Motor and Turbo Ordered, Woohoo
Motor and Turbo Ordered, Woohoo HPE 408 with Callies Crank, Eagle H-Beam Rods, Weisco Pistons, Main Studs, etc.
Phamspeed kit with intercooler with PTE 76 GTS. Can you say insta spool and hella torque. May not be as efficient as a smaller motor but alot of fun none the less. It's more of a drag car so I should be able to put down the torque. Still deciding on heads but leaning toward the smaller ET offerings (255 cc head).
Phamspeed kit with intercooler with PTE 76 GTS. Can you say insta spool and hella torque. May not be as efficient as a smaller motor but alot of fun none the less. It's more of a drag car so I should be able to put down the torque. Still deciding on heads but leaning toward the smaller ET offerings (255 cc head).
Is that short block assembled? What does somethin like that set you back if you don't mind me asking?
Originally Posted by DAPSUPRSLO
HPE 408 with Callies Crank, Eagle H-Beam Rods, Weisco Pistons, Main Studs, etc.
Phamspeed kit with intercooler with PTE 76 GTS. Can you say insta spool and hella torque. May not be as efficient as a smaller motor but alot of fun none the less. It's more of a drag car so I should be able to put down the torque. Still deciding on heads but leaning toward the smaller ET offerings (255 cc head).
Phamspeed kit with intercooler with PTE 76 GTS. Can you say insta spool and hella torque. May not be as efficient as a smaller motor but alot of fun none the less. It's more of a drag car so I should be able to put down the torque. Still deciding on heads but leaning toward the smaller ET offerings (255 cc head).
That's the best part. The shortblock was $4600 plus $250 for shipping. I'm in Maryland in HPE is in Texas. He said the Eagle would be up to the job but I may get greedy in the future.
Originally Posted by bboyferal
That thing's gonna be a monster!
Just curious, what's the bore and stroke on the 408 in inches? How bout the 370?
I am sure your 408 is going to be a monster... it's been said before, there aint no replacement for displacement. You have more potential with more cubes! I would be more concerned about the turbo.... I'd sit down and figure out how many boosted CFM of air you are going to run and check it on the compressor map...
as for the manifolds, I don't know... what's in inside diameter of the primaries and the collector? Generally keeping a sensible size will keep exhaust gas velocity high, which is a good thing.
I am sure your 408 is going to be a monster... it's been said before, there aint no replacement for displacement. You have more potential with more cubes! I would be more concerned about the turbo.... I'd sit down and figure out how many boosted CFM of air you are going to run and check it on the compressor map...
as for the manifolds, I don't know... what's in inside diameter of the primaries and the collector? Generally keeping a sensible size will keep exhaust gas velocity high, which is a good thing.
Originally Posted by DAPSUPRSLO
I hope so. Getting mixed signals. Some think it would have been better to go with a 370 verses the 408 for efficiency reasons. What are your guys thoughts. I think the 408 will spull this turbo super fast and make it fun to drive on the street. The 76 GTS is capable of 1100hp so I would imagine it flows some serious air. Do you think the exhaust side of this turbo with the stock manifolds will be restrictive? Would it be less restrictive with a 370? Thanks.
408: 4" stroke and 4.030" bore
370: 3.622" stroke and 4.030 bore
I'm starting to lean more toward the pte 88 but I'm not sure the phamspeed kit has that as an option anymore. I know the pte 88 won't spool as quick but who cares when the motor is this big and you have a 3000 or higher stall. We'll see.
370: 3.622" stroke and 4.030 bore
I'm starting to lean more toward the pte 88 but I'm not sure the phamspeed kit has that as an option anymore. I know the pte 88 won't spool as quick but who cares when the motor is this big and you have a 3000 or higher stall. We'll see.
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I think you did it right with the 408. You still have a little more bore than stroke (like the original 3.893 x 3.622) so I would not worry about upsetting the originally designed characteristics of the engine.
Did you use anything to pick your turbo? I made a spreadsheet that calculates the CFM of airflow your engine is going to generate with and without boost... it helps you look at compressor maps and decide which turbo is right for you and also has some other cool stuff I didn't design... do you want a copy?
