My first single turbo build
08-28-2018, 08:08 PM
#101
So after looking at the calculator, it looks like 53lb injectors are needed to make 700 flywheel. So basically everything I’ve done so far all falls in line with that. My turbo, injectors and fuel pump. So I should be good. Right? Lol. If this motor will hold up to that.
Last edited by Kfxguy; 05-08-2019 at 03:35 PM.
08-28-2018, 08:21 PM
#102
That’s just the data inputted into the HPT software... doesn’t mean it’s flow data. Only way to get that is from the manufacture or get them flow tested. You can input any number you want in those fields. As the pressure drops flow does not increase... it’s the opposite. Increased pressure pushes more fuel out, the injectors are a fixed orfice with a magnetic plug (laymen’s terms). They are closed or open till energized and open/close allowing fuel (under pressure to escape). The pressure determines the flow.
If they are real deka and are 60lb then they are rated at 60lb at 43psi and they should be flow matched +\- 2%. So they are around 70lb at 58psi as long as the pump can supply the pressure.
60lb injectors at 43psi would be good for 650ish hp at the crank. Bump them to 70lb at 58psi and you cpild
max out around 750hp. The BSCF of a turbo motor goes from .5 NA to .6-.65
honestly if u stay below 8psi your not going to max out them at 43psi. I am in the low 65% INJ DC at 10psi with 60lb Dekas at 43psi. If I bump to 14psi my injector DC jumps to 80s/90 %.
You will I’ll be fine basically. No reason the motor can’t take it. My 5.3 has 152k on it and the short block is stock, never even removed a cap or filed a ring.
If they are real deka and are 60lb then they are rated at 60lb at 43psi and they should be flow matched +\- 2%. So they are around 70lb at 58psi as long as the pump can supply the pressure.
60lb injectors at 43psi would be good for 650ish hp at the crank. Bump them to 70lb at 58psi and you cpild
max out around 750hp. The BSCF of a turbo motor goes from .5 NA to .6-.65
honestly if u stay below 8psi your not going to max out them at 43psi. I am in the low 65% INJ DC at 10psi with 60lb Dekas at 43psi. If I bump to 14psi my injector DC jumps to 80s/90 %.
You will I’ll be fine basically. No reason the motor can’t take it. My 5.3 has 152k on it and the short block is stock, never even removed a cap or filed a ring.
08-28-2018, 08:42 PM
#103
That’s just the data inputted into the HPT software... doesn’t mean it’s flow data. Only way to get that is from the manufacture or get them flow tested. You can input any number you want in those fields. As the pressure drops flow does not increase... it’s the opposite. Increased pressure pushes more fuel out, the injectors are a fixed orfice with a magnetic plug (laymen’s terms). They are closed or open till energized and open/close allowing fuel (under pressure to escape). The pressure determines the flow.
If they are real deka and are 60lb then they are rated at 60lb at 43psi and they should be flow matched +\- 2%. So they are around 70lb at 58psi as long as the pump can supply the pressure.
60lb injectors at 43psi would be good for 650ish hp at the crank. Bump them to 70lb at 58psi and you cpild
max out around 750hp. The BSCF of a turbo motor goes from .5 NA to .6-.65
honestly if u stay below 8psi your not going to max out them at 43psi. I am in the low 65% INJ DC at 10psi with 60lb Dekas at 43psi. If I bump to 14psi my injector DC jumps to 80s/90 %.
You will I’ll be fine basically. No reason the motor can’t take it. My 5.3 has 152k on it and the short block is stock, never even removed a cap or filed a ring.
If they are real deka and are 60lb then they are rated at 60lb at 43psi and they should be flow matched +\- 2%. So they are around 70lb at 58psi as long as the pump can supply the pressure.
60lb injectors at 43psi would be good for 650ish hp at the crank. Bump them to 70lb at 58psi and you cpild
max out around 750hp. The BSCF of a turbo motor goes from .5 NA to .6-.65
honestly if u stay below 8psi your not going to max out them at 43psi. I am in the low 65% INJ DC at 10psi with 60lb Dekas at 43psi. If I bump to 14psi my injector DC jumps to 80s/90 %.
You will I’ll be fine basically. No reason the motor can’t take it. My 5.3 has 152k on it and the short block is stock, never even removed a cap or filed a ring.
i gotcha. Your right, I would have them glowed but that adds cost and time to my project. They are real Dekas. You think this thing will hold 14 psi? I’d be way to scared to try that. I wouldn’t with no intercooler anyways. I’m trying to keep it simple for now.
