Evil F1 SS

My next Ls1 build will be a streetable turbo set up.

mdhmi

iTrader: (1)

The $19K that LPE charges is high, but, also consider what you get with that price..

# Lingenfelter CNC ported cylinder heads
# Three angle valve job, checking of spring tensions & heights
# LPE custom camshaft
# Two Garrett true ball bearing turbochargers
# Two high efficiency air to air chargecoolers
# Custom molded silicone air ducts
# 4 into 1 custom exhaust manifolds
# Two turbo outlet adapters
# Turbocharger scavenge pump
# Turbo oil drain reservoir
# Two K&N 360 degree conical air filters
# Heat shields and stainless clamps
# Professional installation, testing and tuning
# Port matched intake manifold
# Ported and polished throttle body
# GHL stainless steel exhaust system
# Turbocharger water feed and return hoses
# Turbocharger oil feed and return hoses
# Gaskets and fasteners
# Chassis dyno report
# 2 year/24,000 mile warranty

That is a heck of a lot more than you get with most vendors.

Mark

V8_DSM_V8again

Its not so much the small bore but the stroke... Yes there is an optimum balance of bore vs stroke vs cylinder head flow but if you run a 4g64 crank in a 4g63 (2.3) or build a 4g64 (2.4) you will get knock easier due to the stroke..

With forced induction long stroke = bad.. A big bore is ok provided you have the flow on both sides of the head for it to breathe right. I have entered full race head bench sheets into EA and you can hit the same specific outputs if you work hard enough to do it. It wont happen with a stroker, possible but some work with a stock stroke (350 3.48) and easy as hell with a shorter stroke (3.25 327)... Changing the bore size from the normal 4.0 up to a world products sized 4.2 does very little but change stroke 1/4" and adjust two engines bores so that they have the same displacement and it is a world of difference..

Oh and speedquest is probably sick of blowing apex seals...

1point3liter

Exactly what I was getting at.

BlwnTA

iTrader: (18)

How many runs before

V8_DSM_V8again

Probably alot with the right parts and prep...

A 250 shot on
STOCK BLOCK!
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/50452/index.html

It's all in the ignition timing, plug heat range and delivery system... Run the NX progressive controller and you will never give it too much because knock will make the system backoff or shut down. Direct port wet goes w/o saying... I'd run a second pump and a cell of VP116/C16 for fuel enrichment.

Polished cc's and smoothed out piston domes (no edges on eyebrows) to eliminate hot spots. Thick domes, lowered ring package, big *** H beams etc...

qqwqeqwrqwqtq

Well, it is so much the small bore. A small bore is much less prone to detonation than a large one. Small bores have a more efficient burn, which equals less emissions, less ignition advance requirements, and less chance of detonation.

There are obviously many more dynamics to it, but if you start combustion at the center of a 3.34 bore (4 valve head,centrally located plug, pent roof comb chamber) you will have much less chance of the end gases exploding (detonation) when compared to lighting off the mixture in a 4.0in bore and conventional 2 valve head.

V8_DSM_V8again

A agree with that but it is'nt the bore.. Its how the head and valve dimensions correspond to the bore. With a pentroof 4 valve you get tumble not swirl like a wedge head. If you enlarge everything to match the bore increase I can think of no scientific reason for anything to change other than power output. I cant test it in the realworld 4g63 to 4g63 because there is'nt enough room on the block to go that big. I'm sure some F1 big bore short stroke engines with pentroofs kick the g63's *** in.. Of the things that are controllable by most people in an engine besides compression ratio/boost is piston speed. Faster at a given RPM = + ping and slower = -ping.

qqwqeqwrqwqtq

Lets look at it from an extreme.


An engine with a 1 inch bore vs one with an 8 inch bore.


Which one has a further distance for the flame front to travel, therefore making detonation more likely?

SpeedQuest TV

"Someone already answered this, but rotaries have 2.5 combustion cycles per revolution. your 1.3 liter is more like 3.2liter or so. a 2.0 liter 3 rotor is more like a 5 liter. Rotaries also produce a lot hotter exhaust gasses. The love turbos. You are comparing apples and oranges here."

I am not going to get into this debate with you of whether its 1.3 or 3.2 whatever. You may be looking abit ridculous though seeing how you screen name is 1point3liter

2nd- Im intersted in these engines b/c I dont deny the fact that they CAN make More HP, More torque,More reliably. I love the rotary but I have something in the works right now where I am needing something alittle different from everyone else. Im actually aiming to do a swap in another FD. With pretty much the same goals as this tread starter ~800-1k rwhp(Fairly reliably, when I say "Fairly" I mean as opposed to having to rebuild rotaries). Its basically came down to the 2jz/or a couple of performance V-8s, one being a ls6 427 conv running boost. I know for sure the 2JZ can make 1krwhp on boost with really no guess work. Plenty of people have accomplished this and the parts to do it are fairly well known. Thats why I came on this forum in search of the LSx gurus who have had years of knowledge with thier specialty engine.

3rd- INSOMNIAC: I am very much enjoying this thread as I have roughly the same goals. I look foward to your engine selection and to see the final results. Good luck.

