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I just got a call from Motion today. They said they were doing internal testing on the RIFE sensor on the holley HP and found similar issues that I'm seeing. They are recalibrating the curve and doing further testing on the HP but also a TermX on a customer car. I should know probably by the end of the week. Likely this has caused them to redo the calibration table data so we could be seeing new data moving forward.
Not sure where you heard you can’t spray much volume pre turbo, but that’s total nonsense. If you run an intercooler, then you limit the amount sprayed pre turbo so it doesn’t condense in the IC and puddle. Otherwise, there is zero reason to run AUX inj anywhere else. Spraying pre-turbo is the only way to up the eff. of the turbo itself. No other location gives you that. So if you don’t run an intercooler, no other location makes sense. You can spray 200gph++ pre turbo no problem, there is no “limit”.
Personally, I’d ditch the blow off valve completely. Its not needed. Turbo “surge” doesn’t hurt the turbo one bit. At least not enough to effect our applications. Maybe if you ran a semi 1 million miles the BOV would help the turbo live a bit longer. I had 180k original miles on my grand national… much smaller turbo spinning much faster than the units we work with these days. No BOV from the factory… But I know a lot of people like them for the sound. Wrapping it would be fine IMO.
You can run any poly tank and it will be compatible with methanol. Mower fuel tanks etc. I prefer the agricultural ones with 4-5” lids. Makes it easy to clean and add fluid. Def don’t need the BS alky tanks they sell with the controllers. Way overpriced.
Gotcha, it's just what I was reading lol. Does the efficiency even matter when I'm running 4-6lbs of boost, this turbo is worth alot more than that. I totally would get it if I was running 25-30lbs and the turbo was out of steam then upping the efficiency and pushing the map to the right makes total sense. I'm really just running this as intercooling so it makes sense to cool the turbo that's heating the air and cooling it as its being heated. I also know that wiper fluid is better for detonation than cooling and I would be better with a 50/50 or 70/30 mix of methanol. I won't run 100%. I love the idea of deleting the BOV but the sound is cool lol. I never thought about deleting the BOV as I just put them in as standard so I bought a 50mm BOV blanking cap so I could just cap the BOV. I guess I could have just bought a new 90* cast coupler but figured I could test it and see if I liked it that way and do back to back IAT temp data logs.
So for the pre turbo mounting your saying just drill and tap the top of the rubber on the K&N and run it that way?
I wasn't referring to the alky tanks lol I would never. The C3 corvette has very little room in the engine bay and the coolant overflow and wiper tanks are tucked away and molded to fit the fenders on the wheel wells. A brand new tank is $40, new neck is $30 thats $70 and $8 for the cap for a plastic tank. I ended up just getting it as I generally just run wiper fluid and maybe 50/50 if I can get it for cheap. It will work fine and its tucked away they way its suppose to be.
I’d say it matters. If you are going to bother with aux inj, why not put it where it will do the most good? Similar to plumbing your turbo inlet in the bay or behind the radiator sucking hot air. It will still make power. Its just not ideal.
Spraying tiny amounts isn’t going to give you any massive seat of the pants gain or drop much off your charge temps. It will pull heat form the CC chamber, and if sprayed pre turbo it bumps the turbo eff a tiny amount due to “wet compression” and cooling the compression process.
Also if you plumb it at the air filter, you have the added benefit of not worrying about the kit draining into your engine when its setting, or if the pump sticks in the “on” position. You also don’t fight the boost pressure like you would spraying in the charge piping. So you get more pressure and better atomization.
Pre turbo inj. Won’t damage anything if done correctly with decent atomization. I’ve been spraying pre-turbo since 2006 in every turbo application ive ever owned and I have never seen any damage. So don’t worry about the turbo.
Using the factory washer tank is always a great idea. Low level light is a life saver too. In my simple setups I use 1gal of -20 washer fluid and 2 bottles of the yellow Heet additive (which is basically 100% meth) This gives around a 50% mixture.
I’d setup some sort of mount centered on the filter, yes.
Last edited by Forcefed86; Apr 16, 2025 at 12:53 PM.
I’d say it matters. If you are going to bother with aux inj, why not put it where it will do the most good? Similar to plumbing your turbo inlet in the bay or behind the radiator sucking hot air. It will still make power. Its just not ideal.