08-30-2018, 02:49 PM
#107
Ok here’s an update. Read through for anyone doing this. There’s lots of conflicting info on the web. What I’m am about to tell you is fresh on my mind and by actual experience. So. I got it running and driving. Last night I swapped in a cobalt map, 2 bar, it’s not 2.5 bar. The boost sensor a cobalt has is 2.5 bar, at least that’s what a gm engineer had posted. I don’t care anyways, this map works perfect. Gm part number 12580698. I installed my 60lb dekas. I did a complete rewrite to a custom 2 bar operating system. I uploaded the injector data a buddy sent me. (If you need it I have it in a tune file for easy copy paste because I’m not trying to be a secretive jerk) Turned the maf off just in case. Cranked it. Fired up and idles perfect. I had to make some fueling adjustments because it would barely rev. Got that out the way. Then I could not stall it up. More adjustments. I had a trans line pop out the radiator cooler, hate those factory quick connects now. I had fluid go everywhere. Cleaned it up but not so good. Kept getting smoke. So I washed the under side of the car. Let it warm up to dry everything off. Found a small leak at the drain flange on the turbo. Damnit. So I’ll have to fix that. But hell. Think about it. All the **** I did and that’s all I gotta fix? Not too bad. I’m satisfied so far. Now for the more interesting ****.
Took her out on the road. Had it running fat. Get on it, no boost. Cutout. Ok. Still too rich.
O btw.....it’s much quieter but kinda sounds like ****. Like a grand national. O well. Flock it.
Anyways. Lean it out a few times. Finally get some boost. Guage said 5psi. I didn’t run it out. Afr was in the low 10’s. Still too rich. Scanner and map sensor said 3.5psi. Probably more accurate than a $25 China guage. Time for an upgrade. I made three back to back pulls. I only pulled it to 5700rpm and 70% throttle. No boost creep I saw. Intake air temps got to 189f. Yea. I know. I know. It is very hot today too. I won’t keep gouging on it. Plus it running rich probably didn’t help. I do need to change my fuel pump so I’m dancing with the devil right now. Im going to stay out of it till I get the pump.
I’m pleased that my blow off valve isn’t loud either. I don’t have any more exhaust drone either. No exhaust leaks. So far so good. My hood doesn’t get too hot to touch with your hand. My under hood temps “feel” about normal or the same to me. I didn’t measure so I don’t have any concrete data. At this point it feels like it added 50-75hp and a bunch of tq. She drives very very good. If you guys want I’ll post a quick pull video.
Took her out on the road. Had it running fat. Get on it, no boost. Cutout. Ok. Still too rich.
O btw.....it’s much quieter but kinda sounds like ****. Like a grand national. O well. Flock it.
Anyways. Lean it out a few times. Finally get some boost. Guage said 5psi. I didn’t run it out. Afr was in the low 10’s. Still too rich. Scanner and map sensor said 3.5psi. Probably more accurate than a $25 China guage. Time for an upgrade. I made three back to back pulls. I only pulled it to 5700rpm and 70% throttle. No boost creep I saw. Intake air temps got to 189f. Yea. I know. I know. It is very hot today too. I won’t keep gouging on it. Plus it running rich probably didn’t help. I do need to change my fuel pump so I’m dancing with the devil right now. Im going to stay out of it till I get the pump.
I’m pleased that my blow off valve isn’t loud either. I don’t have any more exhaust drone either. No exhaust leaks. So far so good. My hood doesn’t get too hot to touch with your hand. My under hood temps “feel” about normal or the same to me. I didn’t measure so I don’t have any concrete data. At this point it feels like it added 50-75hp and a bunch of tq. She drives very very good. If you guys want I’ll post a quick pull video.
Last edited by Kfxguy; 05-08-2019 at 03:39 PM.
08-31-2018, 05:55 PM
#108
Ok. I haven’t thought about videoing while tuning because I’ve been watching gauges. I did video a short throttle blip. I’m nervous about the tuning so bare with me.
I’ve decided what I’m doing for cooling for now. I’m do a water/meth injection using my washer tank and washer pump. McMaster-Carr sells different size misting nozzles. If anyone is interested in whim going to do then speak up. I’ll post about it.