1point3liter: Maybe I wasnt clear enough for you when I said I have built a few high hp rotaries(as well as some quick 6's & 4s. When I said I have been with rotaries for 4-5 years, I do not need to be quoted kit prices and be told how many injectors my car has. Im not fishing for anything. This was my first time posting on this forum, trying to be somewhat of a "helpful" participant, and you decided to try and poke at me, why???
And to try to say someone is "fishing" b/c I stated that I have probably almost doubled the hp that you had to make that 11.7 pass ( I ran faster on stock twins), is plain no good. Im all about explaining and talking to you about my setup, but not when you try to mock me my first time here.

As for the turbo pricing statements- I was just in disbelief at how many people are buying "kits" instead of putting them together yourself. You can get the exact same components from the manufactuers for far less instead of paying the high price of getting a company name stamped on. To add- No "kit" will ever perform as well as specific application components.

SpeedQuest TV

Oh and speedquest is probably sick of blowing apex seals...[/QUOTE]

Exactly the reason Im here- RELIABLE HIGH HORSEPOWER!!!

383838

iTrader: (1)

If you're seriously considering building 800+ rwhp from a Z06, budget $40,000-50,000 for the build. $15k+ in motor, tranny will grenade at least once, rear will grenade, $2k+ in fuel system, clutch, and on and on and on.....$8-10 for F1R setup, $14,000ish for twins, gauges, tuning, possibly a FAST/DFI (it can be done on a stock PCM but your tuner better be damn good). There is no single turbo system for a C5 capable of 800rwhp, not enough room for good header/downpipe/crossover design.

FYI, an 800rwhp C5 is pretty much useless on the street, trust me. Unless you're doing 80mph+ roll on races you're going to losing to heads/cam f-bodies. 800rwhp in a C5 will spin 315 Nitto drag radials at 120mph.

CHRISPY

Space limitations for pulley size

V8_DSM_V8again

Easy the 8" because you can't fit valves and a spark plug in a 1" bore.

Yes the smaller the bore the less distance... However with the type of airflow you have with a pentroof 4 valve means so long as the roof and valves are the right size for the bore the effect on potential for detonation is minimal. Furthermore more bore = more valve curtain area. F1 engines have big bores for this reason..

1point3liter

I'm not looking for a debate. I was tempted to not reply even, but you did poke at my username..

My username is 1point3liter because i also used to be into rotaries. I don't waste my time with them anymore, but have kept the name half as a joke, half because.. well... I've used it so long and on so many forums that it's who people reconize me as. I appreciate your concern. lol

How about we all bench race.
...and you don't know what I have in the works either.
...I know so and so, and he has so and so.
...I got to sit in so an so's car.



So you now agree that kits are comparitively priced?

Many of us do build our own kits. When you asked about the kit prices it was implying that people were stupid for paying the high prices and rx7 people aren't. I pointed out that it's the same no matter what kind of car you have.



You came here with the "your insulting my intellegence" attitude, others I'm sure agree. I just bit on your "lure". I'm sure others can contest that this is the first time I've given anyone a hard time... You came across as if you were putting down ls1 owners/engines/and turbo kits.

Just loose the attitude and there won't be a problem

I've also run faster on my current setup and stock twins even. The car was on street tires, look at the mph. Since my last trip to the 1/4 track I've made a 103mph pass in at the local 1/8th mile track (car picks up 30mph on the bigend). 133mph should point out that the car is a bit quicker that 11.7. (this is my "your insulting my intellegence" attitude) jk

Not everyone is able to fab their own kit, so they have to buy someone else's already built kit. Don't look down on them because of it.

Anyways. no hard feelings.. lets get back on topic.

1point3liter

I'm with you on this one...

INSOMNIAC

I couldn't care less for rotary engines and RX-7's now. Yeah, I like the technology involved in rotary engines and the HP you can get from such a small displacement but that doesn't help me get my Z06 to 800 RWHP.


Does anybody have contact phone for Lunati? Do they make custom pistons? What size -cc pistons would I need? Do they thermal coat the pistons? Should I get the pistons a little oversize the bore size.

383838

iTrader: (1)

Holy cow, just slow down and don't order anything. Let the engine builder order and handle the parts. You just find the right builder and let them do the legwork, just based on the -cc size question and the "should I get the pistons a little oversize" question just scream at me to tell you to stop and let the engine builder handle it. Yes, Lunati makes custom pistons, they do not thermal coat you get that done after the fact.

V8_DSM_V8again

I'd have an engine builder build the motor for you..

You need to rebuild a 2hp brigs right before you work on v8...

INSOMNIAC

I never said I knew much about building an engine. And I don't.

But I want to use the best parts out there and buy the parts myself to avoid any middle man mark-ups. There are really good deals on Lunati rotating assemblies and I don't want to pass on them and settle for less quality stuff. And if I go to a popular engine builder and ask him what parts to buy, he would probably not tell me as they prefer not to cook somebody else's steak. Well, non of them is their steak anyway (they don't manufacture pistons, cranks, etc) but they want to buy the steak for you put some $$ on it and sell it to you. Maybe another Corvette thing.

Just buying parts online out of state would save me a lot $$$ on fu*king 8.25% CA tax.

I guess I can buy stuff like the block, heads (I would need to know combustion chamber size though), ARP studs and bolts, intake manifold, TB, supercharger kit (mine would be somewhat custom though), etc.

I need to take engine building 101.