there are some issues with inconsistency and I don't think it will be needed for my goals.
Any other advice? I want to have a solid plan by November and get started over the winter. I still have to build the drivetrain before then. I'd like to be ready for 700 rwhp from the trans back before I put the blower on even at low boost.
How does the waste gate setup with a procharger work? Wouldn't you still be spinning the blower for your max boost all the time and just "wasting" the unwanted boost?
06-05-2017, 03:31 PM
#37
Its "couldn't care less". And he's probably talking about people buying ctsv's and ripping the blower off in favor of a turbo.
06-05-2017, 04:06 PM
#38
Indeed I am... I had an LSA and it wasn't anything impressive. Granted if you spend thousands on getting it ported, spray bars, overdrive pulleys, etc then it can almost make what a 76mm turbo does out of the box.
06-05-2017, 04:31 PM
#39
Turbo takes a little more to setup, but after that they are reliable from my experience. Over 3 years with my huron speed kit and the only trouble I had was I blew out the hotside gasket because my bolts came loose. Car still drove fine, just an exhaust leak. Put lock washers on the bolts and never had any problems since..
Also the only motor I ever F'd up was shortly after I installed my procharger kit on my first ls z28 it probably had 300 miles on it on low boost and I spun the #1 rod bearing... I don't know if it had to do with tension being on the front hub or not, but it was weird to me as soon as I put the blower on I spin the #1 rod bearing..
I'm sure you would be happy with either though...
Also the only motor I ever F'd up was shortly after I installed my procharger kit on my first ls z28 it probably had 300 miles on it on low boost and I spun the #1 rod bearing... I don't know if it had to do with tension being on the front hub or not, but it was weird to me as soon as I put the blower on I spin the #1 rod bearing..
I'm sure you would be happy with either though...
06-05-2017, 05:22 PM
#40
9 Second Club
LOL...I watch 1320 videos all the time. I live in small town Iowa there is no roll racing scene here. There are no 6 or 8 lane freeways in my home town to even do that kind of thing on even if we wanted to.
Despite many of the issues people have mentioned in this thread I still think the procharger is the way to go for my goals.
500 rwhp or so on stock bottom end for a year or until it breaks which ever comes first. Then 700 rwhp with a forged 347 or forged 6.0 aluminum block. I'm not going to gut the car, but I don't want to add any more weight than I have to. With my goal of 700 rwhp I think an aluminum block will be fine.
I really like the TVS2300, but I think they have way more issues at the 700 rwhp level than a procharger.
I don't like the sound of the bigger prochargers, but I should be able to achieve 700 rwhp through the auto with a D1x with helical gear set.
It seems like the belt slip issues could be resolved with a bigger crank pulley and 8 or 10 rib setup at the power level I'm looking for. Is switching to a 10 rib setup as simple as changing pulleys on the crank and blower and getting the correct belt or is it more involved than that?
I'm thinking 93 plus meth for fuel. E85 is readily available here, but there are some issues with inconsistency and I don't think it will be needed for my goals.
Any other advice? I want to have a solid plan by November and get started over the winter. I still have to build the drivetrain before then. I'd like to be ready for 700 rwhp from the trans back before I put the blower on even at low boost.
How does the waste gate setup with a procharger work? Wouldn't you still be spinning the blower for your max boost all the time and just "wasting" the unwanted boost?
Despite many of the issues people have mentioned in this thread I still think the procharger is the way to go for my goals.
500 rwhp or so on stock bottom end for a year or until it breaks which ever comes first. Then 700 rwhp with a forged 347 or forged 6.0 aluminum block. I'm not going to gut the car, but I don't want to add any more weight than I have to. With my goal of 700 rwhp I think an aluminum block will be fine.
I really like the TVS2300, but I think they have way more issues at the 700 rwhp level than a procharger.
I don't like the sound of the bigger prochargers, but I should be able to achieve 700 rwhp through the auto with a D1x with helical gear set.
It seems like the belt slip issues could be resolved with a bigger crank pulley and 8 or 10 rib setup at the power level I'm looking for. Is switching to a 10 rib setup as simple as changing pulleys on the crank and blower and getting the correct belt or is it more involved than that?
I'm thinking 93 plus meth for fuel. E85 is readily available here, but there are some issues with inconsistency and I don't think it will be needed for my goals.
Any other advice? I want to have a solid plan by November and get started over the winter. I still have to build the drivetrain before then. I'd like to be ready for 700 rwhp from the trans back before I put the blower on even at low boost.
How does the waste gate setup with a procharger work? Wouldn't you still be spinning the blower for your max boost all the time and just "wasting" the unwanted boost?
Suggestions of a 4.0 whipple for 700hp ? What ******* planet is that person on ?
Turbos could be an option..but as you already know, there are very very few turbo kits out there for that car. But there are simple bolt on blower kits.
How well proven is that UPP kit ? At the price...are the turbos Chinese ? Access for plugs etc looks a feckin nightmare.
TVS is an option too..but probably at it's limit at your goal.. A Centri is just simple. Easy to bolt on, you can have a good efficient intercooler and they just work. Of course depends how solid that number is...or if you're just happy that it performs well. Numbers dont always mean much.
But as said...I'd probably prefer to aim for a Gen5 type kit, as opposed to anything GTO specific as I dont believe the base kits for that platform are very good....or at least not as good as the Gen5 stuff. But it will have the added expense of changing other parts.
The Procharger bracket for the GTO...just looks as if it would be flimsy
CAPA's Aussie Vortech kit was simple, but the lack of a spring tensioner is a huge compromise, although I think they might offer one now. Not sure of Vortech USA themselves offer a kit for those cars ?
But with a Vortech it gives you the option of a YSi, which is a superb blower.
Of course you could go down the road of a custom turbo kit....but then you're into huge money. Is it really worth it ?