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Spraying onto the blades of the turbo has been myth busted plenty of times
As in it doesn't work or that it doesn't hurt the blades? I thought I read once that the blades collect the mist into droplets and throws it to the walls of the compressor housing pulling the liquid out of the air (aka not do $hit).
snow nozzle, 300psi pump about 2GPH flow. How else would you spray it that would cause blade issues?
Spraying it directly onto the blades from up close with an oversized nozzle and without an intake tube is about the only way. Even in a majority of situations, this still works just fine. The goal is to make sure the mist atomizes as well as possible before hitting the turbo inlet. Further away in a tube with a filter that can pull a slight vacuum inside will improve the atomization dramatically, even though its not usually necessary. I've sprayed directly into the front of an open atmosphere turbo inlet for long periods without any problems.
Cheap fuel makes the car easier to drive. I've heard that pre spray into the turbo will eat the impeller blades. Car would see 100 or so miles a week just driving to work, would love to take it on some longer trips 2hrs+.
interesting... I got a brand new 300psi snow pump for $80 off FB market place. I'm reusing old snow nozzles I had from another kit that I'm not using on my firebird. basically the pump is the only cost and a $25 devils own tank bulkhead adapter which I converted the stock wiper tank with. I was actually planning to run a relay and have the pump controlled by the Holley Term X. I can setup and output pretty easily. Currently using only one as PWM for brushless cooling fan. Are you saying that a 2PGH pump from snow on the 300psi pump will really put out 4GPH? It looks like snow rates them at Boost Cooler Hyper-Sonic Injector, 125ml/min@100psi or 2GPH, this is for size 2. I think the nozzle has the built in check valve as well as I tested it with an air gun. https://www.snowperformance.eu/en/wa...zzle-sno-n0200
I was thinking of tapping the cast elbow right after the BOV for the nozzle, that way it has 18-24" till it reaches the IAT sensor in the intake. I also thought that I would get some wiper fluid spraying out the BOV when it opens and the same if it was in the turbo filter head. Putting it in the filter means the turbo blades could get eaten up but then I would have it definitely coming out the BOV when its open.
this is the setup for the cold side.
Blade erosion is mostly band wagon BS from people with little or no experience. The only way you are hurting the blades is with giant water droplets IE no nozzle at all. Combined w tiny turbos spinning at 100k+ over long periods. Something similar to a small diesel engine. Your 70mm won’t spin fast enough to cause an issue and the nozzles used these days do a plenty good job, even at relatively low pressures. Nothing wrong with using a good pump if ya got it cheap. Its just overkill for 6lbs. And if you spray washer fluid (even at 4gph) at 6lbs it will likely hurt power and response.
Also totally pointless to buy that new fancy sensor if you are going to mist water on it. Water will not evaporate in your charge pipe at your temps. So the sensor will spit back completely useless bunk info. Good for nothing but letting you know the kit is “on”.
Pre turbo increases the eff. of the turbo itself. No other location can do that. No reason not to if you don’t run an intercooler. You also don't need to fight manifold pressure pre turbo. So you will atomize better. Turbo helps atomize as well. You don’t need to worry about the kit siphoning back into your intake/charge pipe if you place it on the filter flat directly in front of the turbo centered on the compressor nut.
I ran this setup for years on a tiny 16g DSM turbo I’d spike over 35lbs that likely spun 2x as fast as anything you’ll ever use on a v8. Never had any blade damage. Plenty of atomization. Don’t buy into the kit hype. The prices are ridiculous for something that mists water in your engine. I’ve had a pre turbo setups on a ton of v8 setups. Never saw any sort of blade erosion.
As in it doesn't work or that it doesn't hurt the blades? I thought I read once that the blades collect the mist into droplets and throws it to the walls of the compressor housing pulling the liquid out of the air (aka not do $hit).
As in it doesn't hurt the blades at all. But the ones that are spraying onto the blades are doing a very small amount like 200cc or less which in turn gets things cooled down thru the intercooler but doesn't have a huge build up of fluid that accumulates in the intercooler.
Honestly @ForceFed86 is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to the water/meth stuff. Of all the searches I've done on this site and others about this topic he's usually there on top of it all
Blade erosion is mostly band wagon BS from people with little or no experience. The only way you are hurting the blades is with giant water droplets IE no nozzle at all. Combined w tiny turbos spinning at 100k+ over long periods. Something similar to a small diesel engine. Your 70mm won’t spin fast enough to cause an issue and the nozzles used these days do a plenty good job, even at relatively low pressures. Nothing wrong with using a good pump if ya got it cheap. Its just overkill for 6lbs. And if you spray washer fluid (even at 4gph) at 6lbs it will likely hurt power and response.
