Hello, I'm not planning on doing this anytime soon but I am considering getting one of those intake manifold water intercoolers and rotating(clocking) my procharger outlet to point towards the manifold and doing a very direct route to the intake manifold. I figure it will help with the response time of the procharger and just be cleaner.
I did a budget procharger build and kind of pieced everything together. I was low on funds near the end and used whatever intake piping I had laying around plus a few purchased pieces. I Frankensteined it together and it has a total of 30 hose clamps to give you an idea. Btw, all this is hidden unless you look under the front bumper, otherwise it looks like the default procharger kit.

What are your thoughts on the water intake setup?
how effective is a water intercooler vs air size as far as size comparison goes. I'm thinking about doing this mod somewhat sooner if I can put a tiny water intercooler between the intake and procharger but finding something small enough to fit would be challenging and something that small I don't think would be as effective as my larger air intercooler.
extra note. This is a street car so If I ever did go water, I would probably put a 5 gallon water tank in the trunk to avoid heat soak in stop and go traffic. Plus the weight in the trunk would help with traction and weight distribution.

 

What boost level and what head unit? Whats your current IAT, and IAT goal? The hi-ram intercoolers do work, some much better than others but you didn't specify which intake so just guessing.

You can setup the water pump to only run in higher boost and greatly simplify the installation, as you don't need a heat exchanger. Really most of the time you don't even need the pump on for street driving. I've been experimenting with using air/water cores without using any water and its working pretty well.

 

About 10 psi, d1sc. But if I were to go with a intake intercooler, It would probably be after college which means I would probably start running much more boost and therefore a different setup possibly.
I'm not set on a specific intake yet.
My IAT used to be around 180f as my engine bay got heat soaked, but then I drilled a hole in my engine bay and mounted the air filter outside the engine compartment. Now, I see usually ambient temperatures, in stop and go traffic, it gets about 20 degrees higher.
As far as IAT under boost, I haven't paid enough attention yet, usually paying more attention to a/f. I don't usually stay in boost for very long though.

 

For a daily I’d go air to air with e85 or meth injection if ethanol isn’t available. I have a D1x spinning max recommended impeller speed on 50 percent e and a large air to air. Iat’s aren’t a problem at all.

 

Same, spun a D1x to well over rated speed 75k or so, made dick for power but through a TR1245 it didnt get hot either.

 

I had a feeling the max recommended impeller speeds were conservative. It's a hell of a time to be alive when 900 rwhp is consider "dick for power" LOL

 

They dont even seem to wakeup unless you spin the crap out of them, if you stay under the max speed (which it only reaches for a second at max RPM) its lazy down low.

850 through an unlocked auto which I guess isn't bad, but when I'm used to chinese 80mm turbos making 1000+ a $7500 blower kit making less kinda sucks.

 

I totally get what your saying just having fun. I’m spinning just at the recommended max impeller speed of 62g if my math is correct. 8.25 crank pulley, 3.7 blower pulley, 4.1 step up ratio, and 6800 rpm shift point.

377 with 10.6 to 1 compression and tiny cathedral port heads isn’t lazy at all. I got my kit for just over 6g from Bob. It doesn’t make that turbo power but it’s excellent for a daily in my opinion. I noticed a decent seat of the pants gain when I did the 3.85 to 3.7 pulley change a few days ago which would suggest the blower isn’t done making power yet. Pretty amazing blower if your goals don’t require 1000 plus at the wheels.

 

There is a method with using a wastegate where you spin the impeller at max rpm but you limit your boost to be lower through the wastegate. That way you hit max boost sooner. Only works if your not already pushing the procharger to it's limits though.
I've read lots of articles about it. Seems to only produce positive results when you perfectly match the correct wastegate size to your setup.

 

My iat's are fine and I'm using e85, I was just thinking of more down the line as a way to clean up my setup and make my piping more direct. I also was wondering if using a tiny water intercooler but with a giant water supply could be as effective as a much larger air intercooler by comparison. In other words, if anyone has any experience with this, usually, how much smaller can a water intercooler be compared to a air intercooler and be just as effective assuming you have a large water supply and don't have to worry about heat soak.

