BCNUL8R

iTrader: (2)

I'm considering going the procharger route on my GTO over this fall/winter. I've done a bunch of reading on the subject and it seems common for people that start out with a procharger to eventually end up switching to a turbo. I'm curious about some of the reasons for this.

jrtoffroad

Maybe they like lag?

-More power at a given boost level
-Better fuel economy
-Great drivability
-Reasonably priced turbos available in a huge array of sizes (with proper compressor maps available, something that seems hard to get for centrifugal chargers)
-...


With that said, I LOVE my F1R and have no plans of getting rid of it any time soon. Unless of course to get an F1X

Game ova

Was sick of going slow, so I got rid of the pro charger.... haven't looked back since the swap. Just kidding...... but yea.... this is thread is really going to stir the pot.

sweet99ss

iTrader: (41)

Turbo's

-sound better
-make unlimited power without belt slip
-can add 200hp from a turn of a ****

Procharger is for a clean car you don't want to modify much IMO. If you want to go fast you will go turbo

BCNUL8R

iTrader: (2)

I'm not looking to stir the pot. I just want to make the best decision for my goals. In my research it just looks like a common progression is to go from a procharger to a turbo so I'm curious about some of the reasons.

I've owned my GTO about 3 months now. I've only added a 228r cam, headers, 3200 yank ss, rear suspension mods, and bogart 15 wheels w/mickey Thompson drag radials so far. It already had a Magnaflow catback when I bought it. It has 28,xxx miles on it now.

I'd like to add boost and build the drivetrain to handle it over this next winter. My power goal is 500ish rwhp on the stock bottom end and then the next winter add a forged bottom end most likely a 347 and add more boost to get to around 700ish rwhp.

From my research it seems like much above 700ish rwhp the cost to maintain jumps up considerably so I've set my goals there. Several years down the road who knows, but for now that should be plenty.

I'd like to stick with the IRS suspension, but put good parts in it to handle the power. I'd also like to stick with the 4l60e, but built to level 6 by FLT or someone reputable. I've had one of their transmissions in my previous car and was very happy with it at 632 rwhp with a 408 and nitrous.

I'm not the type that likes to constantly work on a car. At the same time I understand it's part of the hobby so I'm willing to do what is necessary to play in this hobby. I notice some people like working on cars more than driving them it seems...LOL...I'm not one of those people.

The car is a weekend toy and will be drag raced at least a few trips a year.

For my power levels either a procharger or turbo will easily achieve those goals. For the procharger I'm specifically looking at the new D1X blower because it can reach my goals and also is available with the helical gear set. I'm not a big fan of the sound of a supercharger, but it's not a deal breaker for me either. For the turbo I found this kit from UPP. I don't know much about them, but there aren't many turbo options available for the GTO that I'm aware of most people fabricate a system.

http://uppturbo.com/parts/upp-05-06-gto-twin-turbo-kit/

edit to add: The one thing that does really appeal to me about a turbo is the ability to easily run low boost playing around on the street then turn it up for the track.

331camaro

iTrader: (1)

The deciding factor for me was the belt drives, for a max effort set up youl need to cog it and that is alot of stress on the crank. Theres a few pictures floating around of the snouts being broken off callies cranks. Seeing that was enough for me

BCNUL8R

iTrader: (2)

A 700 rwhp goal is far from max effort.

331camaro

iTrader: (1)

True, but it wont be long until you want more...

sweet99ss

iTrader: (41)

A huge factor is how good the procharger kit is for gto's. Imo they are trash for f-body's. I would never put another procharger kit on an f-body. On the other hand I loved my procharger kit on both of my vette's and wouldn't hesitate to put another and go for 500-650rwhp. Any more power then that and I would go turbo.

BCNUL8R

iTrader: (2)

Of course...

So that is really the big factor why most make that switch? Power level...at lower power levels the procharger is a pretty "easy" way to get up to 700 rwhp or so in a completely streetable car without major issue, but after that is where the issues start to pop up?

I figure do the fuel system, rear, and trans good enough to handle the long term goal of 700 rwhp. That way when I'm ready with a forged motor and up the boost I'm ready for it.

stevieturbo

You state a 700hp goal....IMO that's a no brainer for a supercharger, but yes they will all make more noise than a turbo setup.

BCNUL8R

iTrader: (2)

That was the plan from the beginning. It was just during my research to learn as much as I could I found a lot of people that are turbo started down their boost journey with a procharger. I wanted to see why that was and it appears it's mostly an issue of once you start pushing the limits with a supercharger issues start to pop up.

