Smallest twin for 5.7 ls1 swap
500whp boosted makes WAY more torque than 500whp NA. Why is this even a discussion? A stock LS1 with a turbo will do 500whp and 500ftlbs on low boost. Last time I checked 500whp NA MIGHT make 430ftlbs.
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Sorry all, didnt want to spark a too lively debate. I should have said though i can get all hotside piping and possibly cold side for nothing. So hoping all will cost me is bov, wg, oil feed line, intercooler, injectors plugs and hoses. I realise it could spiral but thinking this would be waaay cheaper than a na 500whp drivable build. Already have turbo for £100. Maybe springs and rods if cost allows but wont be pushing high numbers anyway as would never get power down.
Sometimes its just for acheivement as well as never done turbo install. Will self tune with efilive i already have.
Unless someone could say otherwise.
Regards
Gav
Sometimes its just for acheivement as well as never done turbo install. Will self tune with efilive i already have.
Unless someone could say otherwise.
Regards
Gav
But it will have the rpm to multiply the tq via gear. As the highly edumacated problem solver you think you are i thought you woulda been able to figure that out.
On top of that the na car will weigh less.
Btw my bolt on ls6 had 423wtq. Darths had like 440wtq. I think it's perfectly reasonable to even get in the 450+ range.
Now I'm all for boosted stuff. But not for the power level op is looking for on a ls......if he even needs it for target acceleration numbers. Whatever they may be because that's what one should say instead of a power figure to start with.
On top of that the na car will weigh less.
Btw my bolt on ls6 had 423wtq. Darths had like 440wtq. I think it's perfectly reasonable to even get in the 450+ range.
Now I'm all for boosted stuff. But not for the power level op is looking for on a ls......if he even needs it for target acceleration numbers. Whatever they may be because that's what one should say instead of a power figure to start with.
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But it will have the rpm to multiply the tq via gear. As the highly edumacated problem solver you think you are i thought you woulda been able to figure that out.
On top of that the na car will weigh less.
Btw my bolt on ls6 had 423wtq. Darths had like 440wtq. I think it's perfectly reasonable to even get in the 450+ range.
Now I'm all for boosted stuff. But not for the power level op is looking for on a ls......if he even needs it for target acceleration numbers. Whatever they may be because that's what one should say instead of a power figure to start with.
On top of that the na car will weigh less.
Btw my bolt on ls6 had 423wtq. Darths had like 440wtq. I think it's perfectly reasonable to even get in the 450+ range.
Now I'm all for boosted stuff. But not for the power level op is looking for on a ls......if he even needs it for target acceleration numbers. Whatever they may be because that's what one should say instead of a power figure to start with.
You're also factoring in things like higher numerical gearing, which makes an N/A car less reliable. It will turn higher RPMs on the street and highway and use more fuel in normal driving situations.
boosted car can also do this, but not only do they not need the higher gearing, its just a lot harder to use with all of the extra torque.
In an apples to apples comparison, this is going to make the N/A less reliable than a turbo car.
N/A car will weigh less by 50-70 lbs. The boosted torque difference will be greater than that.
I could turbo a high-mile 4.8 for less than a pair of CNC ported stock castings for an N/A setup and you'd literally never make the same power, drive as well, get the same fuel economy, or get as many miles out of it.
I'm 100% up to the challenge if you want to take me up on that. Engine dyno already on hand.
You're only assuming that someone doesn't want to rev out their boosted engine. My stock gen 3 4.8 cranks out 7200-7400 RPM with loads of boost.
You're also factoring in things like higher numerical gearing, which makes an N/A car less reliable. It will turn higher RPMs on the street and highway and use more fuel in normal driving situations.
boosted car can also do this, but not only do they not need the higher gearing, its just a lot harder to use with all of the extra torque.
In an apples to apples comparison, this is going to make the N/A less reliable than a turbo car.
N/A car will weigh less by 50-70 lbs. The boosted torque difference will be greater than that.
I could turbo a high-mile 4.8 for less than a pair of CNC ported stock castings for an N/A setup and you'd literally never make the same power, drive as well, get the same fuel economy, or get as many miles out of it.
I'm 100% up to the challenge if you want to take me up on that. Engine dyno already on hand.
You're also factoring in things like higher numerical gearing, which makes an N/A car less reliable. It will turn higher RPMs on the street and highway and use more fuel in normal driving situations.
boosted car can also do this, but not only do they not need the higher gearing, its just a lot harder to use with all of the extra torque.