Plus, if I went this far out and got a intake manifold water intercooler, I would probably also get one of those a/c chiller setups, (like the demon) where the ac cools the intercooler fluid.

 

This is a bad idea in my opinion. If you want more boost at low rpm while limiting peak boost then you really chose the wrong power adder. I think guys do this to add low rpm torque while limiting peak boost thinking they are being easier on things, but they are actually being harder on everything. More boost down low is harder on everything then higher boost at high rpm. Then you add in that you are always spinning the blower faster causing more heat at all times.

Take this example you pulley for 8 psi peak, but want more down low without going over 8 psi peak. So you use a waste gate and pulley for 12 psi to get more boost down low while still only seeing 8 up top. I say screw all that the 12 psi above 6000 rpm isn't that hard on things so just pulley for 12 psi to get what you want down low and let that procharger do it's thing building power linearly all the way up. I totally get what you are saying I was a little unimpressed with a procharger at 8 psi. I became a fan when I started pushing 14 psi though. It's still not the same as a turbo or big roots at those lower rpms or have the insane power a turbo is capable of, but it's still more than you are likely to be able to use down low anyway on the street.

Another example: My only track visit with my current setup was on an unprepped track. Unprepped as in no glue, but not scraped. It had lots of rubber on it so way better than virgin concrete, but no glue. I was leaving off idle and rolling into it easy with timing dropping down to 8.5 as I came into boost and ramping back up to 15.5 peak above 6000 rpm. I was still slightly spinning all the way through 1st gear. Adding more down low would do nothing for me I took timing out to make it easier to drive. I was still able to keep that high rpm power where I could use it even though it can easily take 17 degrees timing on E85. Point being the prochargers strength is it's linear predictable power delivery making it easier to drive. Don't try to make it do something it wasn't designed for.

 

I agree with you for the most part as far as a street car goes and how it pertains to my situation, which is why I never did it.

 

IMO before spending money on a water intercooler I would instead work on cleaning up your intercooler piping.

Thirty clamps, if we assume two clamps per connection, means you have 15 silicone connections. Each of those connections slows down and disrupts the air flow along the outer wall of the piping.

Take at look at the inside of the opposing pipe end at each silicone connection. Then compare the inside of the opposing pipe ends if they were welded together in lieu of using silicone connectors. Never mind the chance for boost leak at each silicone connection as well as the weight of the silicone connectors and band clamps.

You don't mention what vehicle. On my Procharged Z28 I have a total of eight silicone connectors and I plan to reduce that by at least three, possibly four. This change will remove four opposing pipe ends which when welded together will eliminate 4 restrictions to the airflow.

This is one that will be removed. There is no need for a silicone connector here. I need to weld the two pipes together and eliminate the restriction.

 

I think you missed something in my first post but the purpose of getting a water cooler setup is to clean up my intercooler piping and greatly shorten the pipe length and etc. You can loosen up some of the bolts on the procharger and actually rotate the outlet 360 degrees. I wanted to face it towards the intake manifold and do a very short pipe with a intake manifold that's water cooled vs my setup or the original Procharger setup originally designed for this car. Should make the overall path that air has to travel much shorter. Heck I might be able to get away with no watercooler since I use e85 and my air filter pulls in cold air directly outside the car, but I'd rather play it safe.
2005 gto

 

[QUOTE=dlandsvZ28;20295450]IMO before spending money on a water intercooler I would instead work on cleaning up your intercooler piping.

Thirty clamps, if we assume two clamps per connection, means you have 15 silicone connections. Each of those connections slows down and disrupts the air flow along the outer wall of the piping.

Take at look at the inside of the opposing pipe end at each silicone connection. Then compare the inside of the opposing pipe ends if they were welded together in lieu of using silicone connectors. Never mind the chance for boost leak at each silicone connection as well as the weight of the silicone connectors and band clamps.

