Why isn't there an electrical supercharger???
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
From: St. Paul, MN
Why isn't there an electrical supercharger??? Is it because it would take too much elec. to run? I don't understand this. What if you put an inline fan in the intake (between maf and tb) and just ran it at "x" speed? Wouldn't this do the same as a supercharger???
Re: Why isn't there an electrical supercharger??? Here is the link!! http://www.electricsupercharger.com/ I think if you auto-x it would be good to cool your brakes down with. hehe
Re: Why isn't there an electrical supercharger??? Find a way to put more voltage to it!! But one, see how much voltage it can handle safely and try it. With more voltage it might spin up faster and give more power.. Use a seperate batteries in series or something?
Adkoonerstrator
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 21,420
Likes: 0
From: Deep in the seedy underworld of Koonerville
Re: Why isn't there an electrical supercharger??? [quote]Originally posted by just me:
<strong>ah forget it, it says you need 2 of them in parallel for a 350cube motor.
So that's 600$ for a 4-6% increase in power.
You can buy a nitrous kit for less than that!</strong><hr></blockquote>
BOOST-A-PUMP it Steve <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />
<strong>ah forget it, it says you need 2 of them in parallel for a 350cube motor.
So that's 600$ for a 4-6% increase in power.
You can buy a nitrous kit for less than that!</strong><hr></blockquote>
BOOST-A-PUMP it Steve <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> <img src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" />
On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Re: Why isn't there an electrical supercharger??? ah forget it, it says you need 2 of them in parallel for a 350cube motor.
So that's 600$ for a 4-6% increase in power.
You can buy a nitrous kit for less than that!
So that's 600$ for a 4-6% increase in power.
You can buy a nitrous kit for less than that!
Trending Topics
Re: Why isn't there an electrical supercharger??? i don't know who made them , but 6 years ago i saw an ad in truck'n magazine for a an electric blower. it was a centrifugal type and claimed to increase power output by 30%. i just can't remeber the company's name.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
From: Arcadia, CA
Re: Why isn't there an electrical supercharger??? Someone should develop a really high output alternator to drive a high output electric supercharger.
You'd prolly still see the same parasitic losses as a standard super charger from driving the 'meganator' but the trade off would be the instant full boost from an electric supercharger and no need to pulley up for more boost just feed more juice to the alternator. It would be easier to package the electric supercharger because it wouldn't be restricted by a belt drive, it would have a power cord instead. Then the plumbing for intercooled and non-intercooled systems would be very simple cause you could place the charger in the most convinient spot. You'd even be able to vary the electrical input to the motor of the charger so you can have multiple stages of boost, progressive boost or even be able to barely spin the supercharger enough to resemble NA airflow.
Then again I don't even know if there are compact electric motors capable of this. BUT IT SURE BE DAMN COOL. <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> <img src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" border="0">
You'd prolly still see the same parasitic losses as a standard super charger from driving the 'meganator' but the trade off would be the instant full boost from an electric supercharger and no need to pulley up for more boost just feed more juice to the alternator. It would be easier to package the electric supercharger because it wouldn't be restricted by a belt drive, it would have a power cord instead. Then the plumbing for intercooled and non-intercooled systems would be very simple cause you could place the charger in the most convinient spot. You'd even be able to vary the electrical input to the motor of the charger so you can have multiple stages of boost, progressive boost or even be able to barely spin the supercharger enough to resemble NA airflow.
Then again I don't even know if there are compact electric motors capable of this. BUT IT SURE BE DAMN COOL. <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> <img src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" border="0">
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
From: Green Oak, MI
Re: Why isn't there an electrical supercharger??? Garret is developing and hopefully will come out with a electric turbo setup.
It uses an electric motor to spool the turbo then the exhaust does the rest.
Small motor, BIG turbo and no lag. The motor doesn't do the work, it just helps get the turbine upto speed for the exhaust to take over.
It uses an electric motor to spool the turbo then the exhaust does the rest.
Small motor, BIG turbo and no lag. The motor doesn't do the work, it just helps get the turbine upto speed for the exhaust to take over.
Launching!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: Wallingford, CT
Re: Why isn't there an electrical supercharger??? I had to register here just to reply to this topic.
The short answer as to why there is no electric supercharger is that it would be inefficient to turn mechanical energy to electric, and back to mechanical again, along with the size of the necessary components.
Heres the long answer. A supercharger compressor is a fairly compact unit. It needs about 40 hp (for our applications) to work at redline. So you'd need a 40 hp electic motor to spin it. 40 hp electirc motors are on the large side. You also need the electricity supply to power it. 1 hp is 744 watts, but thats at 100% efficiency. So, you're probably looking at needing 35,000 watts to power it. At 14 volts, thats almost a 2,000 amp alternator, so forget that. You'd need a generator/alternator capable of producing 35,000 watts. This would probably take about 55 hp to run, and would be much larger than the electric motor. Think about it, my house has a 200 amp service. At 120 volts, thats only 24,000 watts.
So the answer is yes, it could be done, but why would anyone bother.
That electric assist to get the turbo spinning sounds very interesting.
The short answer as to why there is no electric supercharger is that it would be inefficient to turn mechanical energy to electric, and back to mechanical again, along with the size of the necessary components.
Heres the long answer. A supercharger compressor is a fairly compact unit. It needs about 40 hp (for our applications) to work at redline. So you'd need a 40 hp electic motor to spin it. 40 hp electirc motors are on the large side. You also need the electricity supply to power it. 1 hp is 744 watts, but thats at 100% efficiency. So, you're probably looking at needing 35,000 watts to power it. At 14 volts, thats almost a 2,000 amp alternator, so forget that. You'd need a generator/alternator capable of producing 35,000 watts. This would probably take about 55 hp to run, and would be much larger than the electric motor. Think about it, my house has a 200 amp service. At 120 volts, thats only 24,000 watts.
