Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 331
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From: Pleasanton, CA
Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C (Folks, I did post this on LS1.com as well, not trying to be a post wh***, just trying to get as much detailed info as I can). See below >>
I know everyone hates this question, but I could really use SPECIFIC info on the two options I've arrived at. I know the turbos are an option, the Powerdyne, etc - but I've narrowed it to these two below so that's what I'm looking for feedback on. Thanks in advance!! >>
1. Vortech V-9 SQ & Aftercooler (air/water)
2. ATI Procharger 8+ psi tuner kit w/ upgrade to D-1SC (I could go for the 7 pounds with P-1SC, but the flexibility of the tuner is nice).
My issues with Vortech - I hear from most install shops that the ATI is the better kit...made better, more powerful, more flexible, more horsepower, etc. I keep hearing the Vortech grenades, the belts slip and jump off, the air/water isn't as good as air/air, it is more for show than for go, etc...
My issues with ATI - I hate the way it looks. After spending several thousand dollars I don't like a cheap box up top with rubber hoses running to it. (I'm not trying to offend you ATI guys, it is just me personally that dislikes the look of the ATI). I have no issues with ATI except the way it looks, but are there other issues I should know? I've heard some cars run hot, the idler pulley wears, and some other little stuff.
I use my car as much for show as I do go. I take it to the strip, but I don't get too wrapped up with that. I've got the money to part with, I've got some good deals being offered from sponsors, and I have a shop that can/will install either.
What to do??? Please help push me over the edge one way or the other...
Thanks again,
Mike M
I know everyone hates this question, but I could really use SPECIFIC info on the two options I've arrived at. I know the turbos are an option, the Powerdyne, etc - but I've narrowed it to these two below so that's what I'm looking for feedback on. Thanks in advance!! >>
1. Vortech V-9 SQ & Aftercooler (air/water)
2. ATI Procharger 8+ psi tuner kit w/ upgrade to D-1SC (I could go for the 7 pounds with P-1SC, but the flexibility of the tuner is nice).
My issues with Vortech - I hear from most install shops that the ATI is the better kit...made better, more powerful, more flexible, more horsepower, etc. I keep hearing the Vortech grenades, the belts slip and jump off, the air/water isn't as good as air/air, it is more for show than for go, etc...
My issues with ATI - I hate the way it looks. After spending several thousand dollars I don't like a cheap box up top with rubber hoses running to it. (I'm not trying to offend you ATI guys, it is just me personally that dislikes the look of the ATI). I have no issues with ATI except the way it looks, but are there other issues I should know? I've heard some cars run hot, the idler pulley wears, and some other little stuff.
I use my car as much for show as I do go. I take it to the strip, but I don't get too wrapped up with that. I've got the money to part with, I've got some good deals being offered from sponsors, and I have a shop that can/will install either.
What to do??? Please help push me over the edge one way or the other...
Thanks again,
Mike M
Re: Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C Hi Mike,
The ATI is a super easy install to do yourself. The hardest part is taking the crank pulley bolt out.
The Vortech I hear is a pain. This is only if you are doing yourself.
The ATI has a cleaner appearance than the Vortechs I've seen. The Vortech S/C is up top and looks pretty shabby IMHO. Plus access to the top of the engine is restricted by the S/C and plumbing if I remember right.
With the ATI it is on the bottom and out of the way. Everything like plugs and wires are easy to access.
Get the polished plenum with the BMR SS radiator cover to spice it up go here
www.jeremybazan.com/topview.jpg
Heres my black plenum with the BMR radiator cover looks pretty sharp.
Power from what I've seen these kits put up the numbers, I am still breaking in my headunit so I have no numbers yet and I can only get 5-6psi out of it so far.
Belt tightening and slippage seems to be a problem with this kit tho, I don't know about the vortech.
Hope this helps a little, just my .02
Jeremy B
The ATI is a super easy install to do yourself. The hardest part is taking the crank pulley bolt out.
The Vortech I hear is a pain. This is only if you are doing yourself.
The ATI has a cleaner appearance than the Vortechs I've seen. The Vortech S/C is up top and looks pretty shabby IMHO. Plus access to the top of the engine is restricted by the S/C and plumbing if I remember right.
With the ATI it is on the bottom and out of the way. Everything like plugs and wires are easy to access.
Get the polished plenum with the BMR SS radiator cover to spice it up go here
www.jeremybazan.com/topview.jpg
Heres my black plenum with the BMR radiator cover looks pretty sharp.
Power from what I've seen these kits put up the numbers, I am still breaking in my headunit so I have no numbers yet and I can only get 5-6psi out of it so far.