Spraying tiny amounts isn’t going to give you any massive seat of the pants gain or drop much off your charge temps. It will pull heat form the CC chamber, and if sprayed pre turbo it bumps the turbo eff a tiny amount due to “wet compression” and cooling the compression process.
Also if you plumb it at the air filter, you have the added benefit of not worrying about the kit draining into your engine when its setting, or if the pump sticks in the “on” position. You also don’t fight the boost pressure like you would spraying in the charge piping. So you get more pressure and better atomization.
Pre turbo inj. Won’t damage anything if done correctly with decent atomization. I’ve been spraying pre-turbo since 2006 in every turbo application ive ever owned and I have never seen any damage. So don’t worry about the turbo.
Using the factory washer tank is always a great idea. Low level light is a life saver too. In my simple setups I use 1gal of -20 washer fluid and 2 bottles of the yellow Heet additive (which is basically 100% meth) This gives around a 50% mixture.
I’d setup some sort of mount centered on the filter, yes.
Got it. My nozzles have the check valve so I don't have to worry about boost pressure or sucking fluid in. Really like you said its just the pump staying on. How much should I spray? I think I have a 5GPH nozzle as well as the 2GPH I have now. I'll have to check but I Have some AEM nozzles but no holder for those. I also have a shorter non check valve nozzle (snow nozzle) but I assume there will be some kind of vacuum at the filter so better to have that to limit drainage.
I just got a call from Motion today. They said they were doing internal testing on the RIFE sensor on the holley HP and found similar issues that I'm seeing. They are recalibrating the curve and doing further testing on the HP but also a TermX on a customer car. I should know probably by the end of the week. Likely this has caused them to redo the calibration table data so we could be seeing new data moving forward.
Was there any kind of timeline for this new calibration data?? Motion seems to be fairly quick with things so hopefully it wont be long
Was there any kind of timeline for this new calibration data?? Motion seems to be fairly quick with things so hopefully it wont be long
Not a specific date, he hopes to have something to tell me by Friday this week. It sounds like they had the same issues and recalibrated and are now testing. Likely they liked the new data on the HP so they are testing the TermX next. If its good, prob just a simple swap the image on the website with the new values.
Not a specific date, he hopes to have something to tell me by Friday this week. It sounds like they had the same issues and recalibrated and are now testing. Likely they liked the new data on the HP so they are testing the TermX next. If its good, prob just a simple swap the image on the website with the new values.
The pumps usually have a check valve too, but they can fail over time. Esp with high meth blends. I ran a little inline check valve pre nozzle. But I never notice much vac at the filter.
Usually the answer to the nozzle size question is always… spray as much as you can without slowing down. Current setup I only run 8gph total. 4 at each turbo at 20lbs when spraying 50/50.
I tried dual 7’s and it slowed me down a couple mph. Can also turn the boost up to compensate, but you only get away with so much water in the CC in my experience. More the better until you hit that point.
Might not need good fuel with boost that low, but you could run some 100 octane or similar at first. Run with and without the aux inj on. And see how much you can get away with before it slows you down. Draggy works well for this kind of testing.
You can also drill out smaller nozzles as much as needed to spray more without purchasing additional nozzles. I’d bet 5gph will slow you down a tad. 2gph is probably really close. Most nozzles are rated at 100psi. So it flows 2gph at 100psi. But at 250psi it flows 3.16gph
The pumps usually have a check valve too, but they can fail over time. Esp with high meth blends. I ran a little inline check valve pre nozzle. But I never notice much vac at the filter.
Usually the answer to the nozzle size question is always… spray as much as you can without slowing down. Current setup I only run 8gph total. 4 at each turbo at 20lbs when spraying 50/50.
I tried dual 7’s and it slowed me down a couple mph. Can also turn the boost up to compensate, but you only get away with so much water in the CC in my experience. More the better until you hit that point.
Might not need good fuel with boost that low, but you could run some 100 octane or similar at first. Run with and without the aux inj on. And see how much you can get away with before it slows you down. Draggy works well for this kind of testing.