So the answer is yes, it could be done, but why would anyone bother.
That electric assist to get the turbo spinning sounds very interesting.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 9,246
Likes: 3
From: Troy, AL
Re: Why isn't there an electrical supercharger??? I agree with everything you just said but you did leave out one small detail. You wouldn't need quite that big of an alternator for short spurts of opertation so long as you had about 1000 lbs of batteries! J/K! <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="graemlins/gr_jest.gif" border="0" alt="[jester]" /> <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
I'm glad this one thread made you register. Now that you're here you might as well become a regular poster. We could use more folks with a good understanding of electricity around here. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
I'm glad this one thread made you register. Now that you're here you might as well become a regular poster. We could use more folks with a good understanding of electricity around here. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,048
Likes: 12
From: Raleigh, NC
Re: Why isn't there an electrical supercharger??? Mark C,
I like your short and long answer technique.
I have to remember that one for long posts. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
... sorta like the Brief Description/Long Description... <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
I like your short and long answer technique.
I have to remember that one for long posts. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
... sorta like the Brief Description/Long Description... <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Re: Why isn't there an electrical supercharger??? Now, if you could magnetize the flywheel, and mount superconductors around it, and induce a high strength computer controlled sequentially shifted Gaussian field to help spin the motor... <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
There used to be one called the SuperPac. Advertised on TNN during shows like Shadetree Mechanic - if my memory serves me correctly (it often does not), I believe they even showed a fourth gen Camaro in the commercial (but NEVER built an application for it). During a little web surfing, it looks like the company is now http://www.turbodyne.com and is still in the business of selling electric blowers. However, by looking at their web site, their point is not to build high RPM boost, but to build boost at off-idle, tip-in, and low partial throttle to improve driveability and emissions, and a mild increase in partial throttle butt-o-meter response. I would not call these guys a 'player' in the power field (as occupied by ATI, Vortech, et al). Their emphasis looks to be on 2.0L engines and below, especially diesels.
I agree about the above post regarding the power requirements - to build something that actually makes boost at WOT would require a signficant achievement in alternator efficiency and packaging. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
-Andrew
There used to be one called the SuperPac. Advertised on TNN during shows like Shadetree Mechanic - if my memory serves me correctly (it often does not), I believe they even showed a fourth gen Camaro in the commercial (but NEVER built an application for it). During a little web surfing, it looks like the company is now http://www.turbodyne.com and is still in the business of selling electric blowers. However, by looking at their web site, their point is not to build high RPM boost, but to build boost at off-idle, tip-in, and low partial throttle to improve driveability and emissions, and a mild increase in partial throttle butt-o-meter response. I would not call these guys a 'player' in the power field (as occupied by ATI, Vortech, et al). Their emphasis looks to be on 2.0L engines and below, especially diesels.
I agree about the above post regarding the power requirements - to build something that actually makes boost at WOT would require a signficant achievement in alternator efficiency and packaging. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
-Andrew
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,324
Likes: 0
From: Corona CA
Re: Why isn't there an electrical supercharger??? Damn, it's been twenty-x years since I took physics, but I'm starting to think this would be a good idea if you set your goals right.
Yes large roots blowers suck tons of power at high boost levels, 15psi up. Keep in mind that running boost up reduces the efficiency of the blower due to alot of the energy is turned into HEAT, which is undesireable to begin with.
If your goal was 30rwhp with a blower, you'd need roughly 1.5 psi of actually plenum boost to get there on an LS1 engine (15psi ~doubles HP, so 1.5 should increase 10% = 30rwhp on a 300rwhp engine). I don't know the exact HP to compress air to 15psi for an LS1, so I'll use the pessimistic number above (40hp). So it will take less than 4hp to get to 1.5psi.
Can you get an electric "underhood" motor to 4hp? It would have to be a high-tech unit. A 4 HP motor is the ~size on a Bridgeport mill. Too damn big. But there are High Performance electric motors used on aircraft that have that kind of continuous duty rating that are of reasonable size. 4 HP is 3000 watts or 222amps at 13.5v. So you are going to need a larger alternator with the kit. But you COULD do it and make ~26 hp (30-4). Would you go through the trouble of installing a blower for 26hp? If it was cheap and easy, I'd see a market for it.
BTW - The Cal State Fullerton AutoX shifter cart uses an electric supercharger. But it's only 600cc. It DOES work though. That ***** hauls ***.
Yes large roots blowers suck tons of power at high boost levels, 15psi up. Keep in mind that running boost up reduces the efficiency of the blower due to alot of the energy is turned into HEAT, which is undesireable to begin with.
If your goal was 30rwhp with a blower, you'd need roughly 1.5 psi of actually plenum boost to get there on an LS1 engine (15psi ~doubles HP, so 1.5 should increase 10% = 30rwhp on a 300rwhp engine). I don't know the exact HP to compress air to 15psi for an LS1, so I'll use the pessimistic number above (40hp). So it will take less than 4hp to get to 1.5psi.
Can you get an electric "underhood" motor to 4hp? It would have to be a high-tech unit. A 4 HP motor is the ~size on a Bridgeport mill. Too damn big. But there are High Performance electric motors used on aircraft that have that kind of continuous duty rating that are of reasonable size. 4 HP is 3000 watts or 222amps at 13.5v. So you are going to need a larger alternator with the kit. But you COULD do it and make ~26 hp (30-4). Would you go through the trouble of installing a blower for 26hp? If it was cheap and easy, I'd see a market for it.
BTW - The Cal State Fullerton AutoX shifter cart uses an electric supercharger. But it's only 600cc. It DOES work though. That ***** hauls ***.