Also, where your turbo starts to boost AND how many CFM of exhaust gas you can push through the turbine (at higher RPM and horsepower) without getting choked up is actually decided by the exducer bore -> that's the inside diameter of the exhaust outlet tube on the turbine that goes into the downpipe. Do you know the exducer bores for the T88 and the GTS76?
I honestly think that 408 cubes is going to make your car plenty fun to drive on the street.... and I'm not so sure if you're going to be totally happy with peak torque (and boost) at 3000rpms. If you're setting this up for the track, wouldnt you want your peak torque somewhere inside your shift points? (I think 4000rpms and 6200rpms with stock gears and an M6) Your 408 cubic inches is going to creat A LOT of CFM of airflow and I am thinking that when you start turning up the boost you're going to start choking the 76GTS.
Did you use anything to pick your turbo? I made a spreadsheet that calculates the CFM of airflow your engine is going to generate with and without boost... it helps you look at compressor maps and decide which turbo is right for you and also has some other cool stuff I didn't design... do you want a copy?
Also, where your turbo starts to boost AND how many CFM of exhaust gas you can push through the turbine (at higher RPM and horsepower) without getting choked up is actually decided by the exducer bore -> that's the inside diameter of the exhaust outlet tube on the turbine that goes into the downpipe. Do you know the exducer bores for the T88 and the GTS76?
I honestly think that 408 cubes is going to make your car plenty fun to drive on the street.... and I'm not so sure if you're going to be totally happy with peak torque (and boost) at 3000rpms. If you're setting this up for the track, wouldnt you want your peak torque somewhere inside your shift points? (I think 4000rpms and 6200rpms with stock gears and an M6) Your 408 cubic inches is going to creat A LOT of CFM of airflow and I am thinking that when you start turning up the boost you're going to start choking the 76GTS.
Originally Posted by DAPSUPRSLO
408: 4" stroke and 4.030" bore
370: 3.622" stroke and 4.030 bore
I'm starting to lean more toward the pte 88 but I'm not sure the phamspeed kit has that as an option anymore. I know the pte 88 won't spool as quick but who cares when the motor is this big and you have a 3000 or higher stall. We'll see.
370: 3.622" stroke and 4.030 bore
I'm starting to lean more toward the pte 88 but I'm not sure the phamspeed kit has that as an option anymore. I know the pte 88 won't spool as quick but who cares when the motor is this big and you have a 3000 or higher stall. We'll see.
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Verdad Gallardo Sure, send the spread sheet over. I have taken a look at the compressor maps for the 88 along time ago but I have some questions and concerns. Do you happen to have a compressor map for the 76GTS? If I was to go with a huge set of heads, huge throttle body, and short runner manifold isn't it going to be alot harder for me to see the same psi most people are with smaller heads and a smaller throttle body etc.? Or will the backpressure induced by the exhaust side of the turbo induce more psi. If I will not be seeing the same psi but still flowing the same amount of air as a higher boost setup won't the turbo become more efficient? Lots of questions but I'm all ears to any suggestions.
SSU'S Vice Mod
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,391
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From: Hazard Co. Maryland
Originally Posted by DAPSUPRSLO
Sure, send the spread sheet over. I have taken a look at the compressor maps for the 88 along time ago but I have some questions and concerns. Do you happen to have a compressor map for the 76GTS? If I was to go with a huge set of heads, huge throttle body, and short runner manifold isn't it going to be alot harder for me to see the same psi most people are with smaller heads and a smaller throttle body etc.? Or will the backpressure induced by the exhaust side of the turbo induce more psi. If I will not be seeing the same psi but still flowing the same amount of air as a higher boost setup won't the turbo become more efficient? Lots of questions but I'm all ears to any suggestions.
When you get finished, you better be making a trip up to cecil co and let me know when you do. Sounds awsome though, good luck.