Also totally pointless to buy that new fancy sensor if you are going to mist water on it. Water will not evaporate in your charge pipe at your temps. So the sensor will spit back completely useless bunk info. Good for nothing but letting you know the kit is “on”.
Pre turbo increases the eff. of the turbo itself. No other location can do that. No reason not to if you don’t run an intercooler. You also don't need to fight manifold pressure pre turbo. So you will atomize better. Turbo helps atomize as well. You don’t need to worry about the kit siphoning back into your intake/charge pipe if you place it on the filter flat directly in front of the turbo centered on the compressor nut.
I ran this setup for years on a tiny 16g DSM turbo I’d spike over 35lbs that likely spun 2x as fast as anything you’ll ever use on a v8. Never had any blade damage. Plenty of atomization. Don’t buy into the kit hype. The prices are ridiculous for something that mists water in your engine. I’ve had a pre turbo setups on a ton of v8 setups. Never saw any sort of blade erosion.
but your saying at 6lbs don’t even bother even if I’m not running an intercooler as long as I run the 93 fuel right?
I like the idea of the filter inlet as then I don’t need to worry about length to the IAT sensor as much. I did end up getting the RIFE high temp today and just installed it.
so you think no wiper fluid, 93 pump and just let it eat as is. If I want I can spray into the turbo inlet and that could still skew my IAT sensor readings.
As in it doesn't hurt the blades at all. But the ones that are spraying onto the blades are doing a very small amount like 200cc or less which in turn gets things cooled down thru the intercooler but doesn't have a huge build up of fluid that accumulates in the intercooler.
Honestly @ForceFed86 is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to the water/meth stuff. Of all the searches I've done on this site and others about this topic he's usually there on top of it all
gotcha. Smallest nozzle I have is a 2 I think aka 2GPH. I might see what it does with no water meth and 91 or 93 pump and get an idea on IAT temps. Then throw the 2GPH in the air filter and see how it behaves. I’d rather not have it if I don’t need it.
but your saying at 6lbs don’t even bother even if I’m not running an intercooler as long as I run the 93 fuel right?
I like the idea of the filter inlet as then I don’t need to worry about length to the IAT sensor as much. I did end up getting the RIFE high temp today and just installed it.
so you think no wiper fluid, 93 pump and just let it eat as is. If I want I can spray into the turbo inlet and that could still skew my IAT sensor readings.
You should be just fine with 93 at 6 psi. Before I had my meth system plumbed in I was running around 14 psi on Chevron 94 octane pump gas no ethanol in it
but your saying at 6lbs don’t even bother even if I’m not running an intercooler as long as I run the 93 fuel right?
I like the idea of the filter inlet as then I don’t need to worry about length to the IAT sensor as much. I did end up getting the RIFE high temp today and just installed it.
so you think no wiper fluid, 93 pump and just let it eat as is. If I want I can spray into the turbo inlet and that could still skew my IAT sensor readings.
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As with anything performance I'd sneak up on it. But yes, I believe 6lbs would be fine without an IC in most cases if the tune isn't super aggressive. Id run less boost (if possible) and watch the plugs initially. They will tell you how hot the CC is getting. Might also drop the timing down initially as well until you get a good plug read. IMO premium fuel is just one of those musts on any performance car. Even premium pump fuel varies... 87 varies more. Id use a good station like a Shell or Chevron and stay away from teh dinky stations. I stick to premium on any turbo car personally.
As far as skewing your readings... it depends. I ran high boost and made a TON of heat (well over waters boiling point) so I knew it was flashing the small amounts of water to a gas. But yes... for the most part if you are spraying any amounts of water at 6 lbs you will wet the sensor. Be neat to grab a before and after pull with nothing but a sensor change and lay the logs up back to back.
Anyone want to share a 2 bar timing table and a MAT vs timing retard table (Holley if possible) I’m currently
creating a base tube as the car is real close to starting. These are some real rough timing, MAT and AFR tables. I have a 4.6psi spring installed in the WG and I would hope max of 6psi boost. I was trying to keep timing NA up to 4ish psi and then slowly ramp down to 6psi and then drop after that. Non intercooled I would assume 200*F IATs especially with the filter right next to the radiator.
Just a real quick glance gives me a data (point) to critique: Looking across your 175kPa row, I see 18 degrees spark at 4000 rpm. That's a little hot for me.
My stock compression 5.3 has to drop down to 6 degrees for 175kPa in the 4000 - 4400 rpm range-- depending on your camshaft events vs compression ratio, your area of peak torque is VERY likely to need much less timing .
So I got the car running and on the ground. Now I'm working through the small things. I'm having issues with the Hi IAT RIFE Sensor... ugh. I set the table up how they want, input the correct custom IAT table data points and turned the key on. Engine temps in 45-50*F ambient are 49*F from coolant temp reading. IAT was reading 20*F. I started up and engine temp was 70*F after 20-30s and IAT is reading 26*F. I highly doubt the air temp in the motor is 30+*F less than engine temp and ambient.
