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1) The 210s have a fair amount of nonlinear behavior at very short pulse widths. With proper characterization data, we can account for this in the GM ECU with the "short pulse adder" table. Most standalones (Like the Holley) have no way to account for this, so you are forced to screw up VE surface in several places (idle, cruise) as a result of the nonlinear injector response. Injectors that are more linear make tuning much more consistent in these simpler ECU control strategies. Also, a lower flow rate injector will have a slightly larger pulse width that "spreads out" the fuel delivery at idle rather than delivering a "slug" of fuel to the port that may have trouble evaporating and burning clean.
3) Most aftermarket rails are 5/8" ID now, but they usually have a -8ORB thread on the end. There is no issue feeding each one with a -8AN line (1/2"). It's just nice to have a little extra internal volume so that individual pulses are better absorbed.
6) The larger the turbine (or higher numerical A/r), the less it needs to divert to the wastegate when trying to control boost. If the turbine is on the small side, you will need more wastegate flow to avoid excessive backpressure and boost creep. Running small-ish turbines is not the most efficient way to go, but it certainly can work.
I have seen people make ~800hp on the GT30's that came with the base C5/C6 APS kits and 1000hp with the GT35's in the Z06 kit. You actually have a decent amount of turbo(s) there.
Ideally, I would have liked to have done a -08 Y feed off to each rail, but I didn't have the room or budget so my -08AN feed runs to the front of the passenger rail, -08AN line from the back to the back of the driver side rail and BRFPR mounted to the front of the driver side rail with the old -06AN feed now being used as the return.
The only "issue" I've encountered is I'm unable to get my fuel pressure below about 45psi base.
Now the BRFPR I'm using only goes down to 40 psi so maybe I need a different BRFPR or maybe my -06 return is providing a little restriction.
At this point I have no plans to address any of it.
Seems to work fine so far.
The 450s’ are a turbine style pump as opposed to the georotor 255 style and roller vane 044 style(AEM). Turbine pumps are much quieter by nature. My only issue with them is they never seem to put out their rated flow at elevated pressures.
You have to figure most set their base around 60psi, just like GM does. Add 20lbs of boost to that and you are at 80psi. The 450’s or 525 hell cat pumps hate pressures that high in my experience. At minimum run 40 base, (I’d run around 30). I’m not saying the 450’s can’ t make lots of power. Just that many are disappointed when their dual 450’s run out of steam MUCH earlier than they expected. Look at Matt Happel, he had to run 3 of them to hit 1000whp and ran some massive wiring and relays to each as well. Then you have guys running 2 AEM400’s and making 1300ish if plumbed correctly with good voltage. They just handle pressure better by design.
The 450’s also pull more amps. At 80psi the 450 runs 18A+ So 36ish amps for 2.
The AEM400 is around 14A at 80psi so around 28A.
Factor all that in and the AEM is the better performing pump all around.
I’d put the regulator wherever it is most handy. Ideally the shortest run back to the tank will have the least amount of restriction. So it will heat the fuel less. Yes, you should to run a vac line form the manifold back to the regulator.
With a surge tank the pump used to fill surge should be small. it will have low pressure and low amp draw. I use an OEM pump for reliability. I then staged my 2 AEM’s. So you basically have 1 AEM400 and 1 low amp pump going. The amp draw isn’t much. I used factory fuel pump wiring on the surge pump. And 10g wiring with 30a relays for each pump. I like to use TPS to activate the second pump. But you can do it anyway you want.
I’ve never run DBW setups. Can’t be of any help there.
more than one way to skin this cat i see. if the base pressure is set low, like between 30 and 40, how does that affect idle and cruise ability on the 210s? how is that set up in the holley software?
Low pressure means they flow less at a given pulse width. GM injectors are rated at 58psi these days. So if GM says the injector flows 22lbs. they mean it flows 22lbs at 58psi wide open. If you turn the pressure down, it simply flows less.
The 220lb injectors are rated at 43psi. So dropping to say 30 is going to turn your 220lb injectors into 183lb injectors. Still plenty of injector for most. The issue with large injectors is that its hard to get the pulse width low enough to idle at a stoich AFR. Lowering the pressure actually helps with this.
Downside of Lower pressure is poor atomization (crappy spray pattern). That’s why the industry standard went from 43 to 58. But when you are working with Bosch 220lb injectors (CNG injectors) they are basically squirt guns. They have no real spray pattern.
interesting. see, this is why i love this forum.
what about the filter screens that are said to be needed for the 210s? are they necessary? where do i install them?
Think you are talking about the injector inlet screens. The 210's don't have them because they are CNG injectors. (not sure if that's the case on the newer "tall" 210's?) Either way I never ran screens on the injectors. If you run a good 10 micron post filter you'll prob be fine. If you run some clunky huge micron SS filter you will get junk in your injectors. I really like the agricultural spin on style filters. They are 10 micron, flow a ton, cheap, and E85 compatible. I like the Goldenrod 595.
just checked out that filter. the working pressure of 50psi does scare me a bit. im assuming 3/4" size? is this the only filter you run? what about in the tank?
I've run dozens of them since 2012 over 80psi. Even tried to deform or blow one up with 120psi of shop air and it couldn't. Don't sweat the pressure rating. I split them yearly and have never had an issue. Yes, I use the 3/4. You can also use CIM-TEK stuff from trailer supply stores. Wix also has good filters.
I don't run a filter pre pump. The AEM units have screens on the inlets. and I didn't run any pre filter on the 4303. Not saying thats the best practice. But Its what I do. Never had an issue. I also don't put hundreds of miles on my cars.
This is the WIX unit I used on my last build. 2 AEM400's feeding it then the two outlets to the regulator and a single out from the regulator to the rail.
Last edited by Forcefed86; Mar 17, 2023 at 02:41 PM.
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