Intercooler
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TECH Apprentice
Joined: Sep 2013
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Intercooler Wouldn't a WTA intercooler work better than a ATA even without the ice? It looks like to me if you were street driving that it would cool the air temps better at a stop light or in traffic. Other than having to run a rear water tank and the plumbing to it, I'd think it'd be worth the trouble. I was thinking of doing this on my build and using a bilge pump in the tank and running some type of heat exchanger with a separate fan. Anyone on here build their own system?
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 222
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From: Dayton, OH
Yes, as you said, depending on the demand for cooling.
Water has much more capacity to carry heat and, if the A2W core is good and well done, will pull more heat out of the charge air. The other end, getting the heat out of the water, is the consideration. Drag or roll racing where the heat occurs only for a short time, you can get the heat out of the water. If you are running the FI system longer, the water temp rises and it takes longer to get the water temp down. Until you do it does not cool the charge air as much.
And yes, people have DIY'd a A2W system. You can buy the individual parts, heat exchanger, radiator, pump, tank and so on. The tricky part is the water and charge air plumbing.
Water has much more capacity to carry heat and, if the A2W core is good and well done, will pull more heat out of the charge air. The other end, getting the heat out of the water, is the consideration. Drag or roll racing where the heat occurs only for a short time, you can get the heat out of the water. If you are running the FI system longer, the water temp rises and it takes longer to get the water temp down. Until you do it does not cool the charge air as much.
And yes, people have DIY'd a A2W system. You can buy the individual parts, heat exchanger, radiator, pump, tank and so on. The tricky part is the water and charge air plumbing.
Last edited by SteveJewels; Nov 21, 2022 at 06:48 AM.
I had a chevelle I pieced together a W/A system, used a small heat exc. in front, small water tank, and the IC'er. I had the pump come on under boost, but prob having it come on by water temps would have been better. Worked well, not as well as having an ice tank, but temps seemed to be more stable than up/down with an A/A. Obs it wasn't going to be cooler than ambient air, lol.
I ran my A2W setup all last summer and it was hands down better than any A2A I've used, ambient temps ranged from 65-75 degrees during most drives.
The data was gathered while using a RIFE High Speed IAT so I have actual real time visibility on its benefits.
Setup is consisted of a 2-3 gallon reservoir in the back, 1" lines, Rule 2000 pump, and Frozen Boost 2,000HP cooler.
With ambient temp water only, the highest my IAT's ever got was 110 degrees when in traffic but under WOT at 10 lbs. of boost my IAT's would actually drop about 25-30 degrees, my guess is because the turbo was moving a larger volume of air, be really curious to see what it does with 20 lbs.
During cruises, I leave the pump A2W off, IAT's will still stay low, I turn the pump on a minute or so before making a hit to pull the latent heat out of the cooler, make the hit, wait a few minutes, then turn it back off for cruising home.
Keeps the Rule pump happy as some seem to have issues running them constant duty.
Can't wait to see what a tank full of ice water will do.
The data was gathered while using a RIFE High Speed IAT so I have actual real time visibility on its benefits.
Setup is consisted of a 2-3 gallon reservoir in the back, 1" lines, Rule 2000 pump, and Frozen Boost 2,000HP cooler.
With ambient temp water only, the highest my IAT's ever got was 110 degrees when in traffic but under WOT at 10 lbs. of boost my IAT's would actually drop about 25-30 degrees, my guess is because the turbo was moving a larger volume of air, be really curious to see what it does with 20 lbs.
During cruises, I leave the pump A2W off, IAT's will still stay low, I turn the pump on a minute or so before making a hit to pull the latent heat out of the cooler, make the hit, wait a few minutes, then turn it back off for cruising home.
Keeps the Rule pump happy as some seem to have issues running them constant duty.
Can't wait to see what a tank full of ice water will do.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2013
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I was going to have it come on under boost so the pump doesn't run all the time. What are you all using for intercoolers? This is a budget deal so I was going to look on ebay and see what I could find.
