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It also contributes to wearing out the headunit and increased IAT.
A) Obviously B) I'm aware
Indeed I am... I had an LSA and it wasn't anything impressive. Granted if you spend thousands on getting it ported, spray bars, overdrive pulleys, etc then it can almost make what a 76mm turbo does out of the box.
The V would be a real DD.....not a "street car". No need to go crazy on a DD. Intake, exhaust, and a pulley and comfortably make 600rwhp.
Just ignore all the bullshit in this thread and go with the centri. With the right kit it will make your power goals and be very reliable and you will enjoy it.
Suggestions of a 4.0 whipple for 700hp ? What ******* planet is that person on ?
Turbos could be an option..but as you already know, there are very very few turbo kits out there for that car. But there are simple bolt on blower kits.
How well proven is that UPP kit ? At the price...are the turbos Chinese ? Access for plugs etc looks a feckin nightmare.
TVS is an option too..but probably at it's limit at your goal.. A Centri is just simple. Easy to bolt on, you can have a good efficient intercooler and they just work. Of course depends how solid that number is...or if you're just happy that it performs well. Numbers dont always mean much.
But as said...I'd probably prefer to aim for a Gen5 type kit, as opposed to anything GTO specific as I dont believe the base kits for that platform are very good....or at least not as good as the Gen5 stuff. But it will have the added expense of changing other parts.
The Procharger bracket for the GTO...just looks as if it would be flimsy
CAPA's Aussie Vortech kit was simple, but the lack of a spring tensioner is a huge compromise, although I think they might offer one now. Not sure of Vortech USA themselves offer a kit for those cars ?
But with a Vortech it gives you the option of a YSi, which is a superb blower.
Of course you could go down the road of a custom turbo kit....but then you're into huge money. Is it really worth it ?
Because of cost I'm not interested in switching to a Gen5 type kit or a custom turbo. I need a kit made for the GTO that can get me to 700 rwhp. That number isn't set in stone the more important number is 9.8 to 10.2 in the 1/4 mile. I ran low 10's with a previous GTO with nitrous so I figure I'd need a little more power with a supercharger to run similar times. I think the lower to mid rpm torque of a small cubic inch motor and a procharger in a heavy car isn't going to ET as well with equal rwhp as my 408 w/150 shot did.
Just some rough numbers I'm thinking $9000 for the blower kit, $3500 for built 4l60e, $3500 for driveshaft, half shafts, stubs, and built factory rear end. I'd like to keep the total close to $20g. That would get me going then build a forged shortblock based upon budget later on, but most likely a small cubic inch motor to keep using stock heads, intake, throttle body and up the boost at that time.
If my plan is way off for my budget feel free to point me in the right direction.
Because of cost I'm not interested in switching to a Gen5 type kit or a custom turbo. I need a kit made for the GTO that can get me to 700 rwhp. That number isn't set in stone the more important number is 9.8 to 10.2 in the 1/4 mile. I ran low 10's with a previous GTO with nitrous so I figure I'd need a little more power with a supercharger to run similar times. I think the lower to mid rpm torque of a small cubic inch motor and a procharger in a heavy car isn't going to ET as well with equal rwhp as my 408 w/150 shot did.
Just some rough numbers I'm thinking $9000 for the blower kit, $3500 for built 4l60e, $3500 for driveshaft, half shafts, stubs, and built factory rear end. I'd like to keep the total close to $20g. That would get me going then build a forged shortblock based upon budget later on, but most likely a small cubic inch motor to keep using stock heads, intake, throttle body and up the boost at that time.
If my plan is way off for my budget feel free to point me in the right direction.
if I were you, I wouldn't even let a 4L60e get close to my car....let alone find it's way into my transmission tunnel. I understand that you said "built". But hop on over thin the transmission section, and just look at the first page.
9k for a d1sc kit? I pieced one together for like 3k with a big front mount intercooler.. I have had great success with built 4l60e's, but if I was to do it again I would get a built 4l80e from RPM transmissions or Jakes with a trans brake... Don't forget about fuel setup. You will need a 340 LPH pump at minimum with mininum deka 60lb injectors...
9k for a d1sc kit? I pieced one together for like 3k with a big front mount intercooler.. I have had great success with built 4l60e's, but if I was to do it again I would get a built 4l80e from RPM transmissions or Jakes with a trans brake... Don't forget about fuel setup. You will need a 340 LPH pump at minimum with mininum deka 60lb injectors...