We always want more, but my desire to keep a 4l60e and IRS rear suspension is a big reason for the 700 rwhp limit. Several years down the road who knows, but for now I'm not wanting to get into the cost of going beyond a built 4l60E and an IRS with good parts in it. I'm also limited on blower size if I'd like to run a little while on stock bottom end. So I figured the new D1X would be perfect and still be able to make 700 rwhp when I'm ready for that.

stevieturbo

If it's a daily or regularly used, 700hp is a nice goal. The D1 will still leave some room to grow after that.

But you could fit many blowers despite the stock motor, just pulley them down.

Another option would be if you swapped to a Gen5 type front accessory drive, you could probably use one of their blower kits, which would open up a much larger market for off the shelf parts, but with a higher initial cost

Not sure how good or bad Prochargers kits for a GTO actually are, there dont seem to be huge numbers of them out there ?

Whatever kit, for for as many ribs as possible, dedicated blower belt drive, not shared and a good strong spring tensioner and it should give good reliable service.

1500HP

iTrader: (1)

Both Turbo and centrifugal super charger will achieve the same Goal ,
Just that Turbo are definitely easer on the motor , mainly the crank any
Centrifugal stress the crank just my opionion look at all these junk yard
Turbo 5.3s rolling no way u hang a blower of the crank and it will never l last in my opinion

RacerBill

iTrader: (20)

I just removed and sold my F1A after having it since 2010.

Cons:

* I get bored easily and wanted to change things up... I kept saying I was going to remove it for years now, but I have been busy with life.

* Belt slip... Oh my freaking goodnees. Belt slip. I designed and purchased a custom set of pulleys, which helped a TON, but as I went for more and more power and RPMs, it still plagued me. The original build was 760hp/710tq then it progressed to 870hp/720tq. I even turned it up a little after that. It would have been a non-issue at a lower power setting and in an auto. I found that even at the higher power setting, swapping to an auto helped tremendously with the slip.

* Kind of tied to belt slip - I kept the belt super tight to help fight belt slip, and it always left me feeling weird with such a high load on the crank snout. I had to tighten to the point, where the J-bracket started to move.

* The sound. I absolutely LOVED the sound it made and the attention it attracted when I first put the PC on. That feeling wore off after a while, and it became quite cumbersome to have to wear ear plugs any time I had to do work under the hood with the engine running. The race valve definitely added to the experience, but when cruising on the highway, it got old very quickly. I drove this car all over the central/east states.

* Cost for maintenance and "proprietary" components. I was able to rebuild the head unit myself, but prior to finding the correct bearings and seals elsewhere, I was going to be in for almost $1k for a rebuild. Afterwards, I felt confident not having to run other recommended oils without having to run the expensive PC specific oil, although I still had some laying around.

* Did I mention belt slip?

* Inability to adjust power level on the fly.

* Factory piping and fan shroud sucks. I ended up making a majority of the piping myself and also paid a fabricator to do some of the work. I had nearly $2k in just those modification alone; parts, labor, supporting components, etc.

Pros:

* Power profile. I hope I am able to get my turbo setup to have a similar profile.

* Relatively simple installation.

* Reliable at lower power levels.

BCNUL8R

iTrader: (2)

Thank you for sharing your experience. Do you think if your goal was 700 rwhp and you stayed at that or below you wouldn't have had to deal with many of those issues? It seems common that at higher levels the issues that arise with a procharger are what push people towards a turbo.

Really what is most important to me are track times. I'd like to run very low 10's to high 9's with the car or 6.5x or better in the 1/8th where I mostly play. I know a lot goes into that and GTO's don't seem to run the expected ET's for their power level. I think 700 rwhp would be enough power if the rest of the combo is working well.

stevieturbo

At only 700hp, belt slip shouldnt be even the slightest bit of an issue with a good setup

recent thread on the GTO Forum

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=818537


I had a YSi for years, and yes I too had issues with belts etc. But it was largely all down to the shitty CAPA kit and fixed tensioner that I had based it around ( Monaro fitment )
After many configurations I eventually added a good spring tensioner to it, and voila all issues were sorted. But I'd already decided I wanted more power and quieter power by that stage hence I went turbo.

If you look at the Gen5 kits, and I prefer the tensioner setup from ECS you can see blower placement is very akin to the GTO/Monaro, perhaps even giving more clearance as the blower is very close to the engine.
But you would need the Gen5 alternator/PAS/Crank pulley arrangement for it.


But Vortech, Paxton, Procharger and any resellers all offer kits for a wide range of head units for this vehicle...which is handy and their bracket systems look to be nice and sturdy. All of that is good !

lmt0705

iTrader: (7)

Belt slip, awful customer service and outrageous repair prices from procharger, lack of power compared to turbos is why I switched. Yes turbo systems are considerably more complicated and big turbos can have a little lag but I'm very happy I made the switch

BCNUL8R

iTrader: (2)

You guys are doing a good job of talking me out of a procharger!

Game ova

Procharger whine is cool....... for about 10 minutes. Turbo spool up......NEVER gets old.