In an apples to apples comparison, this is going to make the N/A less reliable than a turbo car.
N/A car will weigh less by 50-70 lbs. The boosted torque difference will be greater than that.
I could turbo a high-mile 4.8 for less than a pair of CNC ported stock castings for an N/A setup and you'd literally never make the same power, drive as well, get the same fuel economy, or get as many miles out of it.
I'm 100% up to the challenge if you want to take me up on that. Engine dyno already on hand.
Those who can, go boosted. Those who can't, run "bolt-ins" and make grand claims as the highest XYZ hp build. This of course takes nothing away from those who want to do a serious NA build. Different strokes for different folks.
I'm not assuming ****. I'm going off what op thinks he wants. I know boosted engines can rev......but op is not revving a a boosted 5.7 to 7k+ for only 550whp. So what you turn your 4.8 has nothing to do with op.
Did op say what trans he has? I don't remember but if he is running a 6 speed higher numerical rear gear DOES NOT MATER when you have a .50 od. He could run 5.13s and go up the road just fine.....not that i would.
You're talking about YOU putting together a turbo system for 1/2 $ than heads for a na car. Although stock 243s can easily support 500whp so im assuming you can put together a COMPLETE reliable system for $300 at this point which i doubt.
Not to mention does op have the skills or the tools to build such a system w/o it being a complete pos.
Remember......we are talking op goals not you guys. 550whp is a wasted effort for a boosted 5.7 these days.
What is your acceleration goals op? That's the best place to start.
Or are you just looking to do a turbo set up so you can just have a turbo set up at the car shows?
Acceleration goals and car show/dyno goals are 2 different things.
Did op say what trans he has? I don't remember but if he is running a 6 speed higher numerical rear gear DOES NOT MATER when you have a .50 od. He could run 5.13s and go up the road just fine.....not that i would.
You're talking about YOU putting together a turbo system for 1/2 $ than heads for a na car. Although stock 243s can easily support 500whp so im assuming you can put together a COMPLETE reliable system for $300 at this point which i doubt.
Not to mention does op have the skills or the tools to build such a system w/o it being a complete pos.
Remember......we are talking op goals not you guys. 550whp is a wasted effort for a boosted 5.7 these days.
What is your acceleration goals op? That's the best place to start.
Or are you just looking to do a turbo set up so you can just have a turbo set up at the car shows?
Acceleration goals and car show/dyno goals are 2 different things.
Bingo, love it. Also notice that I dropped it down to 500 whp for a fair comparison because H/C/I/E 346's aren't making 550 whp unless unicorn and even then, compare the torque curve. The NA 346 is going to have to rev to 8k and will be a dog down low.
Those who can, go boosted. Those who can't, run "bolt-ins" and make grand claims as the highest XYZ hp build. This of course takes nothing away from those who want to do a serious NA build. Different strokes for different folks.
Those who can, go boosted. Those who can't, run "bolt-ins" and make grand claims as the highest XYZ hp build. This of course takes nothing away from those who want to do a serious NA build. Different strokes for different folks.
Btw joe on the weight thing. Most are running 4.8/5.3s made of iron in the boosted world. So it ends up not being 60-70lb which is probably conservative anyway. It's gonna be 150+ at a minimum and probably more realistic in the 175 range in the end. Right on the nose. And in op's case that 70ish lb right on the nose of probably 2500lb or less short wheelbase car that he's now gonna have to tune for also. Which may or may not be a big deal for him.
But it's definitely gonna be a higher percentage added than it is to most people's 3500lb ~ car.
It seems not many people think all this through. Especially the greatest self touted problem solver known to man.....dpbuttsniper
But it's definitely gonna be a higher percentage added than it is to most people's 3500lb ~ car.
It seems not many people think all this through. Especially the greatest self touted problem solver known to man.....dpbuttsniper
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Replies in bold.
I know boosted engines can rev......but op is not revving a a boosted 5.7 to 7k+ for only 550whp.
Thanks for arguing my point. He can, but he doesn't have to. One of the perks of a boosted setup. If he did, it would be faster than an N/A setup revving to the same RPM, literally every factor included.
Did op say what trans he has? I don't remember but if he is running a 6 speed higher numerical rear gear DOES NOT MATER when you have a .50 od. He could run 5.13s and go up the road just fine.....not that i would.
Awesome. So he should run that 5.13 with a boosted setup as well and accelerate quicker than a comparable N/A setup thanks to all of the extra torque. Go ahead and keep taking away N/A's "advantages".