I'm not going to piece together a kit I want new stuff and I like to estimate high because projects rarely come in under budget. There will surely be some add on things like 8 or 10 rib setup etc. to get the most out of it. I'd like to do my fuel system once to handle over 800 rwhp along with the meth setup so I don't have to worry about upgrading it for a long time.
My other option is to build a budget 408 at 10 to 1 or so along with a built trans and rear this coming winter then add the boost the next winter. My car only has 28,000 miles on it so I'd kind of like to try to get a year out of this motor with boost.
$7k will get you a complete blower kit for Procharger. That's retail...maybe some discount ?
Although no idea what belt width this comes with. Buy as wide as they offer.
As for the 4.0 Whipple comment, it's just dumb. The guy asked for 700hp...and obviously wants something easy. Nobody makes a Whipple kit for the cars, nobody makes one for a 4.0 Whipple and a 4.0 is well beyond 700hp territory..plus the fact it'd need a gaping hole in the hood.
If you'd have said a 2.9, for a second it could maybe have been entertained...apart from all of the above reasons too. But a 4.0 Whipple is probably about the worst suggestion you could come up with based on his goals regardless of whether the blower unit itself is a good one or not.
If the UPP turbo kit has been well proven, then of course it could be a viable option too. But how many kits are actually out there and proven ?
$7k will get you a complete blower kit for Procharger. That's retail...maybe some discount ?
Although no idea what belt width this comes with. Buy as wide as they offer.
As for the 4.0 Whipple comment, it's just dumb. The guy asked for 700hp...and obviously wants something easy. Nobody makes a Whipple kit for the cars, nobody makes one for a 4.0 Whipple and a 4.0 is well beyond 700hp territory..plus the fact it'd need a gaping hole in the hood.
If you'd have said a 2.9, for a second it could maybe have been entertained...apart from all of the above reasons too. But a 4.0 Whipple is probably about the worst suggestion you could come up with based on his goals regardless of whether the blower unit itself is a good one or not.
If the UPP turbo kit has been well proven, then of course it could be a viable option too. But how many kits are actually out there and proven ?
What about all the extras like better harmonic balancer, larger 8 rib pulleys for more belt wrap, larger race intercooler, upgrade to newer d1x blower, race bov, etc. How much of that stuff is needed or beneficial to meet my goals?
The kits above offer everything to install under $7k. ( fuel system mods and tuning are up to you of course )
Although oddly they may not include the crank damper which seems a bit bizarre given it is an essential piece of the kit
You said you only wanted 700hp, you would not need the race intercooler upgrade.
The info on that page seems to suggest they are all 8 rib kits as supplied.
Why not call Bob and ask ?
If the new D1 is similar pricing to other head units then I cant see why pricing would vary much if at all.
I'll definitely talk to him before I buy. I want to run the car a couple times as it is cam only first. I also want to get the trans and rear done before adding more power. Just trying to get a solid plan together right now and make sure it all fits in my budget without any surprises I didn't account for.
i can hear the turbo in my turbo car but i cant hear the 1500 novi in the vette. nobody else can. and it idles at 600 rpm too. either you like the spool behaviour of a turbo or you dont. the turbo sure takes more effort to race, as you have to anicipate what it will do.
what has not been mentioned: blower takes power to drive, turbo is free (more or less) and makes the engine more efficient.
btw, go and check what two garrett turbos of that size cost. then you know what your getting with the upp kit.
Ask "skydiver" on here about his CTS-V, which at the old EPP shop we installed a ProCharger (standard ProCharger spring tensioner) F-1A GTO kit back in 2008 or 2009. We started out by removing his LS6 engine that he wanted to save, and went with a new LS2 block. We ended up with a 4.0 stroke 402 with our blower cam and AFR 225 heads. With the LS2 intake manifold we were at 809 rwhp on our Mustang Chassis Dyno, we then swapped out the LS2 intake for a FAST 92. The FAST was so much better that we lost two psi of boost but rwhp went from 809 to 864! This combination has been extremely reliable over the years, Bob did haveto replace the spark plugs at least once and he replaced the blower belt. He has driven his V from Indy to Nebraska and back at least once. Bob
I know how things can escalate quickly financially with forced induction. So with that in mind I'm limiting myself to a d1x blower and small cubic inch motor, either a forged 347, forged 6.0 ls2 block, or maybe an iron 370. I will need to limit boost to what factory heads with arp studs will hold without pushing water. I'm thinking a small cubic inch motor with 14 to 15 pounds of boost will get me close enough to my goals that I'll be happy with it. I also don't want more than a level 6 flt 4l60e and a drivetrain with all dss parts and built factory rear can handle.