Video
I’ve decided what I’m doing for cooling for now. I’m do a water/meth injection using my washer tank and washer pump. McMaster-Carr sells different size misting nozzles. If anyone is interested in whim going to do then speak up. I’ll post about it.
Video
09-08-2018, 08:58 PM
#110
Looks good. Throw a cutout in that straight section 45* right at the back of the tranny before that last bend going to the muffler, u will pickup a good bit of spool and power.
With the water meth you need a check valve that keeps the fluid from pushing back through the nozzle/line and pump causing a false spray. It will empty the line it possibly suck it out during boost or vacuum of air rushing past the nozzle. It would be easier to buy a pump and nozzle from cooling mist
or a devils own nozzle and a pump of your choice as the nozzles have internal check valves. I like the AEM nozzle kit, I think it was $60 but comes with a Billet nozzle holder, 3 nozzles, and some other stuff. You can get 10 or 20ft or AEM meth tuning for $15 or so on summit. The pump is important, high pressure low volume. You have alot of heat to dissapate being your only source of intercooling /detonation control. I’ve always found water meth to be a substitute to a A2W or A2A intercooling for detonation control. Unless your spraying pure meth your not gona see huge drop in IAT temps. Your going to be mostly seeing 150+ and then boost and spray and see 10-20* drop may for the 1-5s your in boost. You could also use an AC controlled intercooler (shorter and compact) and hooks into your AC to bring the temps down.
With the water meth you need a check valve that keeps the fluid from pushing back through the nozzle/line and pump causing a false spray. It will empty the line it possibly suck it out during boost or vacuum of air rushing past the nozzle. It would be easier to buy a pump and nozzle from cooling mist
or a devils own nozzle and a pump of your choice as the nozzles have internal check valves. I like the AEM nozzle kit, I think it was $60 but comes with a Billet nozzle holder, 3 nozzles, and some other stuff. You can get 10 or 20ft or AEM meth tuning for $15 or so on summit. The pump is important, high pressure low volume. You have alot of heat to dissapate being your only source of intercooling /detonation control. I’ve always found water meth to be a substitute to a A2W or A2A intercooling for detonation control. Unless your spraying pure meth your not gona see huge drop in IAT temps. Your going to be mostly seeing 150+ and then boost and spray and see 10-20* drop may for the 1-5s your in boost. You could also use an AC controlled intercooler (shorter and compact) and hooks into your AC to bring the temps down.
09-08-2018, 09:06 PM
#111
Looks good. Throw a cutout in that straight section 45* right at the back of the tranny before that last bend going to the muffler, u will pickup a good bit of spool and power.
With the water meth you need a check valve that keeps the fluid from pushing back through the nozzle/line and pump causing a false spray. It will empty the line it possibly suck it out during boost or vacuum of air rushing past the nozzle. It would be easier to buy a pump and nozzle from cooling mist
or a devils own nozzle and a pump of your choice as the nozzles have internal check valves. I like the AEM nozzle kit, I think it was $60 but comes with a Billet nozzle holder, 3 nozzles, and some other stuff. You can get 10 or 20ft or AEM meth tuning for $15 or so on summit. The pump is important, high pressure low volume. You have alot of heat to dissapate being your only source of intercooling /detonation control. I’ve always found water meth to be a substitute to a A2W or A2A intercooling for detonation control. Unless your spraying pure meth your not gona see huge drop in IAT temps. Your going to be mostly seeing 150+ and then boost and spray and see 10-20* drop may for the 1-5s your in boost. You could also use an AC controlled intercooler (shorter and compact) and hooks into your AC to bring the temps down.
With the water meth you need a check valve that keeps the fluid from pushing back through the nozzle/line and pump causing a false spray. It will empty the line it possibly suck it out during boost or vacuum of air rushing past the nozzle. It would be easier to buy a pump and nozzle from cooling mist
or a devils own nozzle and a pump of your choice as the nozzles have internal check valves. I like the AEM nozzle kit, I think it was $60 but comes with a Billet nozzle holder, 3 nozzles, and some other stuff. You can get 10 or 20ft or AEM meth tuning for $15 or so on summit. The pump is important, high pressure low volume. You have alot of heat to dissapate being your only source of intercooling /detonation control. I’ve always found water meth to be a substitute to a A2W or A2A intercooling for detonation control. Unless your spraying pure meth your not gona see huge drop in IAT temps. Your going to be mostly seeing 150+ and then boost and spray and see 10-20* drop may for the 1-5s your in boost. You could also use an AC controlled intercooler (shorter and compact) and hooks into your AC to bring the temps down.
i forgot. Change of plans. I could keep it as is and maybe run the meth but after driving it to work a couple times and noting my iats in the heat of the day and in traffic, I’m putting an air to air on it. My buddy had a really nice intercooler and told me to take it. So I ordered a piping kit the other day. We shall see how that goes. I’m spoiled with the power it has below 110f iat.