You don't mention what vehicle. On my Procharged Z28 I have a total of eight silicone connectors and I plan to reduce that by at least three, possibly four. This change will remove four opposing pipe ends which when welded together will eliminate 4 restrictions to the airflow.

This is one that will be removed. There is no need for a silicone connector here. I need to weld the two pipes together and eliminate the restriction.

I'd look real hard at replacing that TB rubber elbow with a metal bend as well, they tend to balloon under pressure, at least mine did lol.

 

Most boost I will run will be 12-14 lbs if that. Current boost is 8 lbs.

The 90 elbow to the stock TB is 4 ply and a black identical spare is even stiffer. Am re-configuring the charge pipes to take advantage of the ATI Prochargers fbody FMIC that arrived today (nice piece). So will install the black connector to the TB later. Hope the ATI FMIC is as efficient as claimed.

The connector nearest driver side will be removed and the two piped welded together. Same for two other joins.

If you are aware of a 3 to four inch transition 90 degree aluminum elbow PM me. The issue with most 90 degree aluminum elbows is the larger bend radius compared to the silicone connectors that have smaller bend radius. Like the GTO space is limited to get everything to fit and be efficient as possible.

Too bad ATI decided to build their charge pipes out of steel compared to aluminum (heavy and it rusts inside). I suppose I could use their metal 90 4 inch transition at the TB and use the their connector to butt up to my three inch aluminum pipe.

https://shop.brutespeed.com/ATI-AIGJ...4-311-Tube.htm

 

When I did my procharger budget build, I bought a p1sc kit on craigslist that was originally from a truck for $800. Just came with the head unit, truck bracket, intercooler and various silicone couplings and a few metal pipes. Then, later I saw a d1sc head unit by itself listed for $1000. Guy had a ctsv but originally bought if from a guy with a GTO. He gave me the gto intercooler and a few unique gto pipes for free when I bought the d1sc from him which were all powder coated black. I later sold the p1sc kit for a $1000 but kept the coupling/pipes. I used all these couplings to build my setup along with a few I purchased online. There's not as many turns as it sounds like for 30 clamps. I just had to cut a lot of silicone couplings and band lots of parts together cause these parts weren't long enough or didn't have the right turn ratio.
Anyway with this in mind, you could buy two 90 degree metal elbows, cut the portions out with the sharpest turns and weld them together to make a 90 degree that fits. Either that or get amazon prime for free shipping/ returns and start ordering lol.

 

When I say bend radius and space required compare these examples below.




I have already been thru the experience of using the steel charge pipes. Steel rusts inside and is much heavier that silicone, rubber, or aluminum. Stainless is more expensive.

IMO you must have a silicone or rubber connector at the throttle body. I don't think you can get a good enough seal with metal to metal. So for the throttle body I chose silicone for the connection instead of an aluminum 90 elbow since you still need silicone or rubber to mate to the throttle body. Plus you have some engine shake and vibration at the throttle body, so silicone or rubber IMO is the better choice.

Redundant statement but I still can't figure why ATI chose steel instead of aluminum for their Fbody FMIC charge pipe kit. Someone should duplicate their charge pipe kit with aluminum piping. That's what I have done using only five connectors (Fbody - Procharged).

 

Yeah, my bypass pipe keeps rusting, all my other pipes are stainless or powdercoated. I'm actually soaking it in vinegar right now, was thinking about painting it but feeling a bit lazy right now.

 

I asked if my original steel pipe could be powder coated. Was told that they could not guarantee that the entire inside wall of the pipes would get coated or not flake off.

I actually bought the S pipe from ATI (part of the Fbody FMIC charge pipe kit). On the Fbody you need an S pipe on the driver side upright pipe to navigate thru a small hole up to the throttle body. The S pipe was powder coated on the outside but had already started to rust on the inside. It was only about 18 inches long. Come to find out an aluminum S bend pipe from OCX was nearly identical to the ATI S bend. So I have used it instead.