Belt tightening and slippage seems to be a problem with this kit tho, I don't know about the vortech.
Hope this helps a little, just my .02
Jeremy B
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Pleasanton, CA
Re: Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C Jeremy, that's exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for - BIG THANKS!
The addition of the radiator cover makes a big difference, great suggestion. Is your black box metal, or is it the nylon (kinda like plastic) version?
All others, still interested in your input. I appreciate your time...
Mike M
The addition of the radiator cover makes a big difference, great suggestion. Is your black box metal, or is it the nylon (kinda like plastic) version?
All others, still interested in your input. I appreciate your time...
Mike M
Re: Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C Had my Vortech 9psi w/aftercooler for 2 yrs now. I know the ati procharger is a superior kit, with its self lubrication, air to air dual intercoolers and no cutting of the hoods for installation. But I will tell you that the Vortech looks way better and when I pop my hood, jaws drop.
It really makes a statement, especially if you get the straight cut gears as they offer that now you get the whine. Along with a lopey cam, FlPs or Mac midlengths or whatever headers you chose thats all you really need if you want show and go.
If I could do it all over again and Incon didnt rip everybody off thats the route I wouldve taken, couldve kept my Mecham hood too. Vortech and ATI its a toss up, ATI for performance though. The D-1SC is a serious unit, my wimpy G-trim will only support another 2 psi safely without exceeding the impeller speed. Although I do hear of a few Vortech owners with 2.65 13 psi pulleys without problems.
If your not planning on making a 9-10 sec street car out of it and want a little attention just get the Vortech and be done with it. If you want 700rwhp get the ATI.
It really makes a statement, especially if you get the straight cut gears as they offer that now you get the whine. Along with a lopey cam, FlPs or Mac midlengths or whatever headers you chose thats all you really need if you want show and go.
If I could do it all over again and Incon didnt rip everybody off thats the route I wouldve taken, couldve kept my Mecham hood too. Vortech and ATI its a toss up, ATI for performance though. The D-1SC is a serious unit, my wimpy G-trim will only support another 2 psi safely without exceeding the impeller speed. Although I do hear of a few Vortech owners with 2.65 13 psi pulleys without problems.
If your not planning on making a 9-10 sec street car out of it and want a little attention just get the Vortech and be done with it. If you want 700rwhp get the ATI.
Re: Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C Oh yeah no problems to date, and 13k miles have passed. Heres my set up...
HP
98 TA (red)www.efiunlimited.com
Vortech w/aftercooler, thunder cam, Mac headers w orp chromoly pushrods K@N
Mcleod streetwin, Moser 12 bolt w/3.73s, B&M ripper
Mac subframes, PA racing kmember a arms, adj.pan.rod, LCAs, LG springs, Bilstein shocks 1LE front swaybar
Dynabatt, Taylor 10.4mm wires, LS1 edit,Harlan shiftlight(6500rpm)
AFS ZR1 vette 17x9.5,17x11 rear
Suncoast hood, chrome badges LS1, WS7, chrome side vents
sound deadening,spare,jack,backseat,removed
weight after chromoly motor mounts 3430
G-tech pro, JL audio 10 in stealth box, 150 watt kicker impulse amp
500rwhp445rwtq (7 psi, 92 octane, 190 F-hawaii)
11.9@119 1.8 60ft (et streets,crappy track)
.95 lateral Gs (G tech pro)
HP
98 TA (red)www.efiunlimited.com
Vortech w/aftercooler, thunder cam, Mac headers w orp chromoly pushrods K@N
Mcleod streetwin, Moser 12 bolt w/3.73s, B&M ripper
Mac subframes, PA racing kmember a arms, adj.pan.rod, LCAs, LG springs, Bilstein shocks 1LE front swaybar
Dynabatt, Taylor 10.4mm wires, LS1 edit,Harlan shiftlight(6500rpm)
AFS ZR1 vette 17x9.5,17x11 rear
Suncoast hood, chrome badges LS1, WS7, chrome side vents
sound deadening,spare,jack,backseat,removed
weight after chromoly motor mounts 3430
G-tech pro, JL audio 10 in stealth box, 150 watt kicker impulse amp
500rwhp445rwtq (7 psi, 92 octane, 190 F-hawaii)
11.9@119 1.8 60ft (et streets,crappy track)
.95 lateral Gs (G tech pro)
Re: Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C Mike,
It is the metal box, I guess they went to the nylon(plastic) box not too long after I got the kit.
I see importdestroyers point too, to see a supercharger up top is cool <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
All I get when I pop the hood is "man that box(plenum) really fits under there" or "wheres the supercharger" lol
BUT let me tell you my rumpity rump B1 cam with MACS w/off road Y with Loudmouth combined with the loud whine of my D1 does get the attention. SO it still can go both ways.
