Siphoning Meth/H2O @ low ?
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From: Wellington, FL
Siphoning Meth/H2O @ low ? To cut to the chase:
Could I be siphoning from my meth tank @ low rpm ( out of boost cruising) ?
Im experiencing spuratic drivability issues at 1800 rpm & lower. It runs smooth as silk higher than that but stumbles and feels as if it “loaded up” from 1500 - 1800. Car was tuned by a reputable tuner but I think I have another issue beside the tune. This seems more than a “ big cam” chugging issue.
I stumbled on to what I may believe is the cause.
the extended back info:
I have an Alchy control kit. I’m tuned for safety only. Love the kit & Julio is second to none re: customer service. He helped me sort through some recent wiring issues & I appreciate it. Today being Sunday, I didn’t even want to try to call as he would propabaly answer & I figured I’d give the guy a break.
I do believe I’m siphoning meth/ water at WOT, while working through a few wiring issues with the kit ( wasn’t turning on fully) I would log my IAT temps & watch them drop a little and stay stable on the hit & my AFR stayed in check as well. I could also see the reservoir going down after a few good pulls. I realized that while my pump was below my reservoir ( a good thing) my nozzle was also low on the intake pipe. Bingo. Now that I have fixed the wiring issue & the pump is properly spraying in boost, I figured what’s the big deal so I left the small 15g nozzle where it is.
I should note that while cruising out of boost I can not detect any appreciable reduction of meth/H2O in the resevoir.
Jump forward to yesterday & today: after a few good hits & while cruising around out of boost I noticed that my drivability had improved. I also realized that my meth/H2O reservoir was getting very low from the WOT pulls. I thought MAYBE .... the H2O part of the mix ( if siphoning was occurring at cruise ) was dowsing the flame so to speak at the lower rpm range. Furthermore, the low reservoir was inhibiting that happening to the degree it was previously.
Today I decided to drain the reservoir with a little left in the hoses etc.. drivability was even better, almost perfect.
Is is this plausible ?
If it is, I’m wondering if (in between time) I could use 100% meth ? This way when the siphoning occurs it is bringing burnable fuel instead of 50% water. My thoughts are that at worst case I’d be running a little rich ?
Am I on the right track until I move the nozzle ?
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I'm still wondering about the short term bandied of 100% meth to burn clean if I am in fact pulling/ siphoning while out of boost.
The pump has a check valve in it. Shouldn't leak. You can also get a check valve you install at the nozzle. Mark the reservoir with a dry erase marker and go drive around to verify.
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Although not identical issues as you, I found I was losing methanol as well even when parked. I thought it was due to evaporation.
Since what little driving I was doing and rarely getting into boost, the level would drop even more while driving.
But while driving I could see the red light flicker on and off but did not give it much thought.
A few weeks ago finally got around to installing recovered seats. I absent mindedly left the key on for three hours when installing the seats in the car. During this time the methanol system was apparently arming itself periodically unknown to me. So when I started the car it hydro locked and knocked a rod thru the side of the block.
IMO if the system would have had a one way pressure sensitive check valve this wouldn’t have happened. The problem is that this system didn’t come with this type of check valve and nothing in the product literature suggested that that one be installed. BTW - the pump is brand new.
I had a GM tech install the system who followed all of the instructions to the t. And it didn’t occur to either of us that this catastrophe could occur. My dyno guy said the same thing happened to one of his clients - hydrolocked the engine.
Thankfully I discovered this before installing the new TSP engine TSP is building - else am sure the same thing would have happened to the new engine. I have removed the system and don’t plan to install it again ever. A $26 pressure sensitive one way check valve IMO would have eliminated this catastrophe.
It's my bad for not fully understanding how the system worked or should have worked. The fact that the red light was dimming on and off should have been a clue that the pump was coming on and off randomly at low rpms. But even so, with a check valve the methanol would have stayed in the lines. IMO no system should be sold without a check valve that only opens under 10 lbs of pressure or more
My suggestion- before running your system again, I would install a check valve just before the nozzle so it only open when under high pressure and not dribble into the charge pipe like what happened to me.
Since what little driving I was doing and rarely getting into boost, the level would drop even more while driving.
But while driving I could see the red light flicker on and off but did not give it much thought.
A few weeks ago finally got around to installing recovered seats. I absent mindedly left the key on for three hours when installing the seats in the car. During this time the methanol system was apparently arming itself periodically unknown to me. So when I started the car it hydro locked and knocked a rod thru the side of the block.