You can also drill out smaller nozzles as much as needed to spray more without purchasing additional nozzles. I’d bet 5gph will slow you down a tad. 2gph is probably really close. Most nozzles are rated at 100psi. So it flows 2gph at 100psi. But at 250psi it flows 3.16gph
How are you figuring out flow rates for different pressures?? Like most nozzles are rated at 100 psi, but what about at 150 or 200 psi?? Anywhere on the interwebs you could point me?? I only ask cause I switched up to Snow performance nozzles and my AEM pump says it's 200 psi but I'd say it probably only goes to like 150-190 psi
How are you figuring out flow rates for different pressures?? Like most nozzles are rated at 100 psi, but what about at 150 or 200 psi?? Anywhere on the interwebs you could point me?? I only ask cause I switched up to Snow performance nozzles and my AEM pump says it's 200 psi but I'd say it probably only goes to like 150-190 psi
You gotta take into account boost pressure in the intake too though right @Forcefed86 ?
Julio was saying with my setup and intended boost pressure I should see around 130-140 psi but every application is different.
So, with twin M15 nozzles at 140 psi I should end up around 35gph of meth flow.
I suck at math so please feel free to check me lol.
I hope its not less than that because I installed a 100psi switch in the system to toggle the EBC to dump boost in the event of system failure.
You gotta take into account boost pressure in the intake too though right @Forcefed86 ?
Julio was saying with my setup and intended boost pressure I should see around 130-140 psi but every application is different.
So, with twin M15 nozzles at 140 psi I should end up around 35gph of meth flow.
I suck at math so please feel free to check me lol.
I hope its not less than that because I installed a 100psi switch in the system to toggle the EBC to dump boost in the event of system failure.
Not when spraying pre-turbo. But yes, if spraying in the charge piping you have to take boost pressure into account for sure. You should be good to go! Julio's stuff is pretty dialed in.
You gotta take into account boost pressure in the intake too though right @Forcefed86 ?
Julio was saying with my setup and intended boost pressure I should see around 130-140 psi but every application is different.
So, with twin M15 nozzles at 140 psi I should end up around 35gph of meth flow.
I suck at math so please feel free to check me lol.
I hope its not less than that because I installed a 100psi switch in the system to toggle the EBC to dump boost in the event of system failure.
Yes I didn't account for that but even so I should be damn close to what you're spraying
you both might be way off. I took snow or AEM's word for it on the meth flow. But there are some differences you should be aware of. Apparently pumps are putting out different pressures. For instance the Snow 300psi pumps don't put out 300psi when you get them, they are detuned to 200psi ish. They are capable of higher pressure but what is the actual pressure? Also what pressures are the nozzles rated at and what version are you dealing with? V1, V2 or V3 they flow differently and at different pressures.
What nozzle are you running and is the flow actually match? I have V1 nozzles for snow and AEM V2 nozzles. I remember testing my snow nozzle on my firebird with the AEM Water meth flow gauge and I was in the 700-750ml flow with my nozzle which I need to check what number it is. I checked my nozzles the other day and I think I'm running the 500cc/min AEM and the snow 300psi which Puts me in the 700/750cc/min flow rate. Word on the street is that the V1 nozzles flow more at the lower size than the V2 probably due to atomization which reduces flow.
What pressure if your pump actually doing? If you have a V2 snow nozzle that is flowed at 100psi what is it doing at 200psi?
If you have a 200psi pump the pressure is probably closer to 100psi operating, a 300psi pump is really 200psi. You can adjust the pressure but it increases the amp draw and can affect the pump operation.
I haven't had a chance to watch this video fully and watch it again to make sure I retain the info but he is basically saying the nozzle flow doesn't match the pump and they don't tell you want the preset pump pressures are and how that affects nozzle output. Also the differences in V1 vs v2 and V3 nozzle design and flow. We might be way off on what we think we are flowing since it sounds like we are based flow rates at different pressures and different versions.
you both might be way off. I took snow or AEM's word for it on the meth flow. But there are some differences you should be aware of. Apparently pumps are putting out different pressures. For instance the Snow 300psi pumps don't put out 300psi when you get them, they are detuned to 200psi ish. They are capable of higher pressure but what is the actual pressure? Also what pressures are the nozzles rated at and what version are you dealing with? V1, V2 or V3 they flow differently and at different pressures.
What nozzle are you running and is the flow actually match? I have V1 nozzles for snow and AEM V2 nozzles. I remember testing my snow nozzle on my firebird with the AEM Water meth flow gauge and I was in the 700-750ml flow with my nozzle which I need to check what number it is. I checked my nozzles the other day and I think I'm running the 500cc/min AEM and the snow 300psi which Puts me in the 700/750cc/min flow rate. Word on the street is that the V1 nozzles flow more at the lower size than the V2 probably due to atomization which reduces flow.