I like the fact that I didn't have to pop a hole in the oil pan, but I still have to buy the oil from ATI every once and a while. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
J
It is the metal box, I guess they went to the nylon(plastic) box not too long after I got the kit.
I see importdestroyers point too, to see a supercharger up top is cool <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
All I get when I pop the hood is "man that box(plenum) really fits under there" or "wheres the supercharger" lol
BUT let me tell you my rumpity rump B1 cam with MACS w/off road Y with Loudmouth combined with the loud whine of my D1 does get the attention. SO it still can go both ways.
I like the fact that I didn't have to pop a hole in the oil pan, but I still have to buy the oil from ATI every once and a while. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
J
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From: the moon
Re: Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C Vortech kit looks more impressive IMO.But thatis very subjective.
Anybody that see's my motor is very impressed with the system though.
Vortech comes with a 400$ Dual ring SFI approved ATI super damper.
Procharger uses stock damper.
Vortech uses 8 rib and spring loaded auto tensioner with composite idler that does not wear.
Procharger uses 6rib, manual tensioner and idler that wears out.
Vortech uses all aluminum ducting.
Procharger uses a mix of aluminum and cheap Big Truck radiator hoses for ducting.
Vortech uses small G-trim unit.
Procharger uses much larger P or d trim unit.
Vortech uses engine oil system for lube.
ATI self contained.
Vortech uses water charge cooler which is heavy and complicated.
Procharger uses nice twin air-air intercoolers.
Now, I have a friend who just proved the ATI intercoolers and ducting are a pressure drop on even a 400hp N.A. motor.
Breathing NA through the ati ducting and twin coolers but no blower shows a 2" vacuum and dropped his 30-100mph times by 2 seconds.
This means blower energy is wasted.
The vortech water cooler may be just as restrictive, I don't know though as I don't use one.
I have been able to make close to 700 FLWHP so far with my non intercooled vortech and have no troubles making 11-12psi and I have a lot left in it still.
It's pretty modified however so can't be used for any comparisons.
The major advantge with the ati kit is the unit itself, which is a big advantage.
It will support more power than the g-trim vortech. No question.
But for some reason you don't see that many ati guys making anywhere near it's power potential. ALL IMHO.
Steve
Anybody that see's my motor is very impressed with the system though.
Vortech comes with a 400$ Dual ring SFI approved ATI super damper.
Procharger uses stock damper.
Vortech uses 8 rib and spring loaded auto tensioner with composite idler that does not wear.
Procharger uses 6rib, manual tensioner and idler that wears out.
Vortech uses all aluminum ducting.
Procharger uses a mix of aluminum and cheap Big Truck radiator hoses for ducting.
Vortech uses small G-trim unit.
Procharger uses much larger P or d trim unit.
Vortech uses engine oil system for lube.
ATI self contained.
Vortech uses water charge cooler which is heavy and complicated.
Procharger uses nice twin air-air intercoolers.
Now, I have a friend who just proved the ATI intercoolers and ducting are a pressure drop on even a 400hp N.A. motor.
Breathing NA through the ati ducting and twin coolers but no blower shows a 2" vacuum and dropped his 30-100mph times by 2 seconds.
This means blower energy is wasted.
The vortech water cooler may be just as restrictive, I don't know though as I don't use one.
I have been able to make close to 700 FLWHP so far with my non intercooled vortech and have no troubles making 11-12psi and I have a lot left in it still.
It's pretty modified however so can't be used for any comparisons.
The major advantge with the ati kit is the unit itself, which is a big advantage.
It will support more power than the g-trim vortech. No question.
But for some reason you don't see that many ati guys making anywhere near it's power potential. ALL IMHO.
Steve
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Bellevue, Wa
Re: Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C Good points Steve.
Especialy about the dampener and tensioner. Little things make the difference.
I know if I ever get wacky I will be mimicking you and find a 6lb non aftercooler vortech kit and pulley up!
Already have the supporting cast ready <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Especialy about the dampener and tensioner. Little things make the difference.
I know if I ever get wacky I will be mimicking you and find a 6lb non aftercooler vortech kit and pulley up!
Already have the supporting cast ready <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: MS.
Re: Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C get the ati. the self contained oil should be enough. don't you love to have a part you can install on your own and enjoy the fact that you did the work yourself. not to mention the saved install $'s
TECH Fanatic
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From: BLOOMFIELD, NY
Re: Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C i got the vortech with intercooler. it was a pain to install buy it can be done all buy your self in a day or 2. As for me i would not go with vortch i had lots of problems with my oil leaking in differnt spots. Im still trying to find a way to make my own system for it. I hate running the hot engin oil through it. Here is a question what were some of your intak temps with use of an intercooler. My usual temp is around 100f. but after a few passese at the track it still gets up to around 114 degrees f.(the ice melts ) How about you ATI guys.