I've been talking with motion raceworks and I measured the sensor resistance at 226,100 ohms at 49*F engine temp. This should read about 50*F on the sensor according to the chart which is correct. However it's not showing on the handheld or Laptop that way. They suggested that since the sensor is correct its gotta be the ECU, Wiring or calibration and they asked me to flip the calibration chart from how they show it to be reversed. So its high temp to low temp (left to right) and they want me to do it low temp to high temp (left to right). When I pull the sensor plug with the key on the handheld goes from 20*F to 485*F which is the low and max sensor readings on the calibration chart. I then for $hits and giggles plugged in a stock GM screw in IAT sensor and it jumped to 200*F. This makes me think the wiring is fine as its reading resistance. Unless in the wiring its adding resistance to the sensor causing a lower reading. My ECU update is so old that It doesn't have the RIFE sensor drop downs so I have to custom calibrate the IAT.
I'm going to post pics in a sec from my phone.
Hi IAT rife sensor calibration chart Rife hi IAT sensor calibration.
49*F coolant temp rife sensor resistance.
Key on hi IAT ride sensor installed
Rife sensor tune but stock GM IAT sensor
Rife sensor tune but removed rife sensor.
Last edited by customblackbird; Apr 8, 2025 at 09:50 AM.
So I got the car running and on the ground. Now I'm working through the small things. I'm having issues with the Hi IAT RIFE Sensor... ugh. I set the table up how they want, input the correct custom IAT table data points and turned the key on. Engine temps in 45-50*F ambient are 49*F from coolant temp reading. IAT was reading 20*F. I started up and engine temp was 70*F after 20-30s and IAT is reading 26*F. I highly doubt the air temp in the motor is 30+*F less than engine temp and ambient.
I've been talking with motion raceworks and I measured the sensor resistance at 226,100 ohms at 49*F engine temp. This should read about 50*F on the sensor according to the chart which is correct. However it's not showing on the handheld or Laptop that way. They suggested that since the sensor is correct its gotta be the ECU, Wiring or calibration and they asked me to flip the calibration chart from how they show it to be reversed. So its high temp to low temp (left to right) and they want me to do it low temp to high temp (left to right). When I pull the sensor plug with the key on the handheld goes from 20*F to 485*F which is the low and max sensor readings on the calibration chart. I then for $hits and giggles plugged in a stock GM screw in IAT sensor and it jumped to 200*F. This makes me think the wiring is fine as its reading resistance. Unless in the wiring its adding resistance to the sensor causing a lower reading. My ECU update is so old that It doesn't have the RIFE sensor drop downs so I have to custom calibrate the IAT.
I'm going to post pics in a sec from my phone.
Does Terminator X not have the hi iat rife sensor in the drop down menu?? I'm the HP/Dominator software there's one for low and hi
Oh well then upgrade to v3 and that solves that issue
I spoke with Dalton over at Motion raceworks and he said he doesn't recommend using the drop down on the new updates for the RIFE sensor. He said they don't trust them as they have had issues and recommends everyone do the custom IAT table to be sure. He looked over my table and my sensor readings and said the sensor is in the correct resistance and the table is setup correctly but could be a wiring or ECM issue. He doesn't think that updating to the V3 will resolve it.
I spoke with Dalton over at Motion raceworks and he said he doesn't recommend using the drop down on the new updates for the RIFE sensor. He said they don't trust them as they have had issues and recommends everyone do the custom IAT table to be sure. He looked over my table and my sensor readings and said the sensor is in the correct resistance and the table is setup correctly but could be a wiring or ECM issue. He doesn't think that updating to the V3 will resolve it.
Oh really?? I've been using the drop down on mine with the low iat sensor and it seems fine. What kind of issues are they seeing??
Oh really?? I've been using the drop down on mine with the low iat sensor and it seems fine. What kind of issues are they seeing??
He said something about them not being correct or hit and miss. Seems funky to me bc its a really basic table which they do with the factory sensors and supported sensors. Then again I know the base timing tables for the term X are pretty terrible so why haven't they fixed that lol.
I want to do all the recommended changes on the V1, if I don't get anywhere I'll try to update to V3 and test with the drop downs. The issue is the sensor is reading 226,100 ohms which is right around the correct 50*F temp on the chart... but for it to be reading 20* the resistance would need be 300,000 more ohms or 546,977 to read 20*F. So where are the extra 300,000 ohms coming from? I'm gona pull the J1 connector and test Pin 11 and 18 to get sensor resistance at the plug and if it reads that 500k then I know its a wiring issue.
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