IMO if the system would have had a one way pressure sensitive check valve this wouldn’t have happened. The problem is that this system didn’t come with this type of check valve and nothing in the product literature suggested that that one be installed. BTW - the pump is brand new.
I had a GM tech install the system who followed all of the instructions to the t. And it didn’t occur to either of us that this catastrophe could occur. My dyno guy said the same thing happened to one of his clients - hydrolocked the engine.
Thankfully I discovered this before installing the new TSP engine TSP is building - else am sure the same thing would have happened to the new engine. I have removed the system and don’t plan to install it again ever. A $26 pressure sensitive one way check valve IMO would have eliminated this catastrophe.
It's my bad for not fully understanding how the system worked or should have worked. The fact that the red light was dimming on and off should have been a clue that the pump was coming on and off randomly at low rpms. But even so, with a check valve the methanol would have stayed in the lines. IMO no system should be sold without a check valve that only opens under 10 lbs of pressure or more
My suggestion- before running your system again, I would install a check valve just before the nozzle so it only open when under high pressure and not dribble into the charge pipe like what happened to me.
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Makes sense.
Before I do anything I’m taking Forcefed’s advice. I’ve marked the reservoir, I will stay out of boost & check my levels.
I don’t know if if is actually happening while I’m driving out of boost. It’s definitely not happening while it sits in the garage or with the Ignition on (engine not running). I know this because I have a mark on the reservoir and it has not moved a bit.
Before I do anything I’m taking Forcefed’s advice. I’ve marked the reservoir, I will stay out of boost & check my levels.
I don’t know if if is actually happening while I’m driving out of boost. It’s definitely not happening while it sits in the garage or with the Ignition on (engine not running). I know this because I have a mark on the reservoir and it has not moved a bit.
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Yup good point I recall my aem meth kit also said make sure nozzel was higher than the tank even though the nozzels have a one way check valve in them
No saying it isn’t a good idea, just that it shouldn’t leak if it’s working properly. I’ve def. seen the pump check valves leak... Even seen the check valves get gunked up and leak.
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Either way, I need to address it. Get a Solenoid, clean existing nozzle & check valve. Maybe even adjust the height of the resvoir if I have the space to mount it a little lower.
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From: Wellington, FL
Thread Starter
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From: Wellington, FL
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this is exactly what I’m wondering, I’m not with the car at the moment & im thinking the nozzle is about the same height as the reservoir low point or mid point. I’ll get a good look over the weekend. I do remember a conversation with Julio re: siphoning if the nozzle is below the tank. This conversation was related to WOT, and it is possible and was happening. My real question is can it happen in the lower rpm range ? I think my answer is yes. This is all making more sense. I mentioned earlier that my stumbling issue deminished as the meth tank started to get low. I’ll bet the nozzle is the height of that point. Probably mid tank. Liquids will seek the lowest point. My thoughts are, when the meth hit the mid point of the revevoir ( which is the hieght of the nozzle) the low rpm siphoning stopped. My stumble went away.
Either way, I need to address it. Get a Solenoid, clean existing nozzle & check valve. Maybe even adjust the height of the resvoir if I have the space to mount it a little lower.
Does a pressure sensitive one way check value only open on the inlet side due to pressure or can it be pulled open from the outlet side with suction?
A question that I had but never asked is this. It is suggested to run a colder plug with FI systems. However when adding methanol into the mix should one still use a colder plug or NOT?
The only reason to run a hotter plug is if you are fouling plugs. Has nothing to do with spark energy. Alky doesnt foul plugs at all... so no reason to run hotter. NGK 7 heat range on all turbo cars. Its the coolest resisted plug available at reasonable prices.
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Thanks JimmyG, that was my next question.
As as a precaution I dropped the reservoir lower than the nozzle. I intend to give it try in a few hours. This is just a bandaid. That is the 1/2 assed way to deal with this ... but I’m truly not in the mood to drill a new hole, plug the old & move the nozzle.
Ultimatly a $60 precaution such as this can save me some agrivation.
Can you give me any advise on the wiring & instal.
-What triggers the solenoid ? ( same MAP sensor wire ?).
- is it positioned on the high pressure side (just before the nozzle) or between tank & pump.
As as a precaution I dropped the reservoir lower than the nozzle. I intend to give it try in a few hours. This is just a bandaid. That is the 1/2 assed way to deal with this ... but I’m truly not in the mood to drill a new hole, plug the old & move the nozzle.
Ultimatly a $60 precaution such as this can save me some agrivation.
Can you give me any advise on the wiring & instal.
-What triggers the solenoid ? ( same MAP sensor wire ?).
- is it positioned on the high pressure side (just before the nozzle) or between tank & pump.