Re: Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C I dont know about the intercoolers being that inefficient but when I had them with my lil powerdyne (8or900cfm)
6psi blower, it dropped the boost to 5psi and held it there to the 6400 rpm redline not too bad I was figuring I would lose 2psi or more. The dual 2.5 piping adds up to 5inchs of non restrictive hoses. But thats my math and I'm not an expert.
Compared to my D1 @1400 CFM
The ATI is simple, all you have to do is get the belt tensioning right which is a pain in the a$$.
The Vortech guys all make great points and still are. Give us ATI guys some time with the ATI and you will see the big numbers out of these kits, vortech has had there kit out for 2.5 years, so thats some time to mess with them to get them tuned right. Just look at their numbers
I hope to be one of them....who'da thunk I would make 428.8rwhp/461rwtq @5psi with a powerdyne on a 97 degree day?
J <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
6psi blower, it dropped the boost to 5psi and held it there to the 6400 rpm redline not too bad I was figuring I would lose 2psi or more. The dual 2.5 piping adds up to 5inchs of non restrictive hoses. But thats my math and I'm not an expert.
Compared to my D1 @1400 CFM
The ATI is simple, all you have to do is get the belt tensioning right which is a pain in the a$$.
The Vortech guys all make great points and still are. Give us ATI guys some time with the ATI and you will see the big numbers out of these kits, vortech has had there kit out for 2.5 years, so thats some time to mess with them to get them tuned right. Just look at their numbers
I hope to be one of them....who'da thunk I would make 428.8rwhp/461rwtq @5psi with a powerdyne on a 97 degree day?
J <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
Re: Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C No coin toss needed, as a Vortech owner I can tell you the ATI kit is superior. But the Vortech looks better. And you said it yourself, looks are every bit a concern as performance for you. So just get the damn Vortech and be done with it!
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From: San Antonio Texas
Re: Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C im thinking about installing a s/c myself in the future. From what im reading, the air to air intercooler is much better method of intercooling (which would probably cause a great reduction in engine detonation would would be better in the long run) and the procharger is easy to install so thats another bonus.
As far as looks under the hood, I wouldnt really care THAT much. Even if I did, whats ugly about have a supercharged engine?
everyone knows that ATI is new but it is dominating already.
As far as looks under the hood, I wouldnt really care THAT much. Even if I did, whats ugly about have a supercharged engine?
everyone knows that ATI is new but it is dominating already.
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: N. CA
Re: Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C I am happy with what I have... to each his own.
vetterdstr <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Corvette]" title="" src="graemlins/corvette.gif" />
vetterdstr <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Corvette]" title="" src="graemlins/corvette.gif" />
10 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,755
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From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Re: Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C Vortech should offer the T-trim as an upgrade. It can fit under the WS6 hood (you use the hump on each side, one for the aftercooler + the other for the blower). Thats what I think they will have to do to keep up.
Re: Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C Yeah vortech does offer the T trim as an upgrade but they want a pretty penny for the upgrade. I would get the T trim, but I dont on plan on running more than 11psi anyways. If I was gonna run 15-20 psi I would have to get the T trim.
But the car will remain a streetable car, which means I dont have room for a 55 gal drum of Toulene or Xylene in my apartment. And no one serves 104 octane at any of the gas stations over here in Hawaii either. On top of that Im moving to regulated to death CA in early 04.
Gonna have to make more power without increasing boost more than 2 psi. And then theres the issue of the T56, it isnt indestructable. At 500rwhp currently, Im knocking on the door.
But the car will remain a streetable car, which means I dont have room for a 55 gal drum of Toulene or Xylene in my apartment. And no one serves 104 octane at any of the gas stations over here in Hawaii either. On top of that Im moving to regulated to death CA in early 04.
Gonna have to make more power without increasing boost more than 2 psi. And then theres the issue of the T56, it isnt indestructable. At 500rwhp currently, Im knocking on the door.
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Pleasanton, CA
Re: Racking my brain - ATI vs Vortech S/C Hey guys, thanks a bunch for all the input. It's good to have two solid choices! It looks like I'll go with the ATI tuner kit, and that will give me some growing room with future mods. I know the pro's and con's complements of these boards and input from folks like yourself, and the ATI fits me better right now. But man I wish it came with nice metal ducting - if the top looked as good as the fittings down around the intercoolers, I'd be perfectly happy!
Mike M
Mike M