You're talking about YOU putting together a turbo system for 1/2 $ than heads for a na car. Although stock 243s can easily support 500whp so im assuming you can put together a COMPLETE reliable system for $300 at this point which i doubt.
I said CNC ported stockers. I've done 600whp turbo setups for $800 multiple times, and I would be willing to bet that I could do it for $600.
Even if you spent $300 on stock 243s, that last $500 isn't going to get you anywhere CLOSE to the power that an $800 setup would do.
A turbo setup on a stock cam and stock ECU is also considerably easier to tune than an N/A setup. It really narrows down the amount of tables and cells you need to edit.
I wouldn't mind seeing you try to make 500whp on an N/A setup with completely stock 243s. Possible? Yeah. Cost effective or effortless? HA.
Not to mention does op have the skills or the tools to build such a system w/o it being a complete pos.
Yes, he said he did in the very first post.
Remember......we are talking op goals not you guys. 550whp is a wasted effort for a boosted 5.7 these days.
Link me to all of the 550whp N/A 5.7s, then tell me how often they are street driven and how cost effective they were compared to a turbo setup.
What is your acceleration goals op? That's the best place to start.
Why? Are you admitting that 550whp N/A and 550whp boosted are going to accelerate differently???
Or are you just looking to do a turbo set up so you can just have a turbo set up at the car shows?
Another perk!
Acceleration goals and car show/dyno goals are 2 different things.
Thanks for arguing my point. He can, but he doesn't have to. One of the perks of a boosted setup. If he did, it would be faster than an N/A setup revving to the same RPM, literally every factor included.
Did op say what trans he has? I don't remember but if he is running a 6 speed higher numerical rear gear DOES NOT MATER when you have a .50 od. He could run 5.13s and go up the road just fine.....not that i would.
Awesome. So he should run that 5.13 with a boosted setup as well and accelerate quicker than a comparable N/A setup thanks to all of the extra torque. Go ahead and keep taking away N/A's "advantages".
You're talking about YOU putting together a turbo system for 1/2 $ than heads for a na car. Although stock 243s can easily support 500whp so im assuming you can put together a COMPLETE reliable system for $300 at this point which i doubt.
I said CNC ported stockers. I've done 600whp turbo setups for $800 multiple times, and I would be willing to bet that I could do it for $600.
Even if you spent $300 on stock 243s, that last $500 isn't going to get you anywhere CLOSE to the power that an $800 setup would do.
A turbo setup on a stock cam and stock ECU is also considerably easier to tune than an N/A setup. It really narrows down the amount of tables and cells you need to edit.
I wouldn't mind seeing you try to make 500whp on an N/A setup with completely stock 243s. Possible? Yeah. Cost effective or effortless? HA.
Not to mention does op have the skills or the tools to build such a system w/o it being a complete pos.
Yes, he said he did in the very first post.
Remember......we are talking op goals not you guys. 550whp is a wasted effort for a boosted 5.7 these days.
Link me to all of the 550whp N/A 5.7s, then tell me how often they are street driven and how cost effective they were compared to a turbo setup.
What is your acceleration goals op? That's the best place to start.
Why? Are you admitting that 550whp N/A and 550whp boosted are going to accelerate differently???
Or are you just looking to do a turbo set up so you can just have a turbo set up at the car shows?
Another perk!
Acceleration goals and car show/dyno goals are 2 different things.
Holy crap, this is funny. I have him set to ignore so I only get to see the hilariousness when you/someone quotes. Joe just remember.......1000 hours of labor and R&D into a magical bolt-in setup at $50/hr=$50,000; compared to a turbo kit installed in a week=$4000 on the high end.....man those turbo kits are expensive!!! So slower and more expensive considering that time ain't free. Gotta love it.
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Staging Lane
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The other thing some guys forget is. Who ever stays satisfied with their hp goals? You reach 500 hp na you run it for a year or two you get bored. You have no where to really grow to. If your boosted there are alway more ways to raise that power output easily.
You point sucks. And you ignore op goals with a cave man view of your own.
This is what makes you a joke. You want to run your mouth with no reply. You certainly don't have a clue how to do anything but make stuff underperform for what it is which is why your h/c boosted junk couldn't outrun my bolt on ls6. And that is no exaggeration like you need.
Just to show what a absolute moron you are. How many hours you think op has in his ac cobra build? You gonna make fun of him for spending time on his hotrod? Come on chump.....answer up
+1
I think I've mentioned that.....along with unknown op skill set.