09-08-2018, 10:16 PM
#112
Teching In
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Awesome build man! I saw your doing a hell of a job for your first time. I'm jealous of all your cool tools. It's like you have your own machine shop lol. Only place I can use a mill and lathe is at work. Get that thing lined out and give us a track video!
09-08-2018, 10:43 PM
#113
Yea it’s almost like I have a machine shop. I have just enough tools to do whatever I need. If I don’t have it, sometimes I’ll make it. I guess I like making things
09-17-2018, 10:18 AM
#116
Ok fellas. I decided it was time for an intercooler. I didn’t expect this to take all weekend but I did because I was very picky at getting things to have clearance without rattling or touching. I also did not want to cut my frame rails and go through that. All I had to do was bend a few pinch welds and cut a hole in front of the driver front tire/fender so the pipe and air filter can go through. If I ever decide to remove the turbo it would be easy to put a cover plate over the hole. My iats are way way lower and I turned the boost up to 6psi for now. It pulls pretty dang hard now.
Had to shorten the intake. And I had to cut that groove in it. Talk about scary having that curved end whipping around
Had to snake the radiator hose around it
My super professional welds. Not! But I’m learning
Top view. Had to trim the radiator cover a tad. I really didn’t want to cut on it but I had no choice
To the unsuspecting you can’t really tell it’s there. Sleeperrrrr
Had to shorten the intake. And I had to cut that groove in it. Talk about scary having that curved end whipping around
Had to snake the radiator hose around it
My super professional welds. Not! But I’m learning
Top view. Had to trim the radiator cover a tad. I really didn’t want to cut on it but I had no choice
To the unsuspecting you can’t really tell it’s there. Sleeperrrrr
09-17-2018, 02:49 PM
#118
yesterday on my first drive rive I saw a max of 117f after smashing it about three times. This morning which it was about 75f outside, I saw about 84-85f cruising. Get caught in traffic it was 88-90f. Start moving it would drop. Today at lunch it’s about 95f and humid. Nasty hot. It got 135f in traffic but that’s after a heat soak. I start moving and the temps come down. I saw they sell some nice little 7” puller fans. I could put two on there to help cool at low speeds. Opinions? I’m about to post another thread in boost controller options. It’s time I start thinking of that. I can spin them in second gear at 45mph. That’s nto5r and I’m putting regular tires on to cruise. It’s going to be pretty dumb so I need to be able to turn it down.
09-17-2018, 03:13 PM
#119
yesterday on my first drive rive I saw a max of 117f after smashing it about three times. This morning which it was about 75f outside, I saw about 84-85f cruising. Get caught in traffic it was 88-90f. Start moving it would drop. Today at lunch it’s about 95f and humid. Nasty hot. It got 135f in traffic but that’s after a heat soak. I start moving and the temps come down. I saw they sell some nice little 7” puller fans. I could put two on there to help cool at low speeds. Opinions? I’m about to post another thread in boost controller options. It’s time I start thinking of that. I can spin them in second gear at 45mph. That’s nto5r and I’m putting regular tires on to cruise. It’s going to be pretty dumb so I need to be able to turn it down.
Boost controllers are easy. Manual or electric...You can do a cheap manual "hallman" style for like $25 is on ebay. they require some tuning and driving/logging/adjusting. But your stuck on what you set it at and you can't change it easily and accurately. Electric you have a few choices, AEM truboost, Turbosmart eboost/eboost 2 etc. If your not willing to shell out $500 then your really stuck with the truboost or other cheaper EBCs. I rock the truboost and its the best thing I have done for my turbo. I run a spring that nets me 6-6.5psi (8.5psi Electric cutout open), with the truboost "off" (push of a button) it gives me those pressures. With the boost A setting I have it set at 50% duty and that nets me 11psi, Boost B setting at 70% nets me like 14-15psi. It also has a boost scramble mode which allows a custom 30s of boost control... like a kill mode. activate with a switch or something by grounding a wire and you go into scramble mode aka kill mode. Its a pretty sweet little gauge with max boost recall and I love it.