There is pros and cons to each, anyone who doesn’t think so is a fool
an adequate high quality A2A core in good airflow is honestly going to be hard to beat in the true street arena
and that is coming from someone with a very successful A2W setup
an adequate high quality A2A core in good airflow is honestly going to be hard to beat in the true street arena
and that is coming from someone with a very successful A2W setup
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Joined: Nov 2016
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From: switzerland
keep in mind the water-air cooler will soak up heat whenever the car is not moving, like on a track day and takes a few minutes of driving to cool down again. (insulating didnt help much.) good for the street though. pump must run all the time. what i do is switch the fan and pump between series/parallel.
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Verdad Gallardo Depends on the budget. A cheap A2W will work much better than the typical cheap A2A in my experience. I've seen the huge A2A garrett cores keep temps darn near ambient at BIG boost.... but they aren't cheap.
A cheap "1000 hp" ebay A2W core with a 5 gallon tank, no ice, no "radiator" worked better than my Treadstone 1245 A2A... and was cheaper. IC pump turned with a boost switch.
A cheap "1000 hp" ebay A2W core with a 5 gallon tank, no ice, no "radiator" worked better than my Treadstone 1245 A2A... and was cheaper. IC pump turned with a boost switch.
Last edited by Forcefed86; Dec 7, 2022 at 12:41 PM.
Disclaimer - I've never had an a/w setup.
But people I know who are more knowledgeable on this stuff than me will tend to agree that a a/w setup will work better when it comes to starting line inlet air temps for racing. Launching from a light or on a track the a/a setup will be hotter at the hit.
Maybe there is a point where a good a/a is as good as a/w like when rolling but I don't know.
John
Currently rocking a $1100 shearer a/a lol
But people I know who are more knowledgeable on this stuff than me will tend to agree that a a/w setup will work better when it comes to starting line inlet air temps for racing. Launching from a light or on a track the a/a setup will be hotter at the hit.
Maybe there is a point where a good a/a is as good as a/w like when rolling but I don't know.
John
Currently rocking a $1100 shearer a/a lol
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Joined: Nov 2016
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From: switzerland
in the end its simple. we just have to know what we are talking about.
street: water cooler is superior. it will cool down to (nearly) ambient and will keep temp at very low levels during the occasional hit.
track day: water not so good, heats up while in the pits. (i tried to hook up and additional battery and let the pump and fan run, too complicated obviously.)
track: water cooler is inferior. combined eficiency loss of two coolers. you are on the gas most of the time, braking is short.
drag racing: i know very little about it, but if rules allow you to have a tank of "supercooled" liquid then this is obviously the way to go. also if you manage to keep the tank at ambient when waiting. (i have never seen a car with an additional tank, just read about it.)
street: water cooler is superior. it will cool down to (nearly) ambient and will keep temp at very low levels during the occasional hit.
track day: water not so good, heats up while in the pits. (i tried to hook up and additional battery and let the pump and fan run, too complicated obviously.)
track: water cooler is inferior. combined eficiency loss of two coolers. you are on the gas most of the time, braking is short.
drag racing: i know very little about it, but if rules allow you to have a tank of "supercooled" liquid then this is obviously the way to go. also if you manage to keep the tank at ambient when waiting. (i have never seen a car with an additional tank, just read about it.)
in the end its simple. we just have to know what we are talking about.
street: water cooler is superior. it will cool down to (nearly) ambient and will keep temp at very low levels during the occasional hit.
track day: water not so good, heats up while in the pits. (i tried to hook up and additional battery and let the pump and fan run, too complicated obviously.)
track: water cooler is inferior. combined eficiency loss of two coolers. you are on the gas most of the time, braking is short.
drag racing: i know very little about it, but if rules allow you to have a tank of "supercooled" liquid then this is obviously the way to go. also if you manage to keep the tank at ambient when waiting. (i have never seen a car with an additional tank, just read about it.)
street: water cooler is superior. it will cool down to (nearly) ambient and will keep temp at very low levels during the occasional hit.
track day: water not so good, heats up while in the pits. (i tried to hook up and additional battery and let the pump and fan run, too complicated obviously.)
track: water cooler is inferior. combined eficiency loss of two coolers. you are on the gas most of the time, braking is short.
drag racing: i know very little about it, but if rules allow you to have a tank of "supercooled" liquid then this is obviously the way to go. also if you manage to keep the tank at ambient when waiting. (i have never seen a car with an additional tank, just read about it.)