Another downside is heat. Ac cobras are notoriously hot to ride in. Twins ain't gonna make it cooler.
Yea....even boosted stuff needs a solid foundation.
Acceleration goals op?
Holy crap, this is funny. I have him set to ignore so I only get to see the hilariousness when you/someone quotes. Joe just remember.......1000 hours of labor and R&D into a magical bolt-in setup at $50/hr=$50,000; compared to a turbo kit installed in a week=$4000 on the high end.....man those turbo kits are expensive!!! So slower and more expensive considering that time ain't free. Gotta love it.
Just to show what a absolute moron you are. How many hours you think op has in his ac cobra build? You gonna make fun of him for spending time on his hotrod? Come on chump.....answer up
I think I've mentioned that.....along with unknown op skill set.
Another downside is heat. Ac cobras are notoriously hot to ride in. Twins ain't gonna make it cooler.
Acceleration goals op?
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You came in trying to give an unreasonable alternative. I'm still waiting on you to show me these 550whp N/A 5.7 builds that have ANY upsides versus what he wants to do.
We're all waiting........
Originally Posted by HioSSilver
I think I've mentioned that.....along with unknown op skill set.
Originally Posted by HioSSilver
Not to mention does op have the skills or the tools to build such a system w/o it being a complete pos.
Originally Posted by HioSSilver
Another downside is heat. Ac cobras are notoriously hot to ride in. Twins ain't gonna make it cooler.
Originally Posted by HioSSilver
Yea....even boosted stuff needs a solid foundation.
Exactly how much experience do you have with boosted LS setups? I couldn't count with both hands the number each of N/A or boosted setups I've done.
Value and driveability don't even come close with the N/A setups unless its a very mild cam only setup because you aren't chasing power.
If 500whp boosted is pointless, I'm still 100% willing to do a 600 HP flywheel N/A vs boosted test with you. Your dyno time will be free.
We will tally up the amount of time spent preparing the engine, average power/torque, peak power/torque, total cost, and fuel consumption at cruising speed using whatever RPM you decide based on your choice of what gearing/speed you would be cruising at.
IF YOU WIN A SINGLE CATEGORY, I'll give you my entire engine/turbo setup.
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Since I can't edit posts. If you don't win ONE single category, then I get your engine setup. I'm willing to do an all or nothing.
After I win, I'll take that 600 HP engine and spend 5 to 10 minutes making small adjustments and make another 200 horsepower.
Yes, I'm flat out calling you out right now.
After I win, I'll take that 600 HP engine and spend 5 to 10 minutes making small adjustments and make another 200 horsepower.
Yes, I'm flat out calling you out right now.
Since I can't edit posts. If you don't win ONE single category, then I get your engine setup. I'm willing to do an all or nothing.
After I win, I'll take that 600 HP engine and spend 5 to 10 minutes making small adjustments and make another 200 horsepower.
Yes, I'm flat out calling you out right now.
After I win, I'll take that 600 HP engine and spend 5 to 10 minutes making small adjustments and make another 200 horsepower.
Yes, I'm flat out calling you out right now.
I haven't ignored his goals. He wants 550whp out of his 5.7 with 650-700 as an option. Your N/A build does not apply in this case. Plain and simple, YOU have ignored his goals.
You came in trying to give an unreasonable alternative. I'm still waiting on you to show me these 550whp N/A 5.7 builds that have ANY upsides versus what he wants to do.
We're all waiting........
Again, you've ignored him.
Coat/wrap the hotside. Works fine for my Nova. Under hood temps are lower than either of my 4 cylinder cars. I even cheaped out and used ebay coatings/wraps.
GM did a damn good job of providing that.
Exactly how much experience do you have with boosted LS setups? I couldn't count with both hands the number each of N/A or boosted setups I've done.
Value and driveability don't even come close with the N/A setups unless its a very mild cam only setup because you aren't chasing power.
If 500whp boosted is pointless, I'm still 100% willing to do a 600 HP flywheel N/A vs boosted test with you. Your dyno time will be free.
We will tally up the amount of time spent preparing the engine, average power/torque, peak power/torque, total cost, and fuel consumption at cruising speed using whatever RPM you decide based on your choice of what gearing/speed you would be cruising at.
IF YOU WIN A SINGLE CATEGORY, I'll give you my entire engine/turbo setup.
You came in trying to give an unreasonable alternative. I'm still waiting on you to show me these 550whp N/A 5.7 builds that have ANY upsides versus what he wants to do.