If you want more features than that your stepping up to a Eboost2 which are the best. You get lots and lots of features like boost by gear and I think it does meth controll or activation as well etc. If you want convience and full adjustability on the fly on a low/medium budget you go truboost (Less than $300, I paid like $200 off ebay with a 20% off coupon). If you want to spend $30 then get the MBS hallman style (ceramic ball) but you dont get easily controllable boost and its a low budget option. If you want the best and all the bells and whistles your going Eboost2.
If your car was mine I would leave the FMIC, get new MT street SS tires and go from there. If you want to go boost controller I would do truboost or Eboost2. I'm constantly switching my boost controller settings and activating/deactivating mine while driving as its just not needed to be on kill mode all the time lol.
09-17-2018, 03:28 PM
#120
At those temps I wouldnt even bother with the fans. They will be more of a restriction and not really benefit to much... 135*F isnt bad. You could do a small shot of water/meth if your really worried about the heat and detonation. I would leave it alone.
Boost controllers are easy. Manual or electric...You can do a cheap manual "hallman" style for like $25 is on ebay. they require some tuning and driving/logging/adjusting. But your stuck on what you set it at and you can't change it easily and accurately. Electric you have a few choices, AEM truboost, Turbosmart eboost/eboost 2 etc. If your not willing to shell out $500 then your really stuck with the truboost or other cheaper EBCs. I rock the truboost and its the best thing I have done for my turbo. I run a spring that nets me 6-6.5psi (8.5psi Electric cutout open), with the truboost "off" (push of a button) it gives me those pressures. With the boost A setting I have it set at 50% duty and that nets me 11psi, Boost B setting at 70% nets me like 14-15psi. It also has a boost scramble mode which allows a custom 30s of boost control... like a kill mode. activate with a switch or something by grounding a wire and you go into scramble mode aka kill mode. Its a pretty sweet little gauge with max boost recall and I love it.
If you want more features than that your stepping up to a Eboost2 which are the best. You get lots and lots of features like boost by gear and I think it does meth controll or activation as well etc. If you want convience and full adjustability on the fly on a low/medium budget you go truboost (Less than $300, I paid like $200 off ebay with a 20% off coupon). If you want to spend $30 then get the MBS hallman style (ceramic ball) but you dont get easily controllable boost and its a low budget option. If you want the best and all the bells and whistles your going Eboost2.
If your car was mine I would leave the FMIC, get new MT street SS tires and go from there. If you want to go boost controller I would do truboost or Eboost2. I'm constantly switching my boost controller settings and activating/deactivating mine while driving as its just not needed to be on kill mode all the time lol.
Boost controllers are easy. Manual or electric...You can do a cheap manual "hallman" style for like $25 is on ebay. they require some tuning and driving/logging/adjusting. But your stuck on what you set it at and you can't change it easily and accurately. Electric you have a few choices, AEM truboost, Turbosmart eboost/eboost 2 etc. If your not willing to shell out $500 then your really stuck with the truboost or other cheaper EBCs. I rock the truboost and its the best thing I have done for my turbo. I run a spring that nets me 6-6.5psi (8.5psi Electric cutout open), with the truboost "off" (push of a button) it gives me those pressures. With the boost A setting I have it set at 50% duty and that nets me 11psi, Boost B setting at 70% nets me like 14-15psi. It also has a boost scramble mode which allows a custom 30s of boost control... like a kill mode. activate with a switch or something by grounding a wire and you go into scramble mode aka kill mode. Its a pretty sweet little gauge with max boost recall and I love it.
If you want more features than that your stepping up to a Eboost2 which are the best. You get lots and lots of features like boost by gear and I think it does meth controll or activation as well etc. If you want convience and full adjustability on the fly on a low/medium budget you go truboost (Less than $300, I paid like $200 off ebay with a 20% off coupon). If you want to spend $30 then get the MBS hallman style (ceramic ball) but you dont get easily controllable boost and its a low budget option. If you want the best and all the bells and whistles your going Eboost2.
If your car was mine I would leave the FMIC, get new MT street SS tires and go from there. If you want to go boost controller I would do truboost or Eboost2. I'm constantly switching my boost controller settings and activating/deactivating mine while driving as its just not needed to be on kill mode all the time lol.
Right now now I have a crappy eBay controller. It’s mounted under the hood but I move it inside.