I got your email address and will send that file out tomorrow since it's on my work computer. You will have to run more CFM of air through your better flowing throttle body, intake manifold and heads to get the same boost as someone with more restrictive components (and a lower volumetric efficiency) however I don't think this will hamper performance. As far as I know, it's all about airflow... think of how they compare your engine to an air pump:the more air it can efficiently pump, the more power you will get. Not sure, I could be wrong on the boost part but I think it's all about airflow.
Originally Posted by DAPSUPRSLO
Sure, send the spread sheet over. I have taken a look at the compressor maps for the 88 along time ago but I have some questions and concerns. Do you happen to have a compressor map for the 76GTS? If I was to go with a huge set of heads, huge throttle body, and short runner manifold isn't it going to be alot harder for me to see the same psi most people are with smaller heads and a smaller throttle body etc.? Or will the backpressure induced by the exhaust side of the turbo induce more psi. If I will not be seeing the same psi but still flowing the same amount of air as a higher boost setup won't the turbo become more efficient? Lots of questions but I'm all ears to any suggestions.
TECH Regular
Joined: Dec 2003
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Sounds like you made the right choice but I would go with a T88. Last time I talk to John he said he could make me a custom kit with a T88 but I would have to bring him the car for the custom 1 5/8" headers, 3" exhaust, 4" downpipe
so you should still be able to get a T88.
I am thinking about the same thing 370 vs 410 plus T88
since I just sold my 410 thats set up for n/a and nitrous
Does anyone know if the 410 would make more peak rwhp then the 370? Been told the 410 would make more peak power and through out the whole power band ....but then some say the 410 will only make more bottom to mid range power and make the same peak? If they make the same peak might as well save the $1,500-2,000 on the 4.000 crank and use that towards the turbo.
so you should still be able to get a T88.
I am thinking about the same thing 370 vs 410 plus T88
since I just sold my 410 thats set up for n/a and nitrous
Does anyone know if the 410 would make more peak rwhp then the 370? Been told the 410 would make more peak power and through out the whole power band ....but then some say the 410 will only make more bottom to mid range power and make the same peak? If they make the same peak might as well save the $1,500-2,000 on the 4.000 crank and use that towards the turbo.
Yeah, they probably work better. The only thing is though that Big Rick's car, from HPE, uses Eagle rods and he's gone as fast as 8.00 at 173 or so mph. That tells me that they work. I wander if they don't last or something.
SSU'S Vice Mod
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Hazard Co. Maryland
Originally Posted by FastKat
I got your email address and will send that file out tomorrow since it's on my work computer. You will have to run more CFM of air through your better flowing throttle body, intake manifold and heads to get the same boost as someone with more restrictive components (and a lower volumetric efficiency) however I don't think this will hamper performance. As far as I know, it's all about airflow... think of how they compare your engine to an air pump:the more air it can efficiently pump, the more power you will get. Not sure, I could be wrong on the boost part but I think it's all about airflow.
You're spot on with that assumption.
tensile load Don't forget, the most damaging and dangerous real loads (not offset by compressive loads) that the con rods experience are tensile (pulling) loads... and that's experienced at TDC. This load is all about the weight (mass) of your piston and con rod and engine speed!! Speed kills!!
The loads that are experienced are at BDC of the combustion stroke are compressive (pushing) loads. You can put a heck of a lot more compressive loads on those rods than tensile loads. Anything forged is going to be fine... but getting the weight of the con rod down.... now that's just all around better.
I think it really depends on how fast you want to wind this thing up... basically, what kind of red line are you shooting for?
The loads that are experienced are at BDC of the combustion stroke are compressive (pushing) loads. You can put a heck of a lot more compressive loads on those rods than tensile loads. Anything forged is going to be fine... but getting the weight of the con rod down.... now that's just all around better.
I think it really depends on how fast you want to wind this thing up... basically, what kind of red line are you shooting for?
Originally Posted by DAPSUPRSLO
Yeah, they probably work better. The only thing is though that Big Rick's car, from HPE, uses Eagle rods and he's gone as fast as 8.00 at 173 or so mph. That tells me that they work. I wander if they don't last or something.