I had had a level 4 flt built 4l60e with a factory rear with a kaaz lsd behind a 408 with nitrous that held up fine for three years when I sold the car so I think it will be ok for a while. I will go ahead and research what it would take to put a 4l80e in it just to consider all options.
The upp kit looks like a legit option. They have a big thread on ls1gto and offer a lot of support as well as have an instructional video for install on YouTube. I just think for my goals the procharger is the way to go.
I know how things can escalate quickly financially with forced induction. So with that in mind I'm limiting myself to a d1x blower and small cubic inch motor, either a forged 347, forged 6.0 ls2 block, or maybe an iron 370. I will need to limit boost to what factory heads with arp studs will hold without pushing water. I'm thinking a small cubic inch motor with 14 to 15 pounds of boost will get me close enough to my goals that I'll be happy with it. I also don't want more than a level 6 flt 4l60e and a drivetrain with all dss parts and built factory rear can handle.
I had had a level 4 flt built 4l60e with a factory rear with a kaaz lsd behind a 408 with nitrous that held up fine for three years when I sold the car so I think it will be ok for a while. I will go ahead and research what it would take to put a 4l80e in it just to consider all options.
The upp kit looks like a legit option. They have a big thread on ls1gto and offer a lot of support as well as have an instructional video for install on YouTube. I just think for my goals the procharger is the way to go.
You can move a helluva lot more than 16 psi with studs and stock heads. And as far as transmission goes, you can do a Th400 for a fraction of cost..... and it's damn near bomb proof.
I already have a cam and headers on stock motor, but when I get a forged motor I will have a cam suitable for the combo installed. I'd like to stick with an overdrive trans, but I'll do some more research on transmissions before I make a decision. I'd like to stick with stock heads, intake,and throttle body to keep costs down for now.
You could just as easily bolt on a base blower kit, pullied for around 10psi, have it tuned and live with that for a while.
Then you can decide where to put funds next as and when ready.
I think that's what I'll do, but maybe 7 or 8 psi to help motor survive a little bit. I thought at even low boost the stock 4l60e might be in trouble though as well as stock posi is a little weak.
You can move a helluva lot more than 16 psi with studs and stock heads. And as far as transmission goes, you can do a Th400 for a fraction of cost..... and it's damn near bomb proof.
Ya a lot more... over double actually! 317's, studs, and LS9 gaskets have held in 35+.
Some people seem to be overly concerned about MPG when you mention a TH400. But why you want to make good power and be concerned with MPG I have no idea. People spend a ton to make a 4L80 work because they are concerned with MPG. I took out my 6L80 and replaced it with a TH400 and highway MPG might have changed 2 MPG. I still got 18-20MPG cruising with the TH400 on E85 which was good enough for me. The 4L80 costs over $2k more for a similar build, its going to take a long time to get that $2k back 2MPG at a time.
I think that's what I'll do, but maybe 7 or 8 psi to help motor survive a little bit. I thought at even low boost the stock 4l60e might be in trouble though as well as stock posi is a little weak.
I would build tranny before ever putting a kit on. A kit with stock tranny is pointless. Also 7 psi on a procharger kit runs like ****. I've done it twice and the power sucked. An LS2 will run fine at 10psi. I ran my 90k ls1 motor on 10 psi with no problems... Doing the low boost to make things survive method sucks.
If it were me I would mod it the right way so you arent taking everything out twice. Put a TMS 370 in it with a decent boost cam and a built tranny. This will be a good gain in power you can have before you get the procharger kit. Then while you save for that you can have a badass motor and trans in the car and see what it runs like that. And when you get the procharger on you can see what your gains are again. Putting the blower on and then taking it back off and redoing it all when you put the new motor in will suck.
06-05-2017, 05:24 PM