I agree and could see the water temp rising after each run, but I think this is also dependent on boost level and compressor discharge temp.
For me I'm using a fairly large turbo and not pushing it very hard, so my IAT's actually cool down when making a hit on the street which I assume is due to the added airflow through my intercooler.
All the guys I know who run A2W at the strip add ice before making a pass, drain the tank most of the way back in the pits, refill, then add ice before heading to the lanes.
I'd assume this method gets you the most benefit out of an A2W system but of course requires more planning, bring lots of ice in a chest for example.
in the end its simple. we just have to know what we are talking about.
street: water cooler is superior. it will cool down to (nearly) ambient and will keep temp at very low levels during the occasional hit.
track day: water not so good, heats up while in the pits. (i tried to hook up and additional battery and let the pump and fan run, too complicated obviously.)
track: water cooler is inferior. combined eficiency loss of two coolers. you are on the gas most of the time, braking is short.
drag racing: i know very little about it, but if rules allow you to have a tank of "supercooled" liquid then this is obviously the way to go. also if you manage to keep the tank at ambient when waiting. (i have never seen a car with an additional tank, just read about it.)
street: water cooler is superior. it will cool down to (nearly) ambient and will keep temp at very low levels during the occasional hit.
track day: water not so good, heats up while in the pits. (i tried to hook up and additional battery and let the pump and fan run, too complicated obviously.)
track: water cooler is inferior. combined eficiency loss of two coolers. you are on the gas most of the time, braking is short.
drag racing: i know very little about it, but if rules allow you to have a tank of "supercooled" liquid then this is obviously the way to go. also if you manage to keep the tank at ambient when waiting. (i have never seen a car with an additional tank, just read about it.)
Yeah what @The ****** said.
For class racing the cars I helped (Essary, Manna) both ran 5 gallon tanks and we'd run a mix of water and ice before a pass, then drain a bunch but not all the water before the next pass.
Ice/Water mix > straight water.
For class racing the cars I helped (Essary, Manna) both ran 5 gallon tanks and we'd run a mix of water and ice before a pass, then drain a bunch but not all the water before the next pass.
Ice/Water mix > straight water.
Yeah what @The ****** said.
For class racing the cars I helped (Essary, Manna) both ran 5 gallon tanks and we'd run a mix of water and ice before a pass, then drain a bunch but not all the water before the next pass.
Ice/Water mix > straight water.
For class racing the cars I helped (Essary, Manna) both ran 5 gallon tanks and we'd run a mix of water and ice before a pass, then drain a bunch but not all the water before the next pass.
Ice/Water mix > straight water.
Now I realize of course that's not ideal on a max effort race car but for a streetcar it works quite well.
Is that the lizard skin coating on that tank @Pro Stock John ?
If it is does it completely block condensation as others have claimed?
Yes it's lizard skin. I don't remember it sweating like stainless would. I can ask Manna for more info if you are thinking of doing it.
The stainless tank in another guy's car we'd race with sweated like a MFr, we used to keep a towel under it and still wipe it off.
The stainless tank in another guy's car we'd race with sweated like a MFr, we used to keep a towel under it and still wipe it off.
Yes it's lizard skin. I don't remember it sweating like stainless would. I can ask Manna for more info if you are thinking of doing it.
The stainless tank in another guy's car we'd race with sweated like a MFr, we used to keep a towel under it and still wipe it off.
The stainless tank in another guy's car we'd race with sweated like a MFr, we used to keep a towel under it and still wipe it off.
