Im in the stages of making a CAS style kit for my car. Once i get the 1st one built im going to tool up and made them to sell. The price will be under what CAS charged (6000). I have a machine shop at home and everythings paid for. Witch means my company wont turn out like Incon and CAS....screwing everyone over.


Specs..


Twin garret T3/T4 hybrid turbos

Manifolds made from mild steel and Jet Hot coated (will cure the cracking manifold problem CAS had)

Downpipes made from 321 stainless

All flanges will be 1/2" thick and precision machined, and blanchard ground in house to prevent leaks.

Twin Tial 38mm bypass valves

Tial 50mm blow off valve

all charge pipes will be aluminum

custom intercooler

Is anyone interested in a kit like this?.. once i get them built and ready to sell i will sponsor the website.

I will offer custom anodizing (inhouse) so you can get your blow off valve, bypass valves, and charge pipes looking "show"

 

can you really get the charge/downpipes colored that will hold up to the heat? I've heard that it doesn't work out very well.

 

Your gonna spend the money on 321 for the downpipe where it's not needed, and use mild to bandaid a poor header design?

You're better off making the header out of 321 where the high heat stability is needed, and redesigning the layout to let the header grow instead of crack.

304 is plenty for the downpipe.

 

charge pipes yes (those are the pipes from the throttle body to the turbo) downtube no, ALSO camarogod98 you should look into becoming a sponser or im sure the thread will get locked.

later
Gary

 

I would be VERY interested in a twin turbo kit. Keep me posted as to how it turns out.

 

*waits on matt to produce a turbo kit for the masses* lol

 

Ditto that... One of the biggest issues with using mild steel in the header is that you get some rust/scale on the inside of the tubing which flakes off into the turbo... The reason for the cracking was not that it was stainless... it's because it's a log. Any fabricated log will crack... Just a matter of time. Only way to prolong the inevitable is to do something to allow for the thermal expansion... such as slits in the flange, elongated bolt holes... or something like what buick did (added "bellows" to allow for expansion):

 

I am not interested becuase is just received my brand new CAS TT kit today. Yay fer me!!! I do, although, see some major planning and a lot of work ahead of me before i go and deem this kit worthy. I wish i knew how to weld

I will be posting up some initial thoughts later.

 

What is it about logs that makes cracking inevitable?

 

It's not inevitable but it's probably too hard to make provisions for during production unless you know the tolerances of the metal going from extreme heat to cooling down. I would imagine if the motor torqued from side to side due to bad motor mounts the torqueing could easily crack manifolds at the extreme temps that turbos run at. Expansion is probably the most common reason the metal cracks as it has no relief to do so. This is why not every joe shmoe can make turbo kits. I hope this guy comes through with whatever he is trying to accomplish as the CAS kit looks well planned out but looks like a few corners were cut that could be addressed in another revision.


Greg

 

With the cas kit, start by cutting the flange, between the 3rd and 4th hole. Drill out flange holes 1,2,5,6 to allow for some expansion of the flange . Holes 2 and 5 should be a little larger than 3 and 4 and 1 and 6 a little larger than 2 and 5. Dont wrap the logs in heat tape. Thats my 2 cents.

 

Upon visual inspection the first thing that came to mind was cutting a space between holes 3+4 as that is the only place you really can without risking a huge exhaust leak. How much woud you enlargen the holese? 1/8"?1/4"?


Greg

 

I really think Harlan already nailed it with this:

Basically, think of it this way... As metal is heated it expands. If you have a log, as it is heated, the log expands... and it expands more then the head and flange... so just picture the flange side staying the same as the log expands.... what you get is cracking at the primaries... A header style manifold just grows... Even if it expands or contracts a little unevenly, all the tubes are relatively small and there isn't one large tube overpowering all of the other ones... so it is less likely to crack.

 

I hope it works out for you. I would love for twins to come back and if the price will be reasonable count me in as interested.

 

Not really sure how much by... but IMHO the best way to do it would be to use a die grinder to elongate the hole and not just hog it out with a drill bit. You just want to give the flange space so that when it heats up it doesn't lock against the side of the bolt...

 

the both of you refuse to accept log manifolds can work well with self destructing!

 

agreed, better yet. Id say 1/64th

 

A cast log manifold could survive ;-) Look, there is a place for everything... Log manifolds belong on budget kits... not $6,000 kits. Not for nothing, but I believe Harlan has made a Log manifold turbo kit for an LT1... and I worked with a friend to build a turbo setup on his third gen using the Banks cast log manifolds.... They work... but by their basic nature they are flawed... and I don't think they belong on an expensive buildup.

 

I never said a log can't work. I've built log manifolds before, but not outta thin wall tube. Schedule 10 304 pipe

It's the small triangles created by a log and the primaries that causes the problems. no where for things to move when they expand, so they crack.

Using mild to solve the problem is the wrong answer. Sure it might live on the street, but you'll eventually precipitate the carbon outta the steel from the heat. Then it becomes brittle and falls apart. Not to mention the scale and flaking, we all know that's no good for turbine wheels.

If you're starting from scratch so to speak, make the headers live by giving them room to grow and expand.

 

Incon

They worked real well. Ain't seen a cracked one yet.

Then again, the foundry cost probably contributed to their demise.