What pressure if your pump actually doing? If you have a V2 snow nozzle that is flowed at 100psi what is it doing at 200psi?
If you have a 200psi pump the pressure is probably closer to 100psi operating, a 300psi pump is really 200psi. You can adjust the pressure but it increases the amp draw and can affect the pump operation.
I haven't had a chance to watch this video fully and watch it again to make sure I retain the info but he is basically saying the nozzle flow doesn't match the pump and they don't tell you want the preset pump pressures are and how that affects nozzle output. Also the differences in V1 vs v2 and V3 nozzle design and flow. We might be way off on what we think we are flowing since it sounds like we are based flow rates at different pressures and different versions.
Yea I've seen that video there's also a test of the AEM v3 nozzles and they show the pump pressure on a digital gauge and it was in the 180+ psi at full tilt
Yes I didn't account for that but even so I should be damn close to what you're spraying
We gonna make some powwwwaaaaa son! @Forcefed86 you'll get a laugh outta this, I started filling my tank yesterday to test the system and noticed a leak.
Come to find out, there was some porosity in the tank design at the corner where the edges meet up.
So, my expensive tank with the cool billet lid leaked immediately lol.
I texted Julio and he's sending me a new tank, he said he hasn't seen that problem with the Vortec tanks in a very long time, told him I just have that kind of luck which I do.
Big differences if flow tho vs pressure. So if you seeing 180psi and the nozzle is rated at 175cc at 40psi what is that nozzle actually flowing?
This is the interesting chart as they slow the v1 nozzles and the comparison of flow. These say they are rated at 40psi… these pumps don’t put out less than 100psi so why even post this info.
you both might be way off. I took snow or AEM's word for it on the meth flow. But there are some differences you should be aware of. Apparently pumps are putting out different pressures. For instance the Snow 300psi pumps don't put out 300psi when you get them, they are detuned to 200psi ish. They are capable of higher pressure but what is the actual pressure? Also what pressures are the nozzles rated at and what version are you dealing with? V1, V2 or V3 they flow differently and at different pressures.
What nozzle are you running and is the flow actually match? I have V1 nozzles for snow and AEM V2 nozzles. I remember testing my snow nozzle on my firebird with the AEM Water meth flow gauge and I was in the 700-750ml flow with my nozzle which I need to check what number it is. I checked my nozzles the other day and I think I'm running the 500cc/min AEM and the snow 300psi which Puts me in the 700/750cc/min flow rate. Word on the street is that the V1 nozzles flow more at the lower size than the V2 probably due to atomization which reduces flow.
What pressure if your pump actually doing? If you have a V2 snow nozzle that is flowed at 100psi what is it doing at 200psi?
If you have a 200psi pump the pressure is probably closer to 100psi operating, a 300psi pump is really 200psi. You can adjust the pressure but it increases the amp draw and can affect the pump operation.
I haven't had a chance to watch this video fully and watch it again to make sure I retain the info but he is basically saying the nozzle flow doesn't match the pump and they don't tell you want the preset pump pressures are and how that affects nozzle output. Also the differences in V1 vs v2 and V3 nozzle design and flow. We might be way off on what we think we are flowing since it sounds like we are based flow rates at different pressures and different versions.
My kit is from Julio at Alky Controls which he designed and uses himself.
He's been in the meth game from the very beginning, so I'm inclined to trust his info.
Unfortunately, I won't be able to run the pressure transducer as originally planned so I won't have that hard data to give you.
Big differences if flow tho vs pressure. So if you seeing 180psi and the nozzle is rated at 175cc at 40psi what is that nozzle actually flowing?
This is the interesting chart as they slow the v1 nozzles and the comparison of flow. These say they are rated at 40psi… these pumps don’t put out less than 100psi so why even post this info.
I run Snow v2 nozzles #14 and #16 and they rate them 14 and 16 gph @ 100 psi. That's right off their website. So using the formula that was posted earlier I figured flow for 150 psi and 180 psi for the two nozzles I'm running
Then I'd have to factor in how much boost it's gonna be up against in the charge pipe. I did try using just a single nozzle as per the Snow chart but it clearly wasn't enough as I could watch my IAT temps climb during a pull. With both I see the temps actually drop but it's not a true temp reading more of just a "Yes the system is spraying" kinda thing
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