We're all waiting........
Again, you've ignored him.
Coat/wrap the hotside. Works fine for my Nova. Under hood temps are lower than either of my 4 cylinder cars. I even cheaped out and used ebay coatings/wraps.
GM did a damn good job of providing that.
Exactly how much experience do you have with boosted LS setups? I couldn't count with both hands the number each of N/A or boosted setups I've done.
Value and driveability don't even come close with the N/A setups unless its a very mild cam only setup because you aren't chasing power.
If 500whp boosted is pointless, I'm still 100% willing to do a 600 HP flywheel N/A vs boosted test with you. Your dyno time will be free.
We will tally up the amount of time spent preparing the engine, average power/torque, peak power/torque, total cost, and fuel consumption at cruising speed using whatever RPM you decide based on your choice of what gearing/speed you would be cruising at.
IF YOU WIN A SINGLE CATEGORY, I'll give you my entire engine/turbo setup.
What is target acceleration? Op still hasn't answered and it seems you may only race dynos since all you can talk is hp.
Gm did a great job with a solid foundation. that's why it's able to turn rpm.
We're not talking about your nova.
Missed where op can make whatever he wants. If op is that good then he shouldn't have a goal of only 550whp out if a 5.7.....not a 4.8......not a 5.3. But a 5.7. That's not even a goal for a 5.7 boosted.
Again....i haven't ignored his goals. That's why i have asked him for acceleration goals. It's a much more logical way to go about building a hotrod.
Since I can't edit posts. If you don't win ONE single category, then I get your engine setup. I'm willing to do an all or nothing.
After I win, I'll take that 600 HP engine and spend 5 to 10 minutes making small adjustments and make another 200 horsepower.
Yes, I'm flat out calling you out right now.
After I win, I'll take that 600 HP engine and spend 5 to 10 minutes making small adjustments and make another 200 horsepower.
Yes, I'm flat out calling you out right now.
Don't hold your breath. This is typical. Talk only, hasn't been to the track with his "bolt-in" setup in years without blowing something up (hard to keep track if its 3 or 4 N/A motors). I rather run a 13 second 1/4 mile pass than talk all day with a setup that doesn't run.
I just ran at the track a week and a half ago. More lies from someone to much of a chump to talk directly to them.
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Yeah, I'll gladly pay shipping. When I win, you reimburse me and setup return shipping or you don't get your engine back.
WE ARE STILL WAITING FOR THESE 550WHP N/A 5.7s THAT ARE SO EASY TO MAKE. FINDING JUST ONE DOESN'T COUNT. SHOW THEM OR SHUT UP.
1. Total time of assembly/tuning.
2. Total cost involved
3. Peak Power
4. Peak Torque
5. Average Power
6. Average Torque
7. Fuel consumption at cruise RPM.
Which one of these do you think you'll win?
I can fab up the entire turbo setup on the dyno and have it ready to go in less than 2 hours, and another 30 minutes to swap valve springs. 30 minutes to tune. 3 hours total tuned and making power.
You use a 5.7 as a base. I'll use an aluminum 5.3 as a base to keep them close. I already have a stock 5.3 sitting around waiting. If you prefer I use a gen3 4.8 to further your embarrassment, I can do that too.
All you literally have to do to win a complete running and tuned 600+ horsepower LS engine and a dyno sheet to go along with whatever one you build, is not be full of ****. I'm absorbing the risks.
Originally Posted by HioSSilver
If op is that good then he shouldn't have a goal of only 550whp out if a 5.7.....not a 4.8......not a 5.3. But a 5.7. That's not even a goal for a 5.7 boosted.
Originally Posted by HioSSilver
I've already shown and won several categories. Do you only looking in the mirror calling yourself out.
2. Total cost involved
3. Peak Power
4. Peak Torque
5. Average Power
6. Average Torque
7. Fuel consumption at cruise RPM.
Which one of these do you think you'll win?
I can fab up the entire turbo setup on the dyno and have it ready to go in less than 2 hours, and another 30 minutes to swap valve springs. 30 minutes to tune. 3 hours total tuned and making power.
You use a 5.7 as a base. I'll use an aluminum 5.3 as a base to keep them close. I already have a stock 5.3 sitting around waiting. If you prefer I use a gen3 4.8 to further your embarrassment, I can do that too.
All you literally have to do to win a complete running and tuned 600+ horsepower LS engine and a dyno sheet to go along with whatever one you build, is not be full of ****. I'